Thread: Ask Your Questions Here!

  1. #2941
    Civis
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    122

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Weilyn View Post
    Hi!
    First of all, I absolutely love this mod, and I am incredibly thankful for all the hard work put into its creation.

    Secondly, most spearmen in the mod seem not to get a bonus against riders, which sort of makes me wonder what they're supposed to be used for. Do they get a defense bonus or something?

    Also, is there any gameplay guide or strategy faq where questions like that are answered? I've played Fourth Age Total War for years, but I still feel like there are things I don't fully grasp yet.

    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    Most spearmen units have the "light_spear" attribute, which does protect (+8 def) against cavalry, but does not create a visible tooltip that mentions it.

    There must be a couple of gameplay guides around the forum, but I can't locate them atm. Feel free to create a new thread or ask here though!
    To elaborate a bit on Aradans answer as well as to point out a little "feature" in TNS.

    Light_spear attribute gives bonus defense against cavalry but penalizes defense against infantry. Normal spear attribute instead does the same for attack. Then you can add additional attack bonus against cavalry, which shows up on the unit card.

    However, gondor and adunabar militia, and levies based on them, have had a little miss. They don't have either spear attributes and as such are actually wielding spear-shaped swords.

    In Vanilla RTW all spear units (I think) had additional damage against cavalry, which was in addition to the damage from the spear attribute (there were very few units with the light_spear attribute) making spearmen ridiculously damaging against cavalry.
    I think spear attribute gives +7 atk vs cav and -7 atk vs infantry, which means that the humble eastern spearmen who had 3 atk and 10 def became a very powerful unit in actuality.
    Because of the -7 atk vs infantry, almost all infantry had their damage decreased to the minimum. So it made no difference that the eastern spearmen only had 3 atk when other spearmen had 7-8 atk, they both did the same damage to infantry.
    And vs cavalry, they did their 3 damage. +7 from spear attribute, +6 from the additional damage attribute. Giving them a hefty 16 damage.
    This problem with making even the very meekest spearmen into great cavalry killers has been fixed in this mod by instead using the light_spear attribute (affecting defense intead of attack) and being a bit more modest with handing out additional anti-cav damage in addition to that. Most heavier spearmen has +4 additional attack and two-handed anti-cav weapons has +6 typically. Which are pikes and halberds, not used by many troops in the campaign (Dunland tribal pikemen, uruk halberds and mercenary halberds, Dunland elite pikemen are wielding a one-handed "pike" and a shield and only has 4 additional damage).





    There are such guides and even a strategy guide for RK and one for Rohan (the latter written by yours truly).
    But you'll learn a lot about the game if you look in the export_descr_ files.
    Especially export_descr_unit.txt, export_descr_buildings.txt and so on. These two are generally referenced as EDU and EDB.
    Look up the unit, buildings, character_traits and ancillaries files and you'll have most of the info there on units and what is required and how it all works.
    As well as triggers for traits and ancillaries, how they are acquired and so on.




    This is what a entry from the EDU (units file) looks like.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Code:
    type             dunland pikemen2
    dictionary       4a_dunland_pikemen2      ; Dunlendish Elite Pikemen
    category         infantry
    class            spearmen
    voice_type       Medium_1
    soldier          4a_dunland_pikemen2, 60, 0, 0.46
    officer         4a_dunland_standard
    attributes       sea_faring, is_peasant, hide_forest
    formation        0.9, 1, 2, 2, 8, square, schiltrom
    stat_health      1, 5
    stat_pri         10, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.37
    stat_pri_attr    short_pike, spear, spear_bonus_4
    stat_sec         0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,1
    stat_sec_attr    no
    stat_pri_armour  11, 8, 5, leather
    stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
    stat_heat        3
    stat_ground      0, -1, -1, 0
    stat_mental      13, normal, trained
    stat_charge_dist 2
    stat_fire_delay  0
    stat_food        60, 300
    stat_cost        1, 1164, 332, 115, 149, 1554
    ownership        celts


    I'll break it down for you.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Code:
    type             dunland pikemen2                        
    = name of unit in game mechanics terms
    
    dictionary       4a_dunland_pikemen2      ; Dunlendish Elite Pikemen                        
    = name of unit in dictionary (where it takes it's flavour text) ; Actual name of unit in the game. 
    
    category         infantry                       
     = How the AI handles them
    
    class            spearmen                        
    = Again, how the AI handles them. Which makes it handle gondor militia as spearmen despite them not actually having spear attribute.
    
    voice_type       Medium_1                        
    = The voice of the unit in game.
    
