Ask Your Questions Here!

[Beorn]

logically low lever archer (may be shared by rhovanion?), some forest spearmen and the Beornings Axe Dudes. IIRC there have been mentioned a couple of Eotheod-originated units from Framsburg? At least one of them will be cav.

[athanaric]

I said that we'd like to have Elves not recruiting mercs, [...]

Why not? What's the rationale behind that? At least, Elves should be able to recruit Mannish auxiliaries, since they're short on manpower.

If by skirmishers you mean lightly armoured javelin-armed units, they don't get any (not sure if it's such a good weapon in that kind of terrain).

I don't think the terrain would be a problem for light skirmishers, but if they don't fit with the faction design you have in mind, it's no biggie. It'd be good though if every faction had at least one unit capable of dealing damage to oliphaunts. In the last version of FATW I played (admittedly a long time ago), I had problems dealing with them when playing Rohan (and IIRC as Rhûn as well) in custom battles.

[Thangaror]

Javelins are a weapon that is highly effective in every terrain. Also it is simple, cheap and quite effective, which is why it has been in use in pretty much every culture for most of history.
Though often accurate on historical matters, Tolkien doesn't give the javelin the treatment it deserves. FATW plays along with it, which per se is fine, though sometimes I do miss skirmishers.

[Aradan]

Why not? What's the rationale behind that? At least, Elves should be able to recruit Mannish auxiliaries, since they're short on manpower.

It feels like a very un-elvish thing to do, hiring troops (including Men of Darkness) for money. If we had faction-specific mercs, we could maybe add an Elven Loyalists merc unit with 0 cost and small size/low replenishment, in order to help the Elves boost their ranks, but since BI works with universal merc availability...


WRT javelins: It's also a matter of faction characterization. Since we are not bound by strict accuracy rules when it comes to units (unlike historical mods), a good way to define/enhance each faction's identity is through the use of specific weapons/unit types. We've generally used javelins for less advanced cultures, where irregular warfare would be more common, and for plainsfolk (Rhovanion, Harad, Harondor).

If a unit is defeatable only by a specific other unit type (and not, say, by a combination of a number of other types), then that's a problem we need to address by editing that unit, not by changing every faction's roster. Sure, some units should be better countered by specific opponents, but defeating them without those specific opponents should also be possible, even if costlier.

[Elphir of Dol Amroth]

A couple of faction-related questions mostly:

Should the Harondor faction be considered as an evil or good faction? Or something in between? They have the possibilty to become Cultic right? But at the same time you would think that with Gondorian influence they might be less evil to the men of the west compared to the Empire of Harad?

A question about the Rhovanion faction as well, what kind of inhabitants do they consist of? Are they men who migrated to Rhovanion from Dale and surrounding lands? Or do they consist of migrating Rohirrim? Or perhaps a mixture of both or something else entirely?

Apparently there are now two Easterling factions, could you tell me the difference between the current one (Chiefdom of Rhun) and the new one?

What factions start out or have the capability to acquire a strong fleet? In the New Shadow the only two factions who start out with a strong fleet are the RK and Harad, Adunabar has the possibility to get a strong fleet if they conquer lands around the sea. Rhun, Rohan and Dunland can't have strong fleets. But what about the new factions? I would imagine that the Elves (certainly at Lindon) have a strong fleet as well? But are there any other factions? Tharbad looks interesting in that regard and what about Dorwinion? And Dale (through lake-town mostly)? Which leads to a second question, will the sea-battles mainly be focused on the great sea, or will the Sea of Nurnen and the Sea of Rhun play a more active role in that department as well (in the New Shadow it's only really useful for trade through the ports). I would imagine that especially the Sea of Rhun could give some interesting battles between Dorwinion and the Easterlings on sea? And what about battles in rivers? In the New Shadow it's only through the Anduin that sea-battles are really possible, will other rivers be expanded to allow for sea-battles in DOM?

As for the Elven faction, which well-known Elven-lords would still be around at the time of the mod? Are Thranduil, Celeborn, Elladan and Elrohir and Cirdan still included, or would they have left by now?

The Dwarves of the Ered Rhun, are they part of one of the four tribes of the Eastern Dwarves or are they an outpost for the Longbeards in the same way as Aglarond?

Finally, and I understand this will always be a subjective thing and it's probably far to late to change anything either, but I wonder about some of the factions you have exluded. In particular Umbar, wouldn't that have made a far more interesting faction than Far Harad and Harondor? Would also show the difference better between the Corsair sea-battle way of fighting and the more land-orientated Haradrim. Also, Dol amroth would've been nice, but I guess that makes the RK to weak, or wouldn't work well with the AI? Princedom of Ithilien as well, but I can forsee that they will be crushed rather easily being sandwiched by Adunabar the RK and Harondor.

[Feanaro Curufinwe]

Should the Harondor faction be considered as an evil or good faction? Or something in between? They have the possibilty to become Cultic right? But at the same time you would think that with Gondorian influence they might be less evil to the men of the west compared to the Empire of Harad?

The Fourth Age is rather "grey", so to speak. The only completely evil faction I can think of is a theoretical full-on Cultic Adûnabár.

Finally, and I understand this will always be a subjective thing and it's probably far to late to change anything either, but I wonder about some of the factions you have exluded. In particular Umbar, wouldn't that have made a far more interesting faction than Far Harad and Harondor? Would also show the difference better between the Corsair sea-battle way of fighting and the more land-orientated Haradrim. Also, Dol amroth would've been nice, but I guess that makes the RK to weak, or wouldn't work well with the AI? Princedom of Ithilien as well, but I can forsee that they will be crushed rather easily being sandwiched by Adunabar the RK and Harondor.

The team would have made Umbar into a faction if they could, but they've ran out of faction slots. Why should Dol Amroth or Ithilien be their own factions?

[Aradan]

A couple of faction-related questions mostly:

Should the Harondor faction be considered as an evil or good faction? Or something in between? They have the possibilty to become Cultic right? But at the same time you would think that with Gondorian influence they might be less evil to the men of the west compared to the Empire of Harad?

The good/evil distinction doesn't quite apply. If you really have to label a faction in some sort of binary way, then Harondor is a Men of Darkness faction. They do have some dunedanic influence, which is mirrored in their alignment. And no, they cannot (officially, as a state) convert to the Cult.

A question about the Rhovanion faction as well, what kind of inhabitants do they consist of? Are they men who migrated to Rhovanion from Dale and surrounding lands? Or do they consist of migrating Rohirrim? Or perhaps a mixture of both or something else entirely?

They are a mix of locals, Northmen from Dale, Woodmen and Easterlings.

Apparently there are now two Easterling factions, could you tell me the difference between the current one (Chiefdom of Rhun) and the new one??

North Rhun is less advanced and more infantry based (specializes in axemen), the Chiefdom of Rhun is the more developed of the two.

What factions start out or have the capability to acquire a strong fleet? In the New Shadow the only two factions who start out with a strong fleet are the RK and Harad, Adunabar has the possibility to get a strong fleet if they conquer lands around the sea. Rhun, Rohan and Dunland can't have strong fleets. But what about the new factions? I would imagine that the Elves (certainly at Lindon) have a strong fleet as well? But are there any other factions? Tharbad looks interesting in that regard and what about Dorwinion? And Dale (through lake-town mostly)? Which leads to a second question, will the sea-battles mainly be focused on the great sea, or will the Sea of Nurnen and the Sea of Rhun play a more active role in that department as well (in the New Shadow it's only really useful for trade through the ports). I would imagine that especially the Sea of Rhun could give some interesting battles between Dorwinion and the Easterlings on sea? And what about battles in rivers? In the New Shadow it's only through the Anduin that sea-battles are really possible, will other rivers be expanded to allow for sea-battles in DOM?

Elves, RK, Adunabar, Tharbad, Harad are (or can become) major naval powers, with Dale being somewhere between those and the rest of the factions. The role of navies is generally limited in Tolkien, largely due to the map as well. The lower course of the Anduin and Greyflood up to Tharbad are navigable. Ship-building is possible in the Seas of Nurn and Rhun, but only smal ships can be built there and given the limited amount of provinces involved, naval conflict there is more limited. Generally the AI in DoM performs rather will when it comes to naval invasion, Harad, Harondor and RK launch invasions from/to Tolfalas, Harondor, Belfalas, Lebennin, so there's quite some action there.

As for the Elven faction, which well-known Elven-lords would still be around at the time of the mod? Are Thranduil, Celeborn, Elladan and Elrohir and Cirdan still included, or would they have left by now?

This is still to be finalized, but we're leaning towards having only Thranduil at game-start, with Cirdan as an abstract presence 9since he's supposed to be there to take the very last ship). Elladan, Elrohir and Celeborn are supposed to have left.

The Dwarves of the Ered Rhun, are they part of one of the four tribes of the Eastern Dwarves or are they an outpost for the Longbeards in the same way as Aglarond?

Aglarond no longer exists, but yes, Ered Rhun is supposed to be a new Longbeard colony.

