Revised Victory Conditions for RR/RC

[Loose Cannon]

Well, I agree that capturing 70 provinces is a bit of a chore and that once I have 30 provinces I find the AI unable to compete with me but you should leave the long campaign the way it is. If you want to make the short campaign capture & hold 18 regions (the most suggested by CC and supercargo) and outlive a faction or two that would be fine.

[Point Blank]

I hear you, not sure which way I'll go yet.

In fact, I'd recommend, when playing BGR at the moment, that the short campaign is chosen, because its much more demanding - taking a few provinces can be quite a campaign.

[Gorrrrrn]

With 2TPY I'd recommend keeping the original VCs as an option, with 900 turns - 30 or 40 regions isn't going to last long.
(I got to 28 by T250.)
Another factor - the AI also has VCs - it's possible some of the really big factions (usually Fatimids, Khwarezm, Kievan_Rus) might well get to their VC before the human player.
(Can AI factions have different VCs?)

[Caesar Clivus]

(Can AI factions have different VCs?)

I'm pretty sure there can only be one set of VCs.

[Tomato_Sandwich]

With 2TPY I'd recommend keeping the original VCs as an option, with 900 turns - 30 or 40 regions isn't going to last long.
(I got to 28 by T250.)
Another factor - the AI also has VCs - it's possible some of the really big factions (usually Fatimids, Khwarezm, Kievan_Rus) might well get to their VC before the human player.
(Can AI factions have different VCs?)

But the bigger factions can simply be given harder VCs that would be relatively as hard as those for a smaller faction. They dont all have to be given the same number of regions to control do they? if they do just make sure they need to take more settlements by giving them certain settlement objectives that require the acquisition of more regions to get to them. right?

[Gorrrrrn]

T_S - true - as long as we work out which factions are going to end up being the largest.

[Tomato_Sandwich]

From experience a few spring to mind. Eygpt always does, thats a sure bet. Mongols too. Byzantines maybe? Not sure about HRE. But surely its basicly just the ones that are super powers from the beginning that need worrying about?

[Germanicu5]

How about we script winning conditions for player and AI?

Then we can have whatever we like for AI and human player. It'd work like this (I have a frame in mind, I haven't written a script for my Achievement Mod (WIP) yet, but it's the easiest thing): we set some event counters connected to literally anything we can script and we make victory movie pop up as another event while blocking regular victory conditions.

My proposal is: usual stuff (regions held etc) + use of existing code (so firing some counters via Spoils of War mod - this'd require human player to get X heroic victories) + acquire some ancillaries/traits (more info about planned achievement system here ) + participation in crusade/jihad + maybe capturing the target +marrying a princess etc.
As for AI - I'd settle with giving them some tough, but achievable conditions.

Regards

P.S. If victory conditions for each faction can be worked out, I'll gladly work on scripts, since it's in my plans anyway.

[Tomato_Sandwich]

Is there nothing you cant script Germanicu5!?! thats sounds good really though. is it possible to script having to build certain buildings?

[Galain_Ironhide]

I am very excited at the potential this has for the game. I especially liked Germanicu5 idea.

[Point Blank]

Awesome idea G5

[gracul]

Actually since the player is shaping his own empire, he shouldn't be restricted too much by the victory conditions.
Also i dislike when there something in the game in the INFO box showing up, but its not so in reality - you wont be able to put a "must join a crusade" in the info box, or other things.
And do the victory conditions for the AI really count? i mean, can the AI "win" the game in a way you get the 'defeated' screen?
AFAIK the only thing which counts for the AI is the outlive faction and some hard coded higher invasion priority on VC regions.

Its just that for a global campaign like in SS there is just no point in specific conditions. Thats what i think, tho.

[Germanicu5]

@gracul

I've been playing TW series for 10 years and I get bored when I have 30 regions max (mainly because I know I can't loose), I'd really like to see some additional factors influencing victory.

I've already thought about conditions info - additional box would fire along classic one via event. Relevant text would appear based on current progress.
As for AI victory conditions - they're just something that can be done, but doesn't really have to. For instance loosing player's capital 3x would trigger such thing. Or getting bad rep/pope relations in conjunction with some other factors.

Besides, RPG-like conditions can be triggered by yes/no event and we can form an alternative campaign along classic one.

Regards

[Point Blank]

Latest version has some VC changes, but it will be an evolutionary thing.

[JorisofHolland]

Yes, it would be great. But it wouldn't "count" as an official victory, like when you complete a campaign in the current version? (who cares anyway) + rep for the idea!

[Germanicu5]

I could try to make it "official" by toying with outliving some factions (I'm wondering what happens if I kill all TO/Jerusalem/Papal States characters).

It's not that necessary though, I'd just connect proper screenie to normal victory - it'd state "blah blah you proved your worth, but now it's time to show real qualities of a leader blah blah go kill some more people).

Regards

[Point Blank]

Sigh, why can't things just be more like M1TW???

[Sir Walter]

Sigh, why can't things just be more like M1TW???

That was the best game ever once... and I played it after the release of M2TW, my dad found it in a skip

My suggestions below:

England
Regions: London, York, Caen, Dublin, Inverness.
Outlive: Scotland, France.

France
Regions: Paris, Caen, Marseilles, Bordeaux, Lyons, Toulouse, Rennes.
Outlive: England.

Norway
Regions: Bergen, Oslo, Visby, Arhus, Lund, Skara, Nyköping.
Outlive: Denmark (England seemed to stretch them slightly, perhaps Scotland?

Denmark
Regions: Arhus, Visby, Lund, Nyköping, Stettin, Skara.
Outlive: Norway, Holy Roman Empire.

Poland
Regions: Krakow, Thorn, Stettin, Hrodna, Prague.
Outlive: Lithuania, Hungary/Holy Roman Empire.

[Point Blank]

Very TATW-ish.

[Sir Walter]

Very TATW-ish.

What does that mean? (I know what TATW is, but I don't understand the phrase.)