Did Austria, Croatia, Ukraine, Slovakia, Serbia, and Romania Steal Lands from Hungary?

[snipa]

Actually no because a listing of numbers doesn't take into account, terrain, tactics, strategy and the battle experience of the armies involved in a campaign or battle. Romania lost most her territory within a few moths of fighting yes but didn't seek an armistice until the new Bolshevik regime in Russia did the same thing and demobilised the old Imperial Army. Romania against great odds was able to hold out until December 1917 and then was able to re-enter the war in November 1918.

Actually the possibility to took Moldova from rest of rumenian forces was not important for CP powers as the important lands were already captured in Rumenia. Its clearly show that most of CP armies which were participated in rumenian campaign were transported to other front as it was most important then rumenians who was already defeated.

Yes but the Russian army was pretty much idle in this time and was providing little in the way of effective military support. How many times do I have to say this?

How many times do i have to say that most of russian army stayed in the front even they was not able to do any offensive operations but hold the flank of rumenian front! That's mean again rumenians didn't stay alone!

I'm sorry but it doesn't mean jack. The Romanians were held up by the terrain and not because of the resistance offered by the tiny Austro-Hungarian forces in the area. Again this has already been mentioned.

It doesn't mean for You! The rumenians were held up by terrain and A-H forces as its well documented that some of the small A-H border-guard forces fought for the last man like in Orsova!
Even the rumenian general said that they retreat was much more faster like advance...

Again the Bessarabian people's right of self determination or does that only apply to Hungarians?

the problem is that Hungarian people's right of self determination was not apply to Hungarians!

Attachment 72434

Shcherbachev was an Imperial Russian commander...and it was the Imperial regime that the Romanians had entered into an alliance with (even though both the Tsarist regime and the Provisional government had been removed by this time). At this time Scherbachev was pretty much cut off by the civil war breaking out in Russia and probably saw the Romanian annexation of keeping Bessarabia out of the hands of the Communists.

So we can agree that Shcherbachev had no authorization to accept the annexation! right?

Irrelevant...I asked you whether you thought the Romanian forces had no right to liberate the rest of the country they had ceded to the Central Powers in the middle of 1918? But hey this is Romania and not Hungary right snipa!!! Different rules obviously apply.

Could u give me any battles where Rumenian forces fought against CP armies to liberate Rumenia?
Again, when CP powers signed the armistice they withdraw from Rumenia without fight! And i think
to say "re-enter" is not correct as the war was already end!

Again you have avoided my point about Germany being in effective command of all A-H forces in the region at the time of the Romanian entry into the war. Nice example of the Brusilov Offensive snipa...you know where if not for German support the A-H front facing the Russians would've collapsed completely. Added to this where the Russians faced the Germans they faced far stiffer resistance...take a look at the battles around Kowel during the middle of 1916.

Really? Could u read my posts? I was the first who mentioned that bulgarian CP forces was led by Mackensen and Transylvania CP forces was led by Falken.
I dunno what u mean "where if not for German support the A-H front facing the Russians would've collapsed completely", do u need some event when german forces retreat and A-H forces stayed in the front? As i have a very good collection from WWI A-H operations I can show some when A-H hold the front when Germans retreat...
But it doesnt matter, thats a stupidity what u try to prove that A-H forces didn't do anything and Germany fought alone...

Stop avoiding the issue. Look when the A-H forces launched their own operations, the invasion of Serbia and the operations in Galicia on the Eastern Front during 1914 being two examples, they fared poorly. When they served alongside German forces they performed better...are you getting the pattern?

actually what is your issue? that A-H forces didn't fight only Germans?
The 1st invasion of Serbia was failed but what about 2nd? Ahh I know only Mackensen fought alone as
he was the leader of 2 A-H armies...

A poor excuse offered here also for the overall poor performance offered by the A-H forces during WW1...blame the Slavs and the Romanians!!! German soldiers were deployed to A-H divisions on the Eastern Front during 1916 because of the poor performance offered by all A-H forces in facing the Brusilov Offensive.

Because of the poor performance by divisions which were not Austrian or Hungarian (i do not say all
minority division were untrustworthy but most of them yes)... As its well documented that even whole brigades deserted where were not Austrians or Hungarians.