    soldier          4a_dunland_pikemen2, 60, 0, 0.46                         
    = The graphic of the soldier, followed by the number of men in the unit in normal mode, followed by the number of extras in the unit (dogs for Dunland warhounds etc), 
    and last the mass of the unit (meaning how much they get pushed around)
    officer         4a_dunland_standard
    = Graphic for the officer
    
    attributes       sea_faring, is_peasant, hide_forest
    = What abilities the unit has. This one can embark on boats, has half the effectiveness as garrison troops (almost all units in TNS has this) and can hide in forests.
    
    formation        0.9, 1, 2, 2, 8, square, schiltrom
    = How the unit forms up, the first "pair" is distance between soldiers in closed formation (0.9 and 1, meaning between soldiers side to side and between them in ranks). The second pair is the same loose formation
    =The last number is how many ranks it forms up in as default. Then how the formation looks, square is default but some has horde, which is that round loose jumbled formation, Schiltrom means it can form a Schiltrom.
    
    stat_health      1, 5
    = How much health the unit has. Number of hitpoints. The first number is the soldier, which most has only 1 hitpoint and the second is hitpoints for their mounts if they are separate (like mumakils and chariots). 
    =In TNS they have increased the second stat since it takes this into account for auto-resolve despite not doing anything for infantry in manual combat.
    
    stat_pri         10, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.37
    =Weapon stats for the primary weapon. First number is damage, second is charge bonus damage, type of missile fired (arrow etc, no if it's not a missile weapon, followed by range of missile and lastly number of arrows/javelins.
    =Melee is the type of attack, melee, thrown etc, makes a difference if you throw weapons or fire them.
    =Simple is the "tech-level" of weapons for upgrades from the forge. Simple means in TNS Iron or iron alloy. Blade is Steel and missile is what you think it is.
    =Piercing is apparently an old stat and isn't used anymore.
    =Spear means the sound that is played when hitting, it does not mean that it's actually a spear, just that it sounds like one.
    =The number 25 is probably not used, everyone seems to have it.
    =The last number is the attack speed in seconds, a fairly important stat that isn't shown anywhere in the game. Missile weapons tends to have 1 and melee 0,5. These pikemen are very effective because they attack much faster than most units.
    
    stat_pri_attr    short_pike, spear, spear_bonus_4
    =Attributes that determine bonuses for the weapon. short_pike is required for schiltrom formation. Spear gives it bonus to atk vs cav and a negative vs infantry, most use light_spear instead, as stated above. 
    =The spear-bonus is additional bonus damage vs cavalry.
    
    stat_sec         0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,1
    =Stats for a secondary weapon, if the unit has it. This one doesn't. Otherwise same numbers as for the primary weapon (missile weapons seems to only work as primary weapons).
    
    stat_sec_attr    no
    = again, same as for primary weapon but of course applies to the secondary.
    
    stat_pri_armour  11, 8, 5, leather
    = defense values. First is armor, second is parry/dodge and third is shield.
    = Armor always works, ap attribute (armor piercing) halves it. Parry/dodge only works in melee, not against missiles, and only from the front and possibly the right. 
    = Shield doubles or triples it's value vs missiles, but only works against attacks from the front and left (melee as well as missiles), meaning it makes a huge difference if you got your archers on the left flank or the right.
    = The last value is the sound when hit.
    
    stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
    = stats as above but for the mount. It does not have a shield for obvious reasons.
    
    stat_heat        3
    = How heat affects their stamina.
    
    stat_ground      0, -1, -1, 0
    = How different terrain affects them, probably with atk and/or parry/dodge. Each number is for a terrain type, can't remember the order.
    
    stat_mental      13, normal, trained
    = Morale of unit, followed by a setting if they may charge on their own or not and lastly how ordered the formation looks.
    
    stat_charge_dist 2
    = Charge distance....
    
    stat_fire_delay  0
    = Delay between firing missiles, in addition to the value in weapon stats.
    
    stat_food        60, 300
    = Not used.
    
    stat_cost        1, 1164, 332, 115, 149, 1554
    = Costs. First number is turns it takes to recruit it, then cost to recruit it, third is upkeep for the unit. Then upgrade costs for weapons and armour and finally the cost for the unit in custom battles.
    
    ownership        celts
    = Who can buy them in custom battles. NOT who can build them in campaign, that's regulated by the EDB
    ( the ";" means that whatever comes after in that line is disregarded, so you can disable a line of code by putting ";" in front of it, something you'll see a lot in the EDB, as well as used for things like separations in the text and other things to make it easier for us that is reading it, but isn't used by the game in any way)

  2. #2942

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Just for over-all reference, I'd like to post a RTW EDU Guide by some dude, none of us have heard of so far:

    The Complete EDU Guide (for RTW)

    ...

