Why are the Crusader States such crap?

**~~OneArmedScissor~~** · February 15, 2010, 05:57 AM

In every single one of my late era games in 6.2, the Crusader States are absolutely worthless.
They literally just sit in a despondent state of misery on their crummy island of Rhodes and whatever that other dump of an island is (Cyprus?). The do absolutely nothing but dick around on their islands.

Moreover, they never get invaded. As such, they are in a perfect position to expand in any direction with impunity. Seriously, every SS player should invade the Crusader States as soon as possible to put these

heel jaundice scorned losers out of their misery as soon as possible.

**Kameraden** · February 15, 2010, 06:37 AM

Your eyes are full of hate, OneArmedScissor.. That's good. Hate keeps man alive, it gives him strenght...
But aren't they crappy also in 6.1? At least they get destroyed quite quickly.

**gluteus maximus aurelius** · February 15, 2010, 07:36 AM

I feel your pain OneArmesScissor. In my curent Byzantine campaign I tried to turn them into a superpower by giving them incredible amounts of money (through cheating obviously), and do you know what? They still got their asses kicked. 30000 a turn for 40 turns and they still got beaten, even with all the crusaders heading for cairo they still could not beat those damned fatimids. Now they live in peace on Cyprus, where my fleets protect them from invasion (they're my allies as well you see).

**PerXX** · February 15, 2010, 07:39 AM

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering..

**Galain_Ironhide** · February 15, 2010, 07:59 AM

I don't know if it is unique to RC/RR compilation, however in my TO campaign the Fatamids sailed across the sea and kicked the Crusader States' sorry asses off Cyprus and Rhodes, thus eliminating them. The fatamids also sailed into Sicily and sieged me there too. Lucky I was the owner of that island or else the Pointy hatted man might of been getting the eviction notice from Rome.

**DeMolay** · February 15, 2010, 08:17 AM

Don't want to sound boring , but in real life , Jerusalem was lost in 1244 , excommunicated HR Emperor Frederick got it back by diplomacy but it didn't last long , then eventually the crusaders had to retreat to Nicosia and a few decades later , the largest/richest order was dismantled in 1307 (templars) . From that point there was no more latin kingdoms in the holy lands .

So what the OP described in his campagn is pretty historically accurate . besides their ennemies (fatimids /seljuks/mongols ) are very powerful and much richer , and since the AI auto resolves battles , it's never going to be easy for them to hold until late era .

**JorisofHolland** · February 15, 2010, 08:22 AM

It's pretty much a miracle they survive in Late Campaign. Only five territories to fight the endless hordes of the Fatamids, though I must say they hold their ground well quite often. They only loose settlements to Jihads, most of time. And that's before I join the fun, of course.

**~~OneArmedScissor~~** · February 15, 2010, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by DeMolay

Don't want to sound boring , but in real life , Jerusalem was lost in 1244 , excommunicated HR Emperor Frederick got it back by diplomacy but it didn't last long , then eventually the crusaders had to retreat to Nicosia and a few decades later , the largest/richest order was dismantled in 1307 (templars) . From that point there was no more latin kingdoms in the holy lands .

So what the OP described in his campagn is pretty historically accurate . besides their ennemies (fatimids /seljuks/mongols ) are very powerful and much richer , and since the AI auto resolves battles , it's never going to be easy for them to hold until late era .

what is a video game?

**~~OneArmedScissor~~** · February 15, 2010, 08:39 AM

uhhh... look... with the 1450 and the 1350 campaigns, they only start with two islands.
idk wtf you are talking about

**JorisofHolland** · February 15, 2010, 08:58 AM

You should have said you play RR/RC, it changes to whole point of view. Also, Late = 1220-whatever, not the 1450 campaign. Explains why everyone has a different opinion.

Back on topic: you should just give them some time. If you truely want them to become active, you might give them a settlement you conquered nearby to provoke war between them and someone else. But most of time they will attack someone before turn 100, IIRC. Or they will be attacked, at least they were expanding rapidly in my campaign.

**~~OneArmedScissor~~** · February 15, 2010, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by JorisofHolland

You should have said you play RR/RC, it changes to whole point of view. Also, Late = 1220-whatever, not the 1450 campaign. Explains why everyone has a different opinion.

Back on topic: you should just give them some time. If you truely want them to become active, you might give them a settlement you conquered nearby to provoke war between them and someone else. But most of time they will attack someone before turn 100, IIRC. Or they will be attacked, at least they were expanding rapidly in my campaign.

read the OP

6.2 hurf durf

**Ichon** · February 15, 2010, 01:00 PM

I am not sure why they are in 1450 campaign honestly... they were not a regional power or much of a local one either at that point. I think the 1450 campaign was not completely finished to the degree of the other campaigns. I'd rather their faction slot was opened to another power. Mughals aren't in 1450 are they? Been awhile since I started a 1450 but I am sure that slot could be better used and without Mongol invasion there is plenty of possible factions in the eastern part of the map.

**JorisofHolland** · February 15, 2010, 02:04 PM

That's not the way things work in the CA world. The limmit of factions is 30 (or 31) and by not putting a faction in one of the campaigns, you don't free up a slot.

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

read the OP

6.2 hurf durf

Do you mean 6.2 includes the 1450 campaign? I thought RR/RC added it

**Caesar Clivus** · February 15, 2010, 03:21 PM

There is an RR/RC forum for a reason...

Moved

**Ichon** · February 15, 2010, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by JorisofHolland

That's not the way things work in the CA world. The limmit of factions is 30 (or 31) and by not putting a faction in one of the campaigns, you don't free up a slot.

Do you mean 6.2 includes the 1450 campaign? I thought RR/RC added it

What? Not sure what you mean... if there is 30 slots and one of those is used by Crusader States to add another faction you could drop Crusader States. Just like 6.1 dropped Ireland to add Timurids in 6.2 I think was that added faction at least.

**Rat-tail** · February 15, 2010, 04:54 PM

The Crusader States are an excellent faction and a great challege to play ... just not played well by the A.I. .

The have are not in any area ( Archers, Calvery or Armored men) but the land that the start in. The must face a Jihad and have no nearby Allies.

If an AI that plays better will come along they would show what a power they are.

( I won a long spirited game using them ... so I am bias

)

**Point Blank** · February 15, 2010, 07:04 PM

Because the 1450 campaign is pretty much hacked together. If I ever get time to do it, 1370 campaign will be historically accurate and will fix such issues.

**Concrete** · February 16, 2010, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by PerXX

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering..

And suffering leads to kickass powers somehow.

**Siddyus** · February 16, 2010, 08:04 PM

Just give those damn crusaders some more regions. Then they will survive through the ages. You merely gave them money but that wont really solve anything. Since their recruitment are still pretty much limited. More regions. More troops. Pure pwnage.