I'm not denying that the desertion of the slavic minorities serving within the A-H forces wasn't a problem but this was mainly due to the severe casualties sustained by the multi-lingual junior officer class in the opening year of the war which binded the A-H forces together.

Or simply the minorities didn't want to fight for A-H ! I understand this! But can u feel this problem when you are under attack and your own brigades from your flanks deserted to attackers or retreat without fight?
That was the result of an army from a multi-ethnically empire...
Do You know which nations suffered the most casualties from A-H in WW1?

[snipa]

It is ridiculous ,"who" says that someone is nationalist!
snipa,what you doing is poorly.

man you will win a box of chocolates if u tell me who was the first in this thread who said "nationalist" for someone!

[Romano-Dacis]

dear extreme nationalistic who screaming in Canada!

so u already clear you own court?

Attachment 72432

Again, you have no argument except a response you provoked out of me by sending me countless PM's full of crap. I have those messages in my outbox. I could post screen-caps as well and show them exactly what you said... but it would both be childish and off-topic.

"When all else fails, ad-hominem is your way out."

[Erebus Pasha]

Actually the possibility to took Moldova from rest of rumenian forces was not important for CP powers as the important lands were already captured in Rumenia. Its clearly show that most of CP armies which were participated in rumenian campaign were transported to other front as it was most important then rumenians who was already defeated.

Well they weren't defeated until December 1917 and had resisted offensives by the Central Powers up to this point. Considering the near collapse of the Romanian army in 1916 their efforts in resisting the Central Powers during 1917 is something that should be applauded.

How many times do i have to say that most of russian army stayed in the front even they was not able to do any offensive operations but hold the flank of rumenian front! That's mean again rumenians didn't stay alone!

Look you're being pedantic. And how many times do I have to say that due to events on their home front that the Russian Army wasn't able to provide any meaningful support after August 1917.

It doesn't mean for You! The rumenians were held up by terrain and A-H forces as its well documented that some of the small A-H border-guard forces fought for the last man like in Orsova!
Even the rumenian general said that they retreat was much more faster like advance...

Yes and?

the problem is that Hungarian people's right of self determination was not apply to Hungarians!

Attachment 72434

We are on about Bessarabia.

So we can agree that Shcherbachev had no authorization to accept the annexation! right?

I have already given you the reasons for the annexation so I am not going to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

Could u give me any battles where Rumenian forces fought against CP armies to liberate Rumenia?
Again, when CP powers signed the armistice they withdraw from Rumenia without fight! And i think
to say "re-enter" is not correct as the war was already end!

No Romania re-entered the conflict before the war ended. And you don't have to fight battles to liberate your own country. What would you rather I say? Re-occupy?

Really? Could u read my posts? I was the first who mentioned that bulgarian CP forces was led by Mackensen and Transylvania CP forces was led by Falken.

I wasn't just referring to the situation of leadership during the Romanian campaign snipa.

I dunno what u mean "where if not for German support the A-H front facing the Russians would've collapsed completely", do u need some event when german forces retreat and A-H forces stayed in the front? As i have a very good collection from WWI A-H operations I can show some when A-H hold the front when Germans retreat...
But it doesnt matter, thats a stupidity what u try to prove that A-H forces didn't do anything and Germany fought alone...

I never stated that the Germans fought alone and you know it. What I stated is that the A-H forces facing the Russians under Brusilov on the South-Western section of the Eastern Front suffered from some severe defeats. The Germans were sufficiently worried to send urgent support to bolster both the morale and the resistence of the A-H forces with German units being inter-mixed with A-H ones.

actually what is your issue? that A-H forces didn't fight only Germans?

Well I never did hear of Germans fighting A-H forces during this conflict.

The 1st invasion of Serbia was failed but what about 2nd? Ahh I know only Mackensen fought alone as
he was the leader of 2 A-H armies...

Army Group Mackensen contained the German 11th Army (comprising of 3rd Corps, 4th Reserve Corps and 10th Reserve Corps) so no he didn't fight alone. And we all know how successful this 2nd invasion of Serbia was compared to the bungled A-H attempts during the 1st.