Finally, and I understand this will always be a subjective thing and it's probably far to late to change anything either, but I wonder about some of the factions you have exluded. In particular Umbar, wouldn't that have made a far more interesting faction than Far Harad and Harondor? Would also show the difference better between the Corsair sea-battle way of fighting and the more land-orientated Haradrim. Also, Dol amroth would've been nice, but I guess that makes the RK to weak, or wouldn't work well with the AI? Princedom of Ithilien as well, but I can forsee that they will be crushed rather easily being sandwiched by Adunabar the RK and Harondor.

Dol Amroth and Ithilien are not factions. They are powerful nobles of the realm, not independent or semi-independent vassals. If we had extra slots, we would have considered Umbar, but it would create other problems. Without Umbar, the Empire of Harad faction is not really an empire and it's not a very powerful faction either, with only 4-5 desert provinces. Umbar would be a relatively weak faction with 4-5 coastal provinces as well, not really threatening to RK (AI cannot do much only with naval invasions) and it couldn't expand without coming into conflict with Harad, which is supposed to be a vassal or at least an ally. It is Umbar that makes the Empire the enemy that it is. Having them merged together creates a strong regional power that can unite Haradwaith and can threaten RK/Adunabar on both land and sea.

[Elphir of Dol Amroth]

The Fourth Age is rather "gray", so to speak.

Yeah, you are right about that, Dunland for example I wouldn't really call evil either, yet they are enemies of Rohan. What I really meant was are they against the men of the west, or do they favour them a bit more than the Empire of Harad would?

The team would have made Umbar into a faction if they could, but they've ran out of faction slots.

True, but they did found space for a Harondor faction or a Far Harad one for example. I personally would've deleted one of those and used Umbar instead, but that's my personal preference. Maybe there is a lore-specific or game-play specific reason why the team hasn't done so. Just wondering why a somewhat more distinctive faction (Umbar being more sea-orientated compared to Harad's land operations), is not chosen ahead of Far Harad or Harondor.

Why should Dol-Amroth or Ithilien be their own factions?

Well, first of all they are epic factions. :p Unit-wise and perhaps game-play wise as well they would be more interesting than others, or at least I assume they could be. I prefer them above certain other factions, but again, that is just my feeling about it and I have no idea what would be better for game-play. Normally you would include them as part of the RK, but with the whole Adunabar rebellion I don't feel like it's entirely out of the question that these factions would also become more independent. With Ithillien it's probably not practical because of their location, which would make them extremely hard to play, and being from the line of the Stewards they would perhaps feel obliged to follow/serve their rightful king (Cemendur in the mod). Dol Amroth could give an interesting faction though, more orientated on sea-battles and invasions through sea. I won't pretend to know much about the lore that goes on behind this mod, but is it that impossible that these houses had to chose a side in the civil war between the RK and Adunabar, couldn't they have been neutral and chose to do their own thing?

[Elphir of Dol Amroth]

And no, they cannot (officially, as a state) convert to the Cult.

Okay, I thought they could, have looked it up now, so it's Adûnabâr, Harad, Rhûn and Dunland.

North Rhun is less advanced and more infantry based (specializes in axemen), the Chiefdom of Rhun is the more developed of the two.

Interesting, is that based on the new kind of Easterlings who used axes on the Pellenor Field? So the Chiefdom of Rhun will remain the faction who has wains and lots of Cavalry alongside its infantry?

Elves, RK, Adunabar, Tharbad, Harad are (or can become) major naval powers, with Dale being somewhere between those and the rest of the factions. The role of navies is generally limited in Tolkien, largely due to the map as well. The lower course of the Anduin and Greyflood up to Tharbad are navigable. Ship-building is possible in the Seas of Nurn and Rhun, but only smal ships can be built there and given the limited amount of provinces involved, naval conflict there is more limited.

Okay, that's a good reflection on how it should be imo.

Aglarond no longer exists, but yes

Is that because after Gimli departed most Dwarves would've left lore-wise, or do you find it not practical game-play wise to have a Dwarvish settlement right behind a Rohirrim settlement in Helm's Deep? So Rohan doesn't have a Dwarven unit anymore and will the same apply to the RK regarding the Elves of Ithillien unit?

If we had extra slots, we would have considered Umbar, but it would create other problems. Without Umbar, the Empire of Harad faction is not really an empire and it's not a very powerful faction either, with only 4-5 desert provinces. Umbar would be a relatively weak faction with 4-5 coastal provinces as well, not really threatening to RK (AI cannot do much only with naval invasions) and it couldn't expand without coming into conflict with Harad, which is supposed to be a vassal or at least an ally. It is Umbar that makes the Empire the enemy that it is. Having them merged together creates a strong regional power that can unite Haradwaith and can threaten RK/Adunabar on both land and sea.

Okay, thanks for the explanation, understand much better now why there is no Umbar faction.

[Aradan]

Okay, I thought they could, have looked it up now, so it's Adûnabâr, Harad, Rhûn and Dunland.

