Submod: War for Gondor

[alhoon]

Does it changes the AI bonus traits in the main (vanila TATW 1,4) campaign as well?? Thanks in advance!!

Yes. The trait system is the same for all the mods.

[Violator]

Yes. The trait system is the same for all the mods.

So you say it is o.k. to install your mod and it will not affect my current TATW campaign at all (i do not use any other submods it is a clan version of 1.40 Thanks in advance!!

[alhoon]

It will give you access to the trait tree that gives battle surgery and movement points even in the TATW campaign and it will change somewhat the effects of the AI boost trait in the main campaign. Most notably, the computed will heal less in victorious battles and all AI generals will be able to fight at night.

[Forlong]

Great Submod! But when will Dwarven, Elven and Rohan units be available? And will it be reinforcements or... And another one, I made a copy of "data" before I installed this Submod, but how can i reinstall it? I mean, I copy that old data over this or just delete the one with a Submod and copy old one.
And can I install Patch 1.5 when it comes if I have this version of Submod installed? Thanks.

[alhoon]

Elves, Dwarves and a few Rohirim, mixed with Gondor forces will arrive in that order. You'll get a message notifying you of their arrival. They elves arrive very, very early. By turn 6-7 they should be there even if you have minimal casualties.
As for reinstalling your normal mod, both methods work.

As for 1.5... I don't know yet. Once it's released we will both see. Although, truth be told, development of 1.5 just started. I believe you would have won this mod as both Gondor and Mordor by the time it's here.

[Janksar]

That's a very great submod, man! + rep
I've played the campaign with harad and notice that mumakils can't take the boat to cross the river, and because of the myriad of orcs' stacks blockading the access to osgiliath, harad can't attack western osgiliath by land. Those two facts maybe explain why harad don't attack gondor when controlled by AI?
Next campaign : Gondor. Orcs won't pass, they'll pass away!!

[helmersen]

Need pictures!

[Zakkeh]

Ahaha, just downloaded it and had my first battle. Tactical blunder ftl, sending Faramir up to combat E Osgiliath and finding out that even if my men stand behind me, they don't ACTUALLY reinforce me >.< So fought two whole stacks with Faramir's little army, managing to take out 47%, apparently. I can post some of the snaps I took of it, once I realized I was doomed >.<

[el Cid]

It would be nice to see some pics, I suggest Woodland Realm against Dol Guldur next, or else Dwarves/Dale/Rhun/OotMM

[alhoon]

That's a very great submod, man! + rep
I've played the campaign with harad and notice that mumakils can't take the boat to cross the river, and because of the myriad of orcs' stacks blockading the access to osgiliath, harad can't attack western osgiliath by land. Those two facts maybe explain why harad don't attack gondor when controlled by AI?
Next campaign : Gondor. Orcs won't pass, they'll pass away!!

Harad?! They don't get any reinforcements at all. And while you may be able to capture Minas Tirith or Osgliath (the later should be easy, just bring with a ship your army and hit them from behind, as Mordor generals are flexing their feet next to it) you'll propably never be able to defeat Mordor. Perhaps I'll throw in some reinforcements for them too in the next version.
On the plus side, you have SO MUCH money as Harad that you can propably buy off Mordor.

Ahaha, just downloaded it and had my first battle. Tactical blunder ftl, sending Faramir up to combat E Osgiliath and finding out that even if my men stand behind me, they don't ACTUALLY reinforce me >.< So fought two whole stacks with Faramir's little army, managing to take out 47%, apparently. I can post some of the snaps I took of it, once I realized I was doomed >.<

You have to get used doing that. That's the mod. In the beginning, you're in a very bad position tactically, and you have to pay with Gondor blood for each turn that passes before reinforcements arrive.
Then elves arrive and you get some relief. Your generals are propably good by the time the elves arrive, so getting them back to speed with elven bows should be easy.
And when dwarves arrive, you'll propably laugh with the puny 6000 orcs armies that you will defeat. After all, if you have done it with 2700 men, then doing it with 2700 men+elves+dwarves should be easy.

Also, yes, please post those snaps.

As for the overwhelming numbers:
When the elves and the dwarves arrive, you will have a very, very strong army, and Mordor will propably have lost many of their trolls and Uruks.
An army of dwarves to get rid of the trolls, suplement with elven archers and some Gondor infantry and cavalry for support and filling the ranks is very, very good army.
You can easily make three stacks of Dwarven/Elven/Men army which should be enough to beat back the hordes.