Because of the poor performance by divisions which were not Austrian or Hungarian (i do not say all
minority division were untrustworthy but most of them yes)... As its well documented that even whole brigades deserted where were not Austrians or Hungarians.

Again this is a broad generalisation.

Or simply the minorities didn't want to fight for A-H ! I understand this! But can u feel this problem when you are under attack and your own brigades from your flanks deserted to attackers or retreat without fight?
That was the result of an army from a multi-ethnically empire...
Do You know which nations suffered the most casualties from A-H in WW1?

Go on tell me...would it be the Hungarians by any chance?

[snipa]

Again, you have no argument except a response you provoked out of me by sending me countless PM's full of crap. I have those messages in my outbox. I could post screen-caps as well and show them exactly what you said... but it would both be childish and off-topic.

"When all else fails, ad-hominem is your way out."

again, many of your threads which were created by u is a simply provoke against hungarians like this thread as well as u suffer from hungarophobia!

If I good remember you sent me countless messages with full of stupidity like daco-roman myth with many insult against Hungarians! So please do it, post my messages and I'll post your messages too! We will see who began to insult the other side, we will see how u a Canadian guy from Canada thinking about Hungarians!
Btw, You simply deny your own message when I posted this picture first time! Maybe you want to read your own post where You deny this picture? liar...

I help u the childish and off-topic things when u dump on nationalistic hungarians but man, you are a horrible nationalistic rumenian who screaming in Canada... greater-romania map, bessarabia is rumenian etc etc...

keep in your mind: "u must to clear your own court before u want to criticism court of someone else!

[snipa]

Look you're being pedantic. And how many times do I have to say that due to events on their home front that the Russian Army wasn't able to provide any meaningful support after August 1917.

I'm sure You can't feel the problems when You are under attack and your flanks deserted or retreat without fight (as it happened many times in A-H minority divisions). If You compare this with situation of Rumenian+Russian front! Russian hold the flank of the Rumenian front even if they could not able to do any offensive operations! It was the biggest support that Russians hold the flank! As we can see when Russia signed the armistice which mean they didn't hold the flank of rumenian front anymore, Rumenians immediately signed the armistice too. That's mean they didn't stay alone!

Yes and?

Thats mean their Transylvanian attack was failed...

We are on about Bessarabia.

Yep, but why you said this:
"Again the Bessarabian people's right of self determination or does that only apply to Hungarians?"

To your statement let me say: Hungarians didn't get it!
Attachment 72589

So, should i care about people's right of self determination in Bessarabia?

I have already given you the reasons for the annexation so I am not going to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

Actually you didn't give me any legal reason for the annexation as its unacceptable for me if some people got their right of self determination until other people didn't get it!
We can agree that you have your own opinion about this issue i have another and we do not change it!
right?

No Romania re-entered the conflict before the war ended. And you don't have to fight battles to liberate your own country. What would you rather I say? Re-occupy?

Really? The armistice discussion began in Oktober 26 between Italy and A-H after they signed the armistice in November 3.
November 10, 1918 - Romania re-declares war on the Central Powers.
November 11, 1918- The Armistice on the Western Front is signed in Compiègne, France.
November 12, 1918 - The first Romanian troops enter Hungary and occupy the Gyergyótölgyes (Tulghiş) mountain pass accessing the Szekler Land Region.

So the truth that the war was already end when they declare war and attack again...

Its not an important question but as CP forces withdraw from kingdom of Rumenia without fight it was not necessary to liberate or re-occupy... Rumenia was simply took back to rumenians by CP forces.

I wasn't just referring to the situation of leadership during the Romanian campaign snipa.

yep i know, but i also referring to the situation of leadership in western front where a main leader was a French over Entente forces or in Ottoman front where the main leader was a British over Entente forces.
I do not see difference, the best leader is the best choice... Germany had more good generals like A-H. And?

I never stated that the Germans fought alone and you know it. What I stated is that the A-H forces facing the Russians under Brusilov on the South-Western section of the Eastern Front suffered from some severe defeats. The Germans were sufficiently worried to send urgent support to bolster both the morale and the resistence of the A-H forces with German units being inter-mixed with A-H ones.

and?

