Ask Your Questions Here!

[Jagmodo]

I also mostly play custom battles with random weather. Exception is when I want to take a good screenshot, so I set up what kind of weather want (I’m actually quite fond of dusk) or (rarely) just set it up because I wish to play on certain weather.

Looks like, as Thangaror mentioned for himself, we are all too lazy to bother with it.

[Aradan]

No, the only navigable rivers are Anduin up to Harlond and Greyflood up to Tharbad. Turning a river into sea looks bad on battlemap and creates gameplay issues on campaign map unless done properly and used only where it must be.

[Jagmodo]

Will you then represent trade between some river ports e.g. Thranduil’s Halls and Esgaroth in other way as with certain economic building (river dock)?

[Aradan]

There's no need to do that, the two provinces share land borders, so there already is trade between them.

[Wambat]

Is there any possibility that the traits and ancillary descriptions may be leaked, when completed, prior to the release of the completed mod?

I ask because I like to make a thorough study of these documents prior to the beginning of a campaign so as to help formulate early my strategic plans and objectives. With this information available prior to the release of the mod I would be able to begin my first campaign immediately upon the mod's release.

I would also like to inquire: has any decision been made as to whether diplomats will be used in the next incarnation of this mod?

[Aradan]

Sure, I've got no problem with publishing the traits and ancs when they are done (though they might be in 'summary' form and not complete text/effects). In fact, I might do it prior to that, so that people can give feedback and suggest additions/changes...

We will be having diplomats. I think they are necessary, even if just for ceasefire agreements.

[athanaric]

Without diplomats, the game would become entirely unplayable.

[Wambat]

Without diplomats, the game would become entirely unplayable.

In fact, quite a few mods prohibit diplomats altogether. I have done quite a bit of experimentation with diplomats to figure out what they can and cannot do. Among other things, they can be used to exploit an effectively unlimited supply of money from opposing factions; even ones you are at war with. This particular exploit requires only one diplomat and one army to be used.

There are many other ways to get money using diplomats as well. The real trouble is, some of them seem "legitimate" while some are clearly broken, and a few seem somewhere in the middle. It is the ambiguity of some of these methods of getting moneys through diplomacy that makes the issue problematic: self policing is impossible in the absence of explicit parameters from the mod designers, since one cannot clearly judge what functions the mod designers accounted for in the balancing of the mod.

Clearly, each factions access to moneys was a consideration in the creation of the mod: each faction starts out with a different amount of money; each has a different capacity to generate funds; each factions armies require a different amount of funding. The mod designers felt that different financial capacities would be important to the balance of the factions, but the broken diplomacy system has the potential to more or less undermine that balance.

I have asked the mod designers to address this issue. Basically, they merely need to state what diplomatic functions have been accounted for in the present mod. They have not done so; for all I know they cannot: the mod is several years old and those who made balancing decisions may no longer be involved. I hope this issue will be addressed in the upcoming release.

Presently, my only solution is to play the mod without using any diplomatic function to gain moneys from other factions.

[Aradan]

Making use of these exploits is clearly within the player's discretion. If you know it's an exploit and it bothers you, you can simply not use it. If we could in any way change the available diplomatic options or the inner workings of diplomacy, we would, but it's impossible. So we will either have diplomats with everything possible or not have them at all.

The solution of diplomat removal is too drastic. Without diplomats wars between neighbouring factions can never stop before one of them is destroyed, new alliances cannot be forged, trade partnerships are impossible, absolutely no diplomacy is possible. This breaks the game more than the ability to get some extra cash does.

So we have opted for the option of keeping diplomats knowing that there are possible exploits. The only way I can see that we can account for them is by making the game so hard for the player that such tactics become necessary. That would balance the game for the people who use those exploits, and make it too hard for those that don't. If there any other ideas on how to account for these exploits, I'm all ears.


EDIT: In TNS no such exploits have been taken into consideration during the balancing, because I mainly based it on the AI's performance, and the AI doesn't use these of course.

[athanaric]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In fact, quite a few mods prohibit diplomats altogether. I have done quite a bit of experimentation with diplomats to figure out what they can and cannot do. Among other things, they can be used to exploit an effectively unlimited supply of money from opposing factions; even ones you are at war with. This particular exploit requires only one diplomat and one army to be used.

There are many other ways to get money using diplomats as well. The real trouble is, some of them seem "legitimate" while some are clearly broken, and a few seem somewhere in the middle. It is the ambiguity of some of these methods of getting moneys through diplomacy that makes the issue problematic: self policing is impossible in the absence of explicit parameters from the mod designers, since one cannot clearly judge what functions the mod designers accounted for in the balancing of the mod.

Clearly, each factions access to moneys was a consideration in the creation of the mod: each faction starts out with a different amount of money; each has a different capacity to generate funds; each factions armies require a different amount of funding. The mod designers felt that different financial capacities would be important to the balance of the factions, but the broken diplomacy system has the potential to more or less undermine that balance.

I have asked the mod designers to address this issue. Basically, they merely need to state what diplomatic functions have been accounted for in the present mod. They have not done so; for all I know they cannot: the mod is several years old and those who made balancing decisions may no longer be involved. I hope this issue will be addressed in the upcoming release.

Presently, my only solution is to play the mod without using any diplomatic function to gain moneys from other factions.