[Janksar]

And while you may be able to capture Minas Tirith or Osgliath (the later should be easy, just bring with a ship your army and hit them from behind, as Mordor generals are flexing their feet next to it)

That's exactly what I wanted to do : to invest the fields of pelenor with my armys from behind but impossible with mumakils as they are not able to take the shuffle to cross the channel that's the weakness of the harad's position

you'll propably never be able to defeat Mordor.

Sure! It was just a campaign to test the mod not to win.

regards

[alhoon]

Well, don't get the Mumakil with you. 3 stacks of army should be enough to take Minas Tirith or better, Western Osgliath. And if you have Western Osgliath you can pass your Mumakil... and get slaughtered by the hordes of Gondor since you will have 3 weakened stacks, without Mordor's support while they will have 4 stacks +1.5 elves +1.5 dwarves + 2 stacks +2 stacks.

[Aragorn1963]

Great mod. Would love to see one for Rohan as well.

[Slater456]

I realy like your submod

some suggestions

I would rly like a bridge between E.O and W.O maybe you can make it something like this

W.O - Bridge - Island -Bridge - E.O


for the reinfocements: they should be more elite imo, like when the dwarves or elves come it should be all last tier units. Also i would use some high elves units into it. Just all high tier units vs 5449874987 orcs gives a much better feeling

For the generals it would be freaking nice if you put: Gimli,Legolas,Gandalf,Aragorn (even more heroes i dont realy (like Elrond or Glorfindel arriving with a fullstack of the best units) care if it's not lorewise, it should be one freaking hell of a battle) into it , just give mordor 9 nazgulls that spawn overtime to compensate


the map could be a bit reworked


When Isengard comes it should be like 4 full stacks of all elite 'Uruk Hai' : Urukhai pikemen, beserkers, etc not the low tiers. So when isengard arrives it should be one hell of a battle. (Ugluk and Saramun should be into it too)


is it possible to retrain elvish/dwarfs? would be nice!

[Paulus Rubio]

Thanks for an incredible sub mod.

I played Gondor, and kicked some serious Harad and Mordor and Rhun ass. It was very fun to control all 3 races in one stack. Elvish archers, dwarven axemen and gondorian cavalry and spearmen. Unstoppable.

It wasn't exactly lore-friendly, but it was so much fun I didnt care.

The next campaign could be a "lore friendly" Gondor campaign, with only Rohan reinforcements and Aragorn, Eomer and Theoden as generals. But I would really enjoy a Dwarf, Silvan Elves and Dale vs Rhun\Mordor and Orcs of the Misty Mountains.
I'd say the best thing would be Dwarfs to run the campaign with Dale and Silvan's as reinforcements.

[alhoon]

Thank you all for your suggestions, feedback and kind words.

I played Gondor, and kicked some serious Harad and Mordor and Rhun ass.

Rhun? Rhun's not in the mod.

It wasn't exactly lore-friendly, but it was so much fun I didnt care.

The next campaign could be a "lore friendly" Gondor campaign, with only Rohan reinforcements and Aragorn, Eomer and Theoden as generals. But I would really enjoy a Dwarf, Silvan Elves and Dale vs Rhun\Mordor and Orcs of the Misty Mountains.
I'd say the best thing would be Dwarfs to run the campaign with Dale and Silvan's as reinforcements.

Yeah, I made it for the fun of those battles, not because those armies would ever combine.


As for heroes:
I have tried to use non-Gondor heroes but their battle model changed to Boromir. I believe the hero battle models are made for each faction and I can't change them.

I would rly like a bridge between E.O and W.O maybe you can make it something like this

W.O - Bridge - Island -Bridge - E.O

Well, I have to admit that I prefer the map with this thin stripe of land to fight on.

for the reinfocements: they should be more elite imo, like when the dwarves or elves come it should be all last tier units.

I was between a small and elite army and larger but "just good" army. I decided to go with the second version and so far I like it. I'll keep in mind your suggestion though. Perhaps in the following version I'll have more elite units.
But truth be told, the dwarven warriors against orcs are about as effective as the dragon slayers. The computer has few trolls in this game, so they're not a problem. For the elves... well, the silvan archers are also as useful as the elite elven archers protected by the spearmen and gondor's militia.

When Isengard comes it should be like 4 full stacks of all elite 'Uruk Hai' : Urukhai pikemen, beserkers, etc not the low tiers.

Ehh... 4 full stacks of all elite Uruk Hai = lose game = no fun. Remember, in VH, with as many enemies as there are right now, casualties over 25% of the enemy casualties is bad. If add more stacks to Isengard and all high tiers, it will be a total catastrophe.
Also, as a note the Uruk-Hai pikemen (and pikemen in general) are not elite IMO. They're useful only against cavalry and then only from the front. Since they have a nice and tight formation, elven arrows would decimate them.