Army Group Mackensen contained the German 11th Army (comprising of 3rd Corps, 4th Reserve Corps and 10th Reserve Corps) so no he didn't fight alone. And we all know how successful this 2nd invasion of Serbia was compared to the bungled A-H attempts during the 1st.

Ok dude you win, Germany fought alone against Serbia, Rumenia!

But its funny that you said rumenian attack against Transylvania was successfully but A-H 1st invasion of Serbia was bungled. Seems to me you have problem with your standards! I know u don't like the numbers, but maybe u should check it!

[phoenix[illusion]]

I've heard that Italian citizens of Rome want their land back whole Europe "stole their lands"



it's very simple, Austro-Hungarian Empire was an empire, as it`s said in the name. it was multinational empire, many regions with major population of non-(Austro)Hungarians. As for Serbia, in Vojvodina there were more Serbians, yes, Serbians came as refugees there, but they live there enough, and they were major population in that time. Just to know, Vojvodina was marsh region before Serbians came, that`s why Serbians got this region, because it was crappy, but ,later to be found out, they were wrong, Vojvodina was and is really strong agricultural region after Serbians arrange marshes.

anyways, Hungarians lost WW1, and that`s the logical explanation, you loose war, you loose your territory.
almost everyone got their freedom after collapse of the empire, and they made their own countries or joined with ones that already existed.

and it's a bit silly for Hungarians to "dream" about regions that was never "theirs" when we speak about regions with majority of non-Hungarians

[snipa]

I've heard that Italian citizens of Rome want their land back whole Europe "stole their lands"

pls do not forget this thread was started by a non-hungarian!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

i support this as I'm a Roman Empire fan

it's very simple, Austro-Hungarian Empire was an empire, as it`s said in the name. it was multinational empire,

agree

many regions with major population of non-(Austro)Hungarians. As for Serbia, in Vojvodina there were more Serbians, yes, Serbians came as refugees there, but they live there enough, and they were major population in that time.

its not a question there was regions which had major population from minorities but in the whole empire the major population were Hungarians and Austrians...
If we check Vajdaság/Vojvodina had 32% Hungarians and 29% Serbs in 1910... So what about major population in Vojvodina?

and it's a bit silly for Hungarians to "dream" about regions that was never "theirs" when we speak about regions with majority of non-Hungarians

i dunno how do u mean "Hungarians to "dream" about regions that was never "theirs" !

don't forget again this thread was started by a non-hungarian! I'm sure no any hungarians started any thread about they wanted back any lands nowadays... But if there was any pls show me! Also, if i good remember no any hungarians stated in this thread "we want back those lands"! If yes pls show me! This statements came from non-hungarian's side mostly from Canadians...

[clandestino]

If we check Vajdaság/Vojvodina had 32% Hungarians and 29% Serbs in 1910... So what about major population in Vojvodina?

Actually it was 33,8% Serbs and 28,1% of Hungarians in 1910. if you add the region of Srem which is now part of Vojvodina while in 1910. it was part of kingdom of Croatia, Slavonia and Dalmatia..

the problem is that Hungarian people's right of self determination was not apply to Hungarians!

Cause the self-determination was reserved for the nations which didn't lost the war and the ones who were striving to liberate themselves from the rule of other ( Hungarian ) nation.

[Romano-Dacis]

its not a question there was regions which had major population from minorities but in the whole empire the major population were Hungarians and Austrians...
If we check Vajdaság/Vojvodina had 32% Hungarians and 29% Serbs in 1910... So what about major population in Vojvodina?

This is just not true. Austrians were a minority in their part of their empire, and though Hungarians were the largest population in the Hungarian portion of the empire, they were still only 47% of the population, which is not a majority. In conclusion: A-H was an ethnic cluster- and it was going to fall down eventually, just like the Ottoman Empire before it and the Russian Empire after it.

the problem is that Hungarian people's right of self determination was not apply to Hungarians!