  3. #2943
    Civis
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    122

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Well, that sort of makes my effort redundant...

  4. #2944

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehcrum View Post
    Well, that sort of makes my effort redundant...
    To be honest, I didn't read all of your post, because I assumed you didn't incorporate all of Aradan's knowledge and/or didn't include facts that disfavour your point of view.

    Could you perhaps shorten your statement (what you wan't to prove) in one or two sentences?

  5. #2945

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Do you guys know when you might be done? But take your time I'd like it to be done as well as your previous versions. And you guys should produce modding tutorials and stuff so people like me who want to make their own mods can do better with their projects lol. I'm currently trying to make a Barbarian Invasion mod and I made some changes to the game and map but now I can't get past turn 10 or so without a crash to my desktop.

  6. #2946

  7. #2947
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    3,106

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    How will the Orkish Strongholds work? Will they be settlements, or something else?
    Last edited by Feanaro Curufinwe; May 01, 2014 at 11:35 AM.
    It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
    Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War

  8. #2948

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    They are settlements with limited capabilities; basically just recruitment of Orcs, Trolls and Wargs (where available).

  9. #2949
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    3,106

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    They are settlements with limited capabilities; basically just recruitment of Orcs, Trolls and Wargs (where available).
    So, small provinces which are akin to permanent strongholds but with recruiting capabilities?
    It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
    Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War

  10. #2950

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Yes.

  11. #2951

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    I have played many campaigns in TNS and would like to ask if the new mod will have a mechanism to make capturing key settlements harder? I have noticed that the AI quickly takes over the likes of Minas Tirith with minor forces and to the player it feels as though something has been 'robbed' from the game( i.e a reversal against all odds, like in the books). I suppose as a fan I would like to think the likes of Erebor or Imladris could be held with a few units to ensure it would be one of the last to fall for a faction and would feel it kept it 'identity' for longer as a result.

  12. #2952

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    That's a tricky issue, because the game's auto-resolve feature ignores fortifications, so there's not much we can do to make important settlements harder to capture than any other. We're open to suggestions though...

    In battle-map mode we can make such settlements more defensible. Minas Anor, for example, is quite hard to take, what with unbreakable walls, mithril gates, powerful towers and 7 levels, and we could theoretically make key settlements' fortifications stronger. But that's just for battle-map, so only the player is affected and only by choice.

  13. #2953
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    16,707

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    I recently re-checked with someone I know at CA, and the auto-resolve appears to be quite simple. It is a great pity it does not take walls into account. Players will just have to abide by a house rule of not auto-resolving siege battles at cities of renown...
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."
    The Fourth Age: Total War - The Dominion of Men

  14. #2954

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Thanks for the reply! I appreciate what you are saying..... I don't really understand the game engine enough offer any answers. I suppose it depends on how AI conflict is decided? I am presuming something similar to the auto-resolve? Possibly tweaking this in a factions favour for single settlemts? Again this is probably nonsense....

  15. #2955

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Maybe a garrison script for cites of renown, even for AI vs AI siege?

    Mundus Bellicus - TWC - ModDB - Discord - Steam
    ~ Patronized by Gaius Baltar, son of the Great Family of imb39, of the House of Garbarsardar, of the Noble House of Wilpuri.

  16. #2956

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Background scripts are out of the question.

  17. #2957
    Basileos Predator's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Calafat - Dolj - Romania
    Posts
    1,757

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    ^^^ That's what DOM and the previous FATW mods are all about: Stunning game-play with no use of scripts that are really questionable in therms of reliability on the long run.

  18. #2958
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Staddle
    Posts
    6,923

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Its been too long since I looked at this side of RTW modding but is there any way to make some units have no movement points? Could build garrisons for the AI that way if there was.
    Last edited by webba84; May 02, 2014 at 01:36 AM.

  19. #2959

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    Not possible. Movement cannot be set on a per-unit basis, and the engine doesn't allow very small movement speed anyway.

  20. #2960

    Default Re: Ask Your Questions Here!

    I think if you want an AI unit to not move the thing to do is to attach to it an AI general with zero movement points. With the supplies attributes in the current incarnation it is quite possible for generals to have their movement degraded to nothing. I expect it should be possible to create an attribute for AI generals which gives them a -100% to movement.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •