TWC Modding Awards Winners 2009

[DAVIDE]

Err, Davide, did you see EB anywhere except as promising mod for M2:TW? It surprisingly got very little love here you have to admit.

Did you see the Peninsula Italica, EOR, IBII etc. etc. etc. things too?

In the past when i and other people criticized the way to vote things as this year, at the time (not in 2009/10) i posted the difference of textures between a mod that won the best textures award and another one that won anything (a so called niche-product). And guess what? the loser mod had better skins not only for units but for landscapes too.. obviously making a comparison between the 2 mods via screenshot, the same thing/battlemap/units with the same angle for each mod.

ooohooh

[Zarax]

You should also see the other side of the coin though.

By jury vote you would see lots of backslash from users, not to mention that the judges integrity would be put in question.

You cannot choose modders as they would be accused of pushing their own products and you cannot choose people with no modding skills as they wouldn't be good technical judges.

So, how do you do it and keep everybody happy?

[Bardo]

Hey, thank you very much to all people who voted me and lotr-tw. No matter if they were fanboys or not, it is an honour to see my name near renowned modders like Aradan, Wlesmana, Sqυιd, Makanyane, RedFox, HouseOfHam, Tone, florin80, Mr.Blackadder, PatricianS, etc
Sorry if I have not voted, I did not even know about the awards, but I know about the work of many of the winners, and I agree it is deserved.

[Pat89]

I object every year the procedure pre and after man. Since when i participated here as Rtw Rcb modder and texturer in 2005/2006

Do you only object or do you contribute as well?

AL and all others have likely done a lot of work trying to improve the awards. As you might have noticed, a lot has changed since last time... Ok, maybe it wasn't perfect, but as AL already mentioned, they're working already on improving it for next year. So either help them to make things better (for example with suggestions rather than objections) or simply be a bit more patient until they fixed it for you

[DAVIDE]

You should also see the other side of the coin though.

By jury vote you would see lots of backslash from users, not to mention that the judges integrity would be put in question.

And a fanboy vote does? How many times in the past (not this year), people were usual to receive private messages like "hey im blablabla i made teletubbies mod blablabla, vote for me and i'll vote for you?" or simply "hey remember me? im asjsajsaj, i need your vote blablabla"

??????????????????????????????


At least a jury is not so corruptible as you think it could be

You cannot choose modders as they would be accused of pushing their own products and you cannot choose people with no modding skills as they wouldn't be good technical judges.

Someone external to make the judge. Werent pc magazines around usual to review home-made twc mods in the past? you are Italian and for sure you remember how many twc mods as EB, RS, TATW, FATW etc. etc. etc. has been reviewed since total war games are existing.

[DAVIDE]

Do you only object or do you contribute as well?

AL and all others have likely done a lot of work trying to improve the awards. As you might have noticed, a lot has changed since last time... Ok, maybe it wasn't perfect, but as AL already mentioned, they're working already on improving it for next year. So either help them to make things better (for example with suggestions rather than objections) or simply be a bit more patient until they fixed it for you

Have the fanboy voters played all these mods with the same accuracy?

Kingdoms: Hosted Modifications
Medieval II: Hosted Modifications

i doubt that

[florin80]

I frankly think there should be a compulsory twc party pooper award for this sort of aftermath behavior. There`s a time for everything, and the time to propose a new awards format isn`t exactly now. Nor is this really the place. As I`ve said, you`re only hitting the winners with this. Wait a bit, go to the proper forum and participate in the discussion to change the format and rules.
EDIT: besides, who do you call fanboy voters really? Many modders voted in these awards whether you like the result or not.

[DAVIDE]

EDIT: besides, who do you call fanboy voters really? Many modders voted in these awards whether you like the result or not.