I will repeat myself: all of the regions taken from Austro-Hungary did not have majority Austrians or Hungarians. Therefore, self-determination was applied, and the Hungarians simply were not numerous enough to determine the fate of all of those regions. Even your map shows this.

don't forget again this thread was started by a non-hungarian! I'm sure no any hungarians started any thread about they wanted back any lands nowadays... But if there was any pls show me! Also, if i good remember no any hungarians stated in this thread "we want back those lands"! If yes pls show me! This statements came from non-hungarian's side mostly from Canadians...

Don't forget that this thread was started to ridicule the position which you are sustaining.

Or did you not just spend 6 pages arguing that "yes, those lands were stolen". Or what was your point by bringing up "Rumania betrayed the Entente", or "Hungarians didn't get self-determination"? You are arguing against the break-up of Greater Hungary. So please, stop distorting what you were saying, because it is evident what you are arguing for.

Here's the chronology:
1) I made a thread, posing a valid question about the perceptions of average Hungarians. I provided numerous examples of Hungarian irredentism even in the OP.
2) You came in here defending the position of the irredentists, stating "yes, those lands were stolen, Rumania betrayed entente, no Hungarian self-determination etc. etc.", then Odovacar came in here stating "Yes, those lands were stolen" (just look back in the thread if you forgot ).
3) I proved therefore, that you support the ridiculous OP position, and also showed clearly and convincingly how the idea of "Hungary getting those lands back" is ridiculous. You spent 5 pages trying to defend it.

Own up to your own arguments. And please, don't pretend like "I was just saying the land was stolen, not that we should get it back." It's a zero-sum game my friend. You cannot try to destroy the legitimacy of some states while claiming "oh, but we don't want territorial revision." You obviously do if you question the legitimacy.

EDIT: And by the way, it is well established in academic circles that the 1910 census was botched due to the exaggerated figures of Hungarians. Many scholars actually set the numbers as a compromise between the 1880 and 1910 censuses.

[phoenix[illusion]]

no offense snipa, but my post with Roman Empire is actually making fun of Hungarians who think like that, not of thread creator.
and I think it's not about Hungarians who post their threads of "great hungary", but more about in real life, where we can find example of typical situation when Hungarians want Transylvania (Erdely) back, which they consider Hungarian, but it's actually Romanian.

[Erebus Pasha]

I'm sure You can't feel the problems when You are under attack and your flanks deserted or retreat without fight (as it happened many times in A-H minority divisions). If You compare this with situation of Rumenian+Russian front! Russian hold the flank of the Rumenian front even if they could not able to do any offensive operations! It was the biggest support that Russians hold the flank! As we can see when Russia signed the armistice which mean they didn't hold the flank of rumenian front anymore, Rumenians immediately signed the armistice too. That's mean they didn't stay alone!

Look we are going round in circles here really snipa. The fact of the matter is whether or not the Russians had the Romanians flank or ass they, due to Revolutionary agitation within the rank and file and the focus of much of the men on events unfolding back home, they were not able to provide any meaningful support for the Romanians after August 1917. Romania signed the armistice because they knew with the peace-seeking Bolshevik regime in power, and the fact that the allies were not making any quick progress on the Salonika front, then they were in a pretty hopeless position.

Thats mean their Transylvanian attack was failed...

But not because of the initial A-H defence however brave.

Yep, but why you said this:
"Again the Bessarabian people's right of self determination or does that only apply to Hungarians?"

To your statement let me say: Hungarians didn't get it!
Attachment 72589

So, should i care about people's right of self determination in Bessarabia?

Romano has already kind of answered this.

Actually you didn't give me any legal reason for the annexation as its unacceptable for me if some people got their right of self determination until other people didn't get it!
We can agree that you have your own opinion about this issue i have another and we do not change it!
right?

Well that's your problem my Hungarian friend. Me, and Romano-Dacis before too, have already given you the facts regarding Romania's annexation of Bessarabia. You know that both the Russian commander on the Romanian front and the Central Powers agreed to this so there is no point going on and on about it.

Really? The armistice discussion began in Oktober 26 between Italy and A-H after they signed the armistice in November 3.
November 10, 1918 - Romania re-declares war on the Central Powers.
November 11, 1918- The Armistice on the Western Front is signed in Compiègne, France.
November 12, 1918 - The first Romanian troops enter Hungary and occupy the Gyergyótölgyes (Tulghiş) mountain pass accessing the Szekler Land Region.