But perhaps, for the ultimate challenge, I'll include a "Hardcore" version of the mod in the next version. No kid's gloves. But... has anyone won the mod on very hard as it is? If not, or if very, very few people managed, it's not worth the effort.

is it possible to retrain elvish/dwarfs? would be nice!

Hmmm... Yes, I think I can make it possible. I'll also make it rare though.
I'll toughen up a bit the late reinforcements of Mordor to compensate for that.



Question for all: Has anyone won the mod at VH/N or tougher? Personally, I have failed twice to win in VH (and I'm not used to losing in TW games).

[Slater456]

I won it on hard/hard

In round 1-4 i put boromir next to faramir on the river crossing with a fullstack. The AI didn't even bother attacking me, that way i could build up a massive elite army

The isengard force comming was no problem i lost about 100 men, it was a combined force of elvish archers and gondor spearman.

When i had all the elvish reinforcements, dwarvish and the rohans reinforcements. Also i upgraded all my buildings and could made some trebuchets/dunedain rangers and lots more (till a certain point the ques were stalled)

So i started to attack with an army consisting of

Faramir
Evlish general
Dwarvish general
6x Archers of the woodland realms
2x trebuchets
5x citadel guard
2x rohan riders
2x (the dwarvish low tier melee, dunno their name)

Boromir
Elvish general
Dwarf general
Silvan heavy archer
2x archers of the woodland realms
2x dragon slayers
4x Silvan heavy pikeman
rest filled with elvish/dwarven forces and some cavalry


first opponent 2x orc armies +- 6500 opponents...

with faramir, boromir as reinfocements. First stack of 3200 orcs .... well a freaking masacre , if i remember rite i lost like 25 citadel guards.

second stack, my archers had half of their ammo left, same scenario


second opponent : witch king (with 2 ologai if i remember rite), reinforcements orc general (1x troll)

I was lucky that my trebuchet killed the witch king in the first 25 seconds xD, similar to the other battles, though i lost some more citadel guards to the ologais


.....



It went on and on that way, remembering i had a huge force, 6 full stacks were behind faramir and boromir incase something happened, harad was never a big problem they didnt even bother me...

so all the forces of mordor that gathered near E. Osgiliath (it were like 12 stacks if i remember rite) were gone), the rest was quite easy, i still had 4-5 stacks still consisting of alot of elvish archers ( they never got targetted) though the dwarvish forces were almost all gone. So taking Minas Morgul, baradur were quite easy with my 3x 3gold chevron trebuchets



I have to admit is used alt ctrl delete once (to replay one battle), just cus my trebuchet went crazy and killed boromir and the dwarf general

[alhoon]

Yeah, that's a strategy that works on Hard, so I tried it on very hard. Witch King's army with 4000 more orcs came by turn 5 and decimated my Boro-Faramir armies.

That's why I ask about Very Hard.


Also, Harad didn't attack you? That's a problem. They are scripted to attack once you control E.Osgliath.

[alhoon]

So, working on a light update.

No new regional campaign for the moment!

Changes will be that
- Isengard will appear randomly North or South from Gondor
- The images of the elven generals and the dwarven generals will change (Nope, I cannot include Gimli/legolas battle models)
- The elven and dwarven forces will be able to be retrained, but replentishment will be slow. The rohirim retrain pool will be replentished faster.
- Harad, if controled by the player will receive some reinforcements
- Late reinforcements for Mordor will be toughened up, so that the player won't just sweep the weakened Mordor away after he gets retrainable dwarves and elves.
- Advanced barrack events would happen a bit earlier

Possible changes (Feedback would be nice):
- Witchking not present from the start. He will come with the second wave of Mordor reinforcements.
- A Nazgul that cheels out in the far north settlement of Mordor will be replaced by an orc and he will come with the first wave or reinforcements
- Time frame shortened to 40 turns instead of 50 turns
- If Barad Dur is besieged, a very, very special unit will make an appearance. The Witchking along with 8 Nazguls. That's right. The 9 ringwraiths. The will be by far the most powerful thing in the mod. In custom battles, the unit is compared to power with the Balrog. Now think them as the bodyguard of a 9 star general with 3 silver chevrons. Why is this in the suggestions instead on the "to do" list?
Because they're ridicously powerful. Along with two units of Olog-Hai and a "meat shield" of thousands orcs (even if they're lowly), they can decimate an army. I'm talking about 300+ kills from this unit alone.

[alhoon]

Who said that Harad is just sitting around for the whole campaign?



Harad attacks as it should.