Yes.

Interesting, is that based on the new kind of Easterlings who used axes on the Pellenor Field? So the Chiefdom of Rhun will remain the faction who has wains and lots of Cavalry alongside its infantry?

Yes. The Chiefdom of Rhun can also partially incorporate North Rhun's 'special' units (slingers and heavy axemen) under the right conditions.

Is that because after Gimli departed most Dwarves would've left lore-wise, or do you find it not practical game-play wise to have a Dwarvish settlement right behind a Rohirrim settlement in Helm's Deep? So Rohan doesn't have a Dwarven unit anymore and will the same apply to the RK regarding the Elves of Ithillien unit?

A bit of both. And yes, Dwarves of Aglarond and Elves of Ithilien have been removed as units, since the populations that justified them are supposed to have been merged back into their parent population; and we don't want the possibility of Elves of Ithilien in an RK army fighting against an Elven army (and similarly for Dwarves of Aglarond and Rohan/Dwarves).

[Jagmodo]

This is still to be finalized, but we're leaning towards having only Thranduil at game-start, with Cirdan as an abstract presence since he's supposed to be there to take the very last ship). Elladan, Elrohir and Celeborn are supposed to have left.

By abstract presence you meant Cirdan could be represented with ancillary, the way Herumor was in TNS? It would be really nice to see that bearded Elf, but on the other hand he could be "misused" where he really doesn’t belong (newly conquered mannish settlements), depending on the benefits he would provide (Herumor was used to quickly convert provinces…). Therefore, if he will be represented as ancillary I think he shouldn’t give too large benefits to its "owner", or the ones that would be used to easily pacify conquered settlement. Also, if he would be given to the lord of the Havens, and this lord is recommended to stay there because of the benefits given - that would be enough to discourage moving him around the map.

Ar-Another proposed dividing elven faction in a couple of smaller ones to represent different realms… While of course that doesn’t really have much advantage since they are so few in FO, wasting faction slots, additional work required …, I’m wondering will you represent them in some other ways (except traits, of course)? What I’m really asking will Elves have subfactions i.e. recruit different units depending on the regions, or will recruit same units everywhere? The same question also apply for Dwarves.

I’m mentioning this only for the case it passed unnoticed and was meant to be changed… From the new screenshots on the Mod DB I saw you still use "Peter Jackson’s crown" on the RK's fleets. By the way, does one ship in DoM still represents single vessel or group of ships?

Edit 1: How does Dorwinion fare in your tested games? Its situation looks quite hopeless if it has only one province/settlement and three strong (, one quite aggressive) neighbors around…

Edit 2: On closer look it may have two provinces...

[Aradan]

No, I meant as a completely abstract figure. An ancillary can be lost or look inaccurate if given to a character living in Lorien, etc.

Elves, like all factions, have different subcultures (ethnicities) to represent various sub-races, but their roster is also very area-specific. There are a couple of generic units, but generally Woodland Realm has very different units to Lindon, etc.
Dwarves have the same units everywhere (with a couple of exceptions), since they are mainly Longbeards.

Some of the visuals in the screenshots are WIP, RK's crown will be the appropriate one.

The plan is to have ships represent flotillas not individual vessels.

Atm Dorwinion gets to expand briefly and then be taken down by North Rhun, but since no campaign balancing has taken place, this doesn't mean anything.

[webba84]

You could represent him with a unique building in Mithlond, if you had space left and wanted a slightly less abstract representation than being occasionally mentioned in descriptions. Cirdan's House, or something like that.

[Nelduin]

How is the progress regarding Elven roster? Éorl once posted a screen, but it was months ago and I'm curious to see how they look now .

[MasterOfNone]

The Elven units are not yet started. They remain the chief matter to complete on the mod. Eorl did not begin them before he disappeared.

[Nelduin]

In fact, I found the post I refered to: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post12233182.

Ok then, hope you will find a modeler/skinner soon.

[Agent007]

The Elven units are not yet started. They remain the chief matter to complete on the mod. Eorl did not begin them before he disappeared.

That's bad. Indeed, I haven't seen Eorl around for quite some time, thus I supposed he was MIA when Aradan talked about finding a new modeler. If only I had some graphic skill I would lend you a hand, but I'm a total zero when it comes to graphics.

[Feanaro Curufinwe]

Will there be a new soundtrack for 'Dominion of Men'?

[MasterOfNone]

We have contacted quite a number of musical artists over the last couple of years and all without exception have granted us permission to use their music. So, yes, you will hear many new tracks in DoM, as well as the ones currently in it, of course.

[Crystal Fox]

Will this mod ever be for mac? Or if anyone has made a wine for it?