So the truth that the war was already end when they declare war and attack again...

Its not an important question but as CP forces withdraw from kingdom of Rumenia without fight it was not necessary to liberate or re-occupy... Rumenia was simply took back to rumenians by CP forces.

No actually the armistice signed on the November 11 is taken as the official end of the Great War therefore Romania did re-enter the war before it ended. The armistice at Compiegne also saw the Treaty of Bucharest nullified. The army of occupation also retreated more hastily once Romanian troops were on the march to re-occupy the parts of Romania that had been lost earlier...and re-occupy is the correct definition in this case.

yep i know, but i also referring to the situation of leadership in western front where a main leader was a French over Entente forces or in Ottoman front where the main leader was a British over Entente forces.
I do not see difference, the best leader is the best choice... Germany had more good generals like A-H. And?

But the similarities end there...on neither fronts did troops from country x have to be intermingled with those from another country y as an act of necessity because country y was on the point of collapse.

The German Army was superior in every sense to that of A-H. The only exception was in heavy siege artillery right at the beginning of the war.

and?

I was merely responding to a false accusation by yourself that I had stated that Germany fought alone on the Eastern Front.

Ok dude you win, Germany fought alone against Serbia, Rumenia!

Again I didn't say that did I! I was merely responded to your statement regarding August Von Mackensen:

Ahh I know only Mackensen fought alone as
he was the leader of 2 A-H armies...

But its funny that you said rumenian attack against Transylvania was successfully but A-H 1st invasion of Serbia was bungled. Seems to me you have problem with your standards! I know u don't like the numbers, but maybe u should check it!

Not at all - the Romanian attack on Transylvania and the 1st A-H attack on Serbia had their differences.

[snipa]

Actually it was 33,8% Serbs and 28,1% of Hungarians in 1910. if you add the region of Srem which is now part of Vojvodina while in 1910. it was part of kingdom of Croatia, Slavonia and Dalmatia..
Cause the self-determination was reserved for the nations which didn't lost the war and the ones who were striving to liberate themselves from the rule of other ( Hungarian ) nation.

I do not add region of Srem as it was not part of Vajdaság/Vojvodina! Thats mean in this region the major population was Hungarians with 32% and second one was the Serbs 29% .

About self-determination , what about Austria? Austria also got land from Hungary...

Btw, if u read how winners spoke about self-determination its clear they wanted to use for all nations not only for winners.

]
no offense snipa, but my post with Roman Empire is actually making fun of Hungarians who think like that, not of thread creator.
and I think it's not about Hungarians who post their threads of "great hungary", but more about in real life, where we can find example of typical situation when Hungarians want Transylvania (Erdely) back, which they consider Hungarian, but it's actually Romanian.

ok dude, lets clearing the situation (no offense just let me explain)!
Many guys has problems that Hungarians consider Erdely/Transylvania as Hungarian. And some guys said "ahh, jesus extreme nationalists huns want back their lands" ! ( but actually i didn't see any Hungarian wrote about this in this thread !!!!!! )

But!
What about Kosovo? Do the serbs consider Kosovo as serb land? Serbs wanted back Kosovo or not?
Serbs use the slogan: "Kosovo is Serbia" ? As for example clandestino in this thread?
This situation is same with Magyars&Erdély/Transylvania.

But another similar one!
What about Bessarabia? Is it part of Rumenia? No! It was part of Rumenia? It was, but only for 20 years...
Rumenian extreme nationalists use greater-rumenia map? Yes, did u have problem with it for example when Romano-Dacis used greater-romania map in his avatar? I'm sure u hadn't!
Did u have problem with his slogan: "Bessarabia is rumenian" ?
Bessarabia is not part of rumenia, and if i good remember they don't want to join to Rumenia!

double standards newer acceptable for me!