Whats the % of modders on the globality of twc? 4% more or less? the rest's made by common people who tried 1,2,3,4 mods and decided to focus their minds just on one (selected on the basis of personal preference as theme, era etc. etc.) as everybody does. Me included. But how could you know that a niche-mod you havent played because of many factors, have worse/better modding parts than another one you played? you could not know it if you havent tried them too at the same manner.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Well speaking of fanboys....I'm one of many mods here, but did not participate in the vote this year. Though I can say some of the "Fan boys" did cast their votes in a knowledgeable fashion ....

Yes it's true that votes have been cast w/o sampling all the entries. But as in everyday life, for the most part sampling all entries is just not feasible.

[makanyane]

Hey, thank you very much to all people who voted me and lotr-tw. No matter if they were fanboys or not, it is an honour to see my name near renowned modders like Aradan, Wlesmana, Sqυιd, Makanyane, RedFox, HouseOfHam, Tone, florin80, Mr.Blackadder, PatricianS, etc
Sorry if I have not voted, I did not even know about the awards, but I know about the work of many of the winners, and I agree it is deserved.

@ Bardo, Hiya, glad to see you here and very pleased you're happy with result! I'm remarkably embarrassed to have competed with you in scripting vote, as would happily acknowledge that most of things I ever did in scripting were borrowed and adapted from you, HouseOfHam or others....



@ others ; as to the idea of getting a group of 'neutral' modders to assess each mod and determine technical excellence, whilst that sounds good in theory finding anyone 'neutral' that would be prepared to dedicate that much time to it would be huge problem.... having been involved on periphery of this on occasion I can assure you that just figuring out who / what is actually eligible consumes as much time as I'd ever be prepared to dedicate to it...

and anyway the awards are now phrased as 'favourite' rather than 'best' which acknowledges that as well as any technical excellence, the popularity of the mod is also relevant.

[Killerbee]

Hey, thank you very much to all people who voted me and lotr-tw. No matter if they were fanboys or not, it is an honour to see my name near renowned modders like Aradan, Wlesmana, Sqυιd, Makanyane, RedFox, HouseOfHam, Tone, florin80, Mr.Blackadder, PatricianS, etc
Sorry if I have not voted, I did not even know about the awards, but I know about the work of many of the winners, and I agree it is deserved.

Lol, bardo, you're so much better than I am

You're a genius scripter man !

But it does touch my ego, though

@ others ; as to the idea of getting a group of 'neutral' modders to assess each mod and determine technical excellence, whilst that sounds good in theory finding anyone 'neutral' that would be prepared to dedicate that much time to it would be huge problem.... having been involved on periphery of this on occasion I can assure you that just figuring out who / what is actually eligible consumes as much time as I'd ever be prepared to dedicate to it...

I agree a jury would be good, but I don't think there are many people who have played all mods .

[Zarax]

Whats the % of modders on the globality of twc? 4% more or less? the rest's made by common people who tried 1,2,3,4 mods and decided to focus their minds just on one (selected on the basis of personal preference as theme, era etc. etc.) as everybody does. Me included. But how could you know that a niche-mod you havent played because of many factors, have worse/better modding parts than another one you played? you could not know it if you havent tried them too at the same manner.

That's life Davide.
It is also true that not all mods are brought up by fanfare and advertising, you may want to remember good old XGM.

It was born as a small niche mod that added a few units and traits to GCS, players liked it because it was a niche mod and tried to keep (and still does today) the vanilla feeling.
It became quite popular just through word of mouth and constant improvement, not to mention DBH's always extremely nice attitude towards both players and modders.

With time it grew up in what it is today and it spawned several submods and at least 2 major mods, DTW and XC.
XGM main virtue has always been it's playability, but do you think a jury with mostly technical criteria would have seen that easily?

[DisgruntledGoat]

Every year there is someone that calls into question the popular vote. What preturbs me to a great extent, considering I am usually part of that popular vote, is that there is some sort of implication that because something is popular means it is of lesser worth. Last year it happened when myself and Danova were precieved as the popular choice where as others, less popular, were left off lists (not nominated) and it was unfair blah blah blah. The mods that have become popular are popular for a reason. Do not place blame on the system or cast a disparaging eye at those who are typically placed at the top of the pile by their peers as everyone who won was deserving.

