Roz's Beta 0.70 2TPY/PSF/all town/ mod for RC/RR compilation with stone fort installer.

[wolfslayer]

se_fort_i is ready for testing, se_fortress with pathfinding. May add grass and tweak the paths after I get the others done.

Download here, unzips to SS6x folder..

[Gorrrrrn]

wolfslayer- great news.

and save game compatible!

did you try out running the mod on auto?

[stevehoos]

se_fort_i is ready for testing, se_fortress with pathfinding. May add grass and tweak the paths after I get the others done.

Download here, unzips to SS6x folder..

Cool, thanks

[Gorrrrrn]

Have discovered why Aragon disappeared, the version of the campaign_script with RC/RR doesn't have the code which checks for the number of family members and keeps at 4 or more.

So I'll have to start a campaign all over again with that code added to the campaign_script.
whilst I'm at it, I can add some minor alterations and check to see how they work.
(anyone else notice that when the roads are drawn at the start of a new campaign (after map.rwm deleted) the don't always end up in exactly the same place?)

also Khwarezm moves its capital to Gorgan - I always wondered why it had such big garrisons compared to Urgench.

One observation from my last game - how does Aberdeen get Large_stone_walls by T116 ? It starts with a population of 1000.
(when the English have captured Edinburgh?) (Only 5 other factions had built LSW by then, and they all start with much larger populations.)
(I suspect the AI cheats - it was building LSW for edinburgh, the english captured edinburgh so it finished off the walls in the next best place - Aberdeen?)

I've been looking at the economics too - there's something weird happening with Scotland and England - by T116 they both had huge amounts of money 300,000 - 400,000 fl.
Yet other factions had no spare cash at all. The two other factions with pots of money with leon-castile and portugal.
(Portugal had 1 region throughout the game!)

Difficult to test this - as a human player I am nearly always out of money by T30 whatever faction I play.

I was looking at the walls bonus which I've moved to T100 -definitely seems to help the largest factions get going again - T100 looks about right for them.
(not that there's any necessary correlation between money in the bank and production. Or production / money and outcomes.)

As ever the problem is that small factions often thrive economically and very large ones do to - the first because their fixed income doesn't have an opportunity to get spent,
the very large ones have enough settlements generating cash to be in surplus (and probably healthy internal trade?)

Some of the middling factions do OK, and others don't.

To stop the smallest factions getting too much money the only solution is a smaller kings purse.
the first part of the campaign_script has the additional values for different difficulty levels.
It might be simpler just to remove those increments, or at least substantially reduce them, and replace with the wall bonus.
that at least would generate money for factions on the basis of the number and size of their settlements.

[Gorrrrrn]

Time for some stats.

The first items are taken from the save game files for T91 and T116 in the game i was playing as Norway.

First item shows new building types completed at least once by each faction up to T91.

Attachment 72786

and the this is a list of the building types completed between T91 and T116 by each faction for the first time:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Buildings completed from T91 - T116 for the first time by that faction
----------------------------------------------------------------------

building_completed_abbey_POLAND
building_completed_abbey_SLAVE
building_completed_abbey_SPAIN

building_completed_archery_range_KIEVAN_RUS
building_completed_archery_range_LITHUANIA

building_completed_armourer_LITHUANIA

building_completed_ballista_towers_SCOTLAND

building_completed_barons_stables_HUNGARY
building_completed_barons_stables_LITHUANIA
building_completed_barons_stables_SICILY
building_completed_barons_stables_SLAVE

building_completed_cathedral_SICILY

building_completed_church_PAPAL_STATES

building_completed_city_hall_BYZANTIUM

building_completed_city_watch_DENMARK
building_completed_city_watch_SLAVE

building_completed_council_chambers_DENMARK
building_completed_council_chambers_EGYPT
building_completed_council_chambers_ENGLAND
building_completed_council_chambers_HUNGARY
building_completed_council_chambers_RUSSIA
building_completed_council_chambers_SICILY
building_completed_council_chambers_SPAIN
building_completed_council_chambers_VENICE