[diegis]

Oh boy, Snipa you read what others peoples write here, or just go on with your delirious facts? The reality is that romanian peoples inhabited both Transilvania and Basarabia since ancient times, as a majority. Transilvania was an autonomus country under Hungary kingdom control in medieval times, sometimes under Otoman control when Hungary was transformed in turkish province (a part in austrian one) and even united for a short period with the other 2 romanian countries. It was then a province of Habsburg empire and was part of Hungary just betwen 1867-1918. But it was always inhabited in majority by romanians, a majority who decided to reunite with other romanians (germans minority there decided the same, reunion with Romania in 1918). Hungary tryed to prevent that, and atacked peoples there and Romania in 1918-1919, but was defeated by Romania and our army conquered your country.

Basarabia was conquered by russians in 1812, and a century after (1918) return to Romania, as was normal, since the same majority of peoples living there are romanians, and they decided what to do. Even Lenin agreed to the right of peoples for self-determination.

[snipa]

Oh boy, Snipa you read what others peoples write here, or just go on with your delirious facts? The reality is that romanian peoples inhabited both Transilvania and Basarabia since ancient times, as a majority.

is Bessarabia is part of Rumenia today or not? They wanna join to Rumenia or not?
The reality is that rumenian peoples didn't inhabited both lands from ancient times as a majority... As the 3 nations of Transylvania were Hungarians, Saxons, and Szekler. Vlachs were newcomers from 13th century. So don't waste my time with this stupidity! That's a false statement!

Transilvania was an autonomus country under Hungary kingdom control in medieval times, sometimes under Otoman control when Hungary was transformed in turkish province (a part in austrian one) and even united for a short period with the other 2 romanian countries.

Transylvania was newer an autonomous country under Hungarian kingdom, that's a boring false statement by rumenians. Also it was newer united with the 2 rumenian countries before 1920 jun 4.

It was then a province of Habsburg empire and was part of Hungary just betwen 1867-1918. But it was always inhabited in majority by romanians, a majority who decided to reunite with other romanians (germans minority there decided the same, reunion with Romania in 1918).

Transylvania was part of Hungarian kingdom, even Transylvania was called as Hungarian kingdom when Ottomans occupy middle of Hungary. After 1571 it was called as Principality of Transylvania which was Hungarian! Principality of Transylvania was always Hungarian!

Basarabia was conquered by russians in 1812, and a century after (1918) return to Romania, as was normal, since the same majority of peoples living there are romanians, and they decided what to do. Even Lenin agreed to the right of peoples for self-determination.

Today Besarabia is not part of Rumenia! Thats mean your greater-rumenia map is an irredentist dream!

[snipa]

Look we are going round in circles here really snipa. The fact of the matter is whether or not the Russians had the Romanians flank or ass they, due to Revolutionary agitation within the rank and file and the focus of much of the men on events unfolding back home, they were not able to provide any meaningful support for the Romanians after August 1917. Romania signed the armistice because they knew with the peace-seeking Bolshevik regime in power, and the fact that the allies were not making any quick progress on the Salonika front, then they were in a pretty hopeless position.

Yeah, as I'm sure Rumenia didn't stay alone in WW1... I don't know why it's not a support for You that Russians hold the flank of Rumenian front.

But not because of the initial A-H defence however brave.

And not because of the horribles roads as they ran back much more faster on the same roads...

Well that's your problem my Hungarian friend. Me, and Romano-Dacis before too, have already given you the facts regarding Romania's annexation of Bessarabia. You know that both the Russian commander on the Romanian front and the Central Powers agreed to this so there is no point going on and on about it.

The problem is that Russian commander had no authorization to accept the annexation and Germany had an unofficial support for this... Thats not mean it was a legal issue!

No actually the armistice signed on the November 11 is taken as the official end of the Great War therefore Romania did re-enter the war before it ended. The armistice at Compiegne also saw the Treaty of Bucharest nullified. The army of occupation also retreated more hastily once Romanian troops were on the march to re-occupy the parts of Romania that had been lost earlier...and re-occupy is the correct definition in this case.

The armistice between A-H and Entente was signed in November 3.
Rumenia re-declare war in November 10.
Germany signed the armistice in November 11.
Rumenian troops attacked Transylvania at November 12.

What is not understandable for You?

But the similarities end there...on neither fronts did troops from country x have to be intermingled with those from another country y as an act of necessity because country y was on the point of collapse.

really? So A-H was on point of collapse in 1915? I doubt it...