Since the RTW AI was programmed by Adolf Hitler, the only thing that can keep the campaign gameplay - especially in late game - from being an endless and extremely repetitive and tiresome battle is the possibility to bribe or otherwise manipulate enemy armies or factions via diplomats. Personally, I like building up my empire and choosing which wars to fight. What I don't like is games that devolve into work. Diplomats can help a bit there. I don't play mods that don't have diplomats.

Also, this:

Making use of these exploits is clearly within the player's discretion. If you know it's an exploit and it bothers you, you can simply not use it. If we could in any way change the available diplomatic options or the inner workings of diplomacy, we would, but it's impossible. So we will either have diplomats with everything possible or not have them at all.

The solution of diplomat removal is too drastic. Without diplomats wars between neighbouring factions can never stop before one of them is destroyed, new alliances cannot be forged, trade partnerships are impossible, absolutely no diplomacy is possible. This breaks the game more than the ability to get some extra cash does.

Of course, you could say suum cuique, but in the end, most players would probably want diplomats in order to be able to play freely.

[Wambat]

EDIT: In TNS no such exploits have been taken into consideration during the balancing, because I mainly based it on the AI's performance, and the AI doesn't use these of course.

I think we are speaking at cross purposes here: My point, which I have endeavored to make clear, is not that I have a problem controlling myself when it comes to the use of diplomats, but that the line between legitimate use and exploitative use is too blurred for the player to make a confident distinction.

However, I think you have stumbled upon what I was looking for: "I mainly based it on the AI's performance." Perfect; so this means, I take it, that the mod is balanced such that the player is assumed to use his diplomats only for those functions the AI uses. If you could please elucidate for me just was uses the AI makes of diplomats; I don't know; then we should have the answer which, I think, will improve the mod for all concerned.

Many thanks, in advance; I am sure untold man-hours have gone into the knowledge you are about to impart to us. I look forward to playing the mod again with confidence that I am playing a balanced game.

[Aradan]

The AI mostly does ceasefires, map information, trade rights and alliances. If it thinks it's beating the player too badly (has recently won battles and has local superiority around the borders between its lands and the player's) it also demands protectorate status (but generally breaks it the next turn). It will also ask for or offer single payments for map info and trade rights, but it's usually small sums and only once. It will never or rarely offer a ceasefire or an attack against other faction's enemies in exchange for cash.

So, all in all, the AI diplomacy is geared towards the simpler options and not money.

[Arissaa]

1. Current links do not contain files. Can I count on reupload?
2. I found another server with files. It does not work under 64-bit system. Can you count on the installation file for 64-bit?
3. In the future there will be new versions?

[Aradan]

1. Did you try the download links from this thread? TNS 2.6 Full, both .exe and .rar, seem to be working fine.
2. There is no need for a different installer for 3-bit2 and 64-bit versions of the game, it works fine with both. What kind of error message do you get?
3. Yes, we are working on a new and much improved version of the mod.

[Arissaa]

1. Yes. After the countdown I get the message: http://zapodaj.net/images/79cd5230389e3.png <- in english "file not found"
2. http://zapodaj.net/images/fd271de8a5bf0.png <- Not compatible version.
3. Good luck ;}

[Aradan]

1. Ah, I see. Fielront does that some times. The file is up there and available though. When you first load the page, the 'download now' button appears, but after a while it's removed and the error image appears. Try and click the button as soon as you can. If that's not possible, I'll reupload.

2. That error message is about the .exe though, right? The mod files do not include an .exe file, they are just text/model/texture files inside a folder, and those have nothing to do with the version of the game. What size is that .exe file that's causing this error? Is it 0-byte?

3. Thanks.

[Arissaa]

Link now works. I downloaded the rar file and mod good start. Thank you very much.

[Wambat]

I have just got a new computer and installed RTW to it. I installed the latest FATW mod; 2.6; and started to play, but am perplexed. Before I got a little dos screen where I had to pick my faction before I entered into the game; now, no dos screen. Have you gotten rid of that workaround? will the factions still be well balanced?

[Basileos Predator]

Hey Aradan, i was wondering, could we get some glimpes of the map of DOM?
Also, if you are kind sir, if it is done , could we get some pics depicting some faction's units in action(from DOM of course)
Cheers Predator!
BTW, the activity on the forum got really low.We must do something to revive it.

[Aradan]

I have just got a new computer and installed RTW to it. I installed the latest FATW mod; 2.6; and started to play, but am perplexed. Before I got a little dos screen where I had to pick my faction before I entered into the game; now, no dos screen. Have you gotten rid of that workaround? will the factions still be well balanced?

The console opened only for WoM, TNS 'vanilla' doesn't use it.

Hey Aradan, i was wondering, could we get some glimpes of the map of DOM?
Also, if you are kind sir, if it is done , could we get some pics depicting some faction's units in action(from DOM of course)
Cheers Predator!
BTW, the activity on the forum got really low.We must do something to revive it.

We are currently in the process of reviewing the climate/ground types in some parts of the map in order to increase accuracy; when we're done we'll probably preview something. As for units, Eorl will be showing some things off in the near future, I believe.

It's only natural that activity is low, we haven't been previewing stuff lately, which is mainly what attracts viewers. Things will pick up when we do a preview or release...