Jealously is so unbecoming of people.

[Pat89]

I agree a jury would be good, but I don't think there are many people who have played all mods .

lol - That Jury would be made up of Tony83, Tony83 and Tony83

But can't there be both a jury and a public vote? A jury for the technical bit and a public vote for the popularity bit...

(but this is probably the wrong place to discuss this - sorry )

[DAVIDE]

That's life Davide.
It is also true that not all mods are brought up by fanfare and advertising, you may want to remember good old XGM.

It was born as a small niche mod that added a few units and traits to GCS, players liked it because it was a niche mod and tried to keep (and still does today) the vanilla feeling.
It became quite popular just through word of mouth and constant improvement, not to mention DBH's always extremely nice attitude towards both players and modders.
With time it grew up in what it is today and it spawned several submods and at least 2 major mods, DTW and XC.
XGM main virtue has always been it's playability, but do you think a jury with mostly technical criteria would have seen that easily?

Ancient Greece is always popular on players preferences. If im a Greek fanboy and i have to vote between a Graecocentric mod and a Maori-theme's one, who do you think i m going to vote?

[DAVIDE]

The mods that have become popular are popular for a reason. Do not place blame on the system or cast a disparaging eye at those who are typically placed at the top of the pile by their peers as everyone who won was deserving.

Jealously is so unbecoming of people.

A mod can be popular according to many factors my friend, not only for the skill of modders:

1) Theme: a Graecocentric player has the attitude to play and vote just Graecocentric mods. Of course they play other kind of things too.. but not with the same accuracy and will of mods reguarding Greece, even if about completely different eras, location etc. etc. etc.
2) Popularity of argument you're going to treat: Rome and his legions, Greece and hoplites, Lotr books and movies etc. etc. etc. etc.

to these ones add this one below too:

4) The voters did not test or install the 100% of mods present in the twc.


How could they know, "Ghana tw" is worse than "Teletubby Legions of Plastic" (a blockbuster mod), if they never installed or tried the first one?

[DisgruntledGoat]

You seem to be forgeting that these are NOT the "Best of" awards. But "Favourite" awards. Aka the People's Choice Awards of the TWC. Not everyone can be expected to play EVERYTHING. Get over it all already.

I really am starting to hate people that complain about popularity with the TWC. Continuing to imply they are better but because they are not popular they get the raw end of the deal. If these mean so much too you make yourself popular, don't throw on other people because you are jealous of the exposure they get.

[Tony83]

lol - That Jury would be made up of Tony83, Tony83 and Tony83

But can't there be both a jury and a public vote? A jury for the technical bit and a public vote for the popularity bit...

(but this is probably the wrong place to discuss this - sorry )

Lol - how the hell did I get dragged into this? I couldn't even figure out the new voting system. And not a single candidate was wearing speedos!

[DAVIDE]

You seem to be forgeting that these are NOT the "Best of" awards. But "Favourite" awards. Aka the People's Choice Awards of the TWC. Not everyone can be expected to play EVERYTHING. Get over it all already.

And what this has to do with compiling phase etc. etc. etc.? A good nothing. If things are working as you're saying, the part about "mod work compiling phase" etc. etc. etc. has no reason to exist. Simply because people knows in advance what they'll vote. As you well said: Not everyone can be expected to play EVERYTHING.

I really am starting to hate people that complain about popularity with the TWC. Continuing to imply they are better but because they are not popular they get the raw end of the deal. If these mean so much too you make yourself popular, don't throw on other people because you are jealous of the exposure they get.

In a democracy people are free to protest whatever they want, if they do not violate the rules.

[Pat89]

Lol - how the hell did I get dragged into this? I couldn't even figure out the new voting system. And not a single candidate was wearing speedos!

You must be the only one that played all mods