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Thread: Galleons really?

  1. #1

    Default Galleons really?

    Trade Galleons are massively over powered. Today in a test battle i lost as an admirals 3rd rate to a pirate galleon. Granted i handled the third rate poorly but still. To be historically accurate Galleons should have their reload times increased dramatically as they were not gunships but boarding platforms. Also pirates should not be able to build a ship that can challenge a Ship of the line head to head. Their are several historical examples of English frigates taking treasure galleons as prizes. Also can anyone clarify what exactly the stats mean i mean a galleon has "370 Firepower" im unsure what that means except that it has more fire power than a 2nd rate SOL but 20 less guns is that fire power per gun like a galleon has bigger guns? which would be accurate since the Spanish had 36pdrs not found in most other navies. However they didn't train their crews to reload they were expected to fire one volley then close and board.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Galleons really?

    Also does anyone find wind doesn't have enough of an effect i used to play age of sail two and in that game i found wind probably had to much of an effect it could take 5 5 or 10 min to tack so you almost always had to wear when you wanted to change tack but in this it seems it doesnt even matter who hold the weather gauge you can cross tack in in like 15 seconds.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Galleons really?

    Galleons are definitely overpowered.. frigates are supposed to take them but I always seem to get hammered if I try and take on more than one with one frigate..
    Nobody expects the Imperial Inquisition

  4. #4

    Default Re: Galleons really?

    I've noticed too when you simulate a battle you can loose half a fleet against 1 Galleon. But there not overpowerred when you fight them on a battle map;

  5. #5
    Tim1988's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Galleons really?

    Quote Originally Posted by wiskey78 View Post
    Trade Galleons are massively over powered. Today in a test battle i lost as an admirals 3rd rate to a pirate galleon. Granted i handled the third rate poorly but still.
    Sorry mate, but you must've done something wrong to lose that battle. In my experience, a galleon rates somewhere inbetween a 4th and 5th rate in terms of strength, but with less maneuverability. A third rate and above should be able to outshoot it quite easily, whilst a fifth rate can use its better range and maneuverability to cripple it with chainshot.

    When I first started playing the game, I too found them overpowered (assumed that frigates should be able to easily take on trade ships leading to the loss of most of my early caribean navy). However, once you've played them a bit, you can spot their weakness (manouverability and speed) and use this to beat them.

    As for the wind issue, I too used to love Age of Sail 2 and think that it dealt with wind direction far better than Empire does. However CA thinks that it is "too hard" for people to understand that ships wont move if you point them into the wind, and so decided to leave out this feature.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Galleons really?

    you can take a gelleon with a 3rd rate if you get down wind dis-mast it and rake it no problem. Or if you go broadside to broadside and sink it but try to to take it like nelson would head in hit it a few times on the way in close to grape fire a few volleys and board you'll lose. There is no reason a 3rd rate should have to out run and maneuver a trade ship

  7. #7
    dutch81's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Galleons really?

    These 'trade ships' however could also be easily converted to 'war ships' by simply adding cannon and this was regularly done in this time period ... but when used to transport cargo they would simply remove some cannons ... but having all those gun ports could intimidate a pirate ship looking for easy pickings. Galleons and Fluyts for the UP are fine as they are ... as long as you use some strategy other then going broadside to broadside with them they are plenty vunerable ... combat, be it naval or land does not have to be made easier!

  8. #8
    Dracula's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Galleons really?

    In reallity galleons had 16, 20, 32, 44, 52, perhaps very rarely 60 guns. Again it depends on the epoque, time it was built and the country. So when you compare it to a frigate or lower rate line ships, this has to be taken in mind, as well as that the first line ships had around 30 cannons. It's a question of when exactly in time you want to position the comparison. I am afraid in the game reality is chosen a late era galleon to represent all the galleon class. Same goes for the frigates as the earliest ones didn't have more than 20 cannons.

    As for the speed and maneuverability, in real conditions that didn't depend so much on the ship type, but what it was accomodated for at the moment and how it was handled. You don't take cargo, put extra cannons, carry only ammunition and get additional musquteers in the crew - and you get a war galleon, that can successfully fight a line ship /the common line ship class started from 44 - 56 guns/.

    There hasn't been a standartised line ship or galleon. Diff countries produced diff versions with diff sizes, ammount of guns and armament. It is generally agreed however, that the line ship is an evolved version of the galleon type /which itself is very varied/ with less cargo space favouring maneuverability. It means however that the difference is not that big, and a big and heavily loaded line ship could be outmaneuvred by an unloaded and not carrying too much ammunition normall or war galleon.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Galleons really?

    Quote Originally Posted by dutch81 View Post
    These 'trade ships' however could also be easily converted to 'war ships' by simply adding cannon and this was regularly done in this time period ... but when used to transport cargo they would simply remove some cannons ... but having all those gun ports could intimidate a pirate ship looking for easy pickings. Galleons and Fluyts for the UP are fine as they are ... as long as you use some strategy other then going broadside to broadside with them they are plenty vunerable ... combat, be it naval or land does not have to be made easier!
    But if it really was a trade ship engaged in trade, they would never have enough men to man those guns, and they would be a mismatch of weak, aged pieces. So the firepower of trade ships in-game (pirates aside) is still inappropriate. The whole point of a Fluyt, especially, is that is carried very few guns, yet they gave it more than the indiamen, which was frequently powerful.

  10. #10
    hessia78's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Galleons really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maturin y Domanova View Post
    But if it really was a trade ship engaged in trade, they would never have enough men to man those guns, and they would be a mismatch of weak, aged pieces. So the firepower of trade ships in-game (pirates aside) is still inappropriate. The whole point of a Fluyt, especially, is that is carried very few guns, yet they gave it more than the indiamen, which was frequently powerful.
    I think the tradeships need to be rebalanced. There should be a Merchantman type ship which is the generic trade ship for most of the faction weak, somewhat slow but are cheap to build and upkeep and can bring decent amount of tradegoods.
    The Fluyt should have far fewer guns than the current ingame version but to make up the loss of the firepower the Fluyt is now the Dutch replacement of the Merchantman and can bring far more tradegoods per ship than any other tradeship.
    The Indiaman should have the amount of gun upgraded to what was previously given to the Fluyt allowing them stand up to anything below a 5th rate however this means that Indiamen should be more expensive to build and upkeep and probally require a more advanced trade port to build than Merchantmen.
    Galleons should have their cannons reduced to 52, also their reloading skill and accuracy need be reduced to 28 this way they can still be the strongest tradeship but would be slightly more balanced. Also pirates should not be allowed to build these instead they can only capture them from Spain this way pirates are less troublesome in the beginning and mid game but can become real nuisance if they are let to survive to the late game.

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