building_completed_earls_stables_MILAN
building_completed_earls_stables_SICILY

building_completed_fairground_CUMANS
building_completed_fairground_LITHUANIA
building_completed_fairground_SLAVE

building_completed_farms+1_PAPAL_STATES

building_completed_farms+2_ENGLAND
building_completed_farms+2_HUNGARY
building_completed_farms+2_RUSSIA

building_completed_great_market_EGYPT
building_completed_great_market_JERUSALEM

building_completed_large_river_port_HRE
building_completed_large_river_port_KIEVAN_RUS

building_completed_large_stone_wall_MOORS
building_completed_large_stone_wall_SCOTLAND
building_completed_large_stone_wall_VENICE

building_completed_library_PAPAL_STATES
building_completed_library_RUSSIA

building_completed_marksmans_range_JERUSALEM

building_completed_merchants_wharf_BYZANTIUM
building_completed_merchants_wharf_DENMARK
building_completed_merchants_wharf_KIEVAN_RUS
building_completed_merchants_wharf_SLAVE
building_completed_merchants_wharf_SPAIN

building_completed_mines+1_CUMANS
building_completed_mines+1_KIEVAN_RUS
building_completed_mines+1_MILAN
building_completed_mines+1_MOORS
building_completed_mines+1_POLAND

building_completed_mines_LITHUANIA

building_completed_paved_roads_SLAVE
building_completed_paved_roads_SPAIN

building_completed_racing_track_EGYPT
building_completed_racing_track_KWAREZM

building_completed_shipwright_DENMARK
building_completed_shipwright_KIEVAN_RUS
building_completed_shipwright_SLAVE
building_completed_shipwright_SPAIN

building_completed_siege_works_DENMARK
building_completed_siege_works_JERUSALEM
building_completed_siege_works_SPAIN

building_completed_stone_wall_VENICE

building_completed_tavern_CUMANS
building_completed_tavern_ENGLAND
building_completed_tavern_PAPAL_STATES
building_completed_tavern_SLAVE

building_completed_university_DENMARK
building_completed_university_HRE
building_completed_university_MILAN

building_completed_warehouse_BYZANTIUM
building_completed_warehouse_JERUSALEM

building_completed_wonder_notre_dame_FRANCE




#buildings per faction:

Byzantium - 3
Cumans - 3
Denmark - 6
Egypt - 3
England - 3
France - 1
HRE - 2
Hungary - 3
Jerusalem - 4
Kievan_rus - 5
Kwarezm - 1
Lithuania - 5
Milan - 3
Moors - 2
Papal_States - 4
Poland - 2
Russia - 3
Scotland - 2
Sicily - 4
Slave - 8
Spain - 6
Venice - 3

Norway - 0 (player controlled)
Portugal - 0
Turks - 0

destroyed - Aragon
yet to emerge - Teutonic Order, Mongols, Timurids

interpretations are difficult.
nb Portugal limited to 1 region for all 116 turns.
Turks getting hammered by everyone else (but so were HRE and they managed to build a university.)

Virtually impossible to know at what stage of the growth cycle each faction was - did they have a lot of settlements needing upgrading or very few.
Or had they just upgraded them?

Still good to see the slave faction building away!!

[Navajo Joe]

Rozanov,

That is very interesting info, as it appears the AI is building walls, religious buildings, farms, miltiary buildings, but is it not a little odd that no faction built a Port/Shipwright/Dockyard. When the AI assesses as what is will build, is there a pecking order, if so where do maritime facilties fit? However a River Port was built, is this classed as a grain exchange/market building or a maritime facility?
I believe that Mining facilties were also not within the list also.

[Gorrrrrn]

NJ -

these just from T91-T116, ie in addition to the other factions that had already built shipwrights.

building_completed_shipwright