The German Army was superior in every sense to that of A-H. The only exception was in heavy siege artillery right at the beginning of the war.

Who says other?

Not at all - the Romanian attack on Transylvania and the 1st A-H attack on Serbia had their differences.

yeah sure as in Transylvania 450,000 rumenian soldiers attacked 35,000 A-H soldiers. In the 1st invasion of Serbia 270,000 A-H soldiers attacked 230,000 Serbian soldiers. Thats one of differences.

[diegis]

is Bessarabia is part of Rumenia today or not? They wanna join to Rumenia or not?
The reality is that rumenian peoples didn't inhabited both lands from ancient times as a majority... As the 3 nations of Transylvania were Hungarians, Saxons, and Szekler. Vlachs were newcomers from 13th century. So don't waste my time with this stupidity! That's a false statement!



Transylvania was newer an autonomous country under Hungarian kingdom, that's a boring false statement by rumenians. Also it was newer united with the 2 rumenian countries before 1920 jun 4.



Transylvania was part of Hungarian kingdom, even Transylvania was called as Hungarian kingdom when Ottomans occupy middle of Hungary. After 1571 it was called as Principality of Transylvania which was Hungarian! Principality of Transylvania was always Hungarian!



Today Besarabia is not part of Rumenia! Thats mean your greater-rumenia map is an irredentist dream!

The reality is that you have no clue about history of those lands, and you are very frustrated and still dreaming about something imposible. You need to understand that you was a newcomer, took some lands from other peoples already there, control some other lands, then those peoples decided its enough, and get rid of your influence. More then that, give you a beat too when you try to keep your control. And now you are just a small country and some of you there dream to be an empire. For your own well, wake up and move on, its hard to live believeing you can do something imposible, is tormenting and sad.

About Basarabia, dont worry, we can take care of our problems, and since majority of peoples there are romanians, we'll see in the near future what will be. Just dont be to disperate when we'll reunite, and do something stupid

[snipa]

The reality is that you have no clue about history of those lands, and you are very frustrated and still dreaming about something imposible. You need to understand that you was a newcomer, took some lands from other peoples already there, control some other lands, then those peoples decided its enough, and get rid of your influence. More then that, give you a beat too when you try to keep your control. And now you are just a small country and some of you there dream to be an empire. For your own well, wake up and move on, its hard to live believeing you can do something imposible, is tormenting and sad.

The reality is that I have more clue about history of Hungarian kingdom like rumenians... The only people who are frustrated is rumenians who can't accept that Hungarians newer accept their fictions. The difference between statements of Hungarians and statements of Rumenians is around 28,000 written documents from the past (as Hungary has around 35,000, Rumenia has around 7,000) .
So you need to understand that your ancestors were newcomers proved by many written documents even the first name of Wallachia was "havaselve"/"snowy-plan" in old documents and that's name was changed when vlach arrived to this region.

Rest of your words just show me who is the real nationalist!

About Basarabia, dont worry, we can take care of our problems, and since majority of peoples there are romanians, we'll see in the near future what will be. Just dont be to disperate when we'll reunite, and do something stupid

yeah, thnx man! You proved me again who is the real nationalist... You must hug Romano-Daco...

[clandestino]

I do not add region of Srem as it was not part of Vajdaság/Vojvodina! Thats mean in this region the major population was Hungarians with 32% and second one was the Serbs 29% .

Well the Srem is part of Serbia and province of Vojvodina now, in 1918 in AH there weren't entity called Vojvodina at all, the present day province of Vojvodina was formed after the WW II. If we count all the territories that belonged to the AH before WW I and now are the part of Serbia the proportion was 33,8% Serbs and 28,1% of Hungarians in 1910. Anyway the numbers means jack, those territories were taken by arms and the right of the winning side, there could be 90% of Hungarians and 10% of Serbs and Serbia would still take it. Self-determination only served as a nice parole for the British and American ears.

[ShockBlast]

So you need to understand that your ancestors were newcomers proved by many written documents even the first name of Wallachia was "havaselve"/"snowy-plan" in old documents and that's name was changed when vlach arrived to this region.

We predate you with more then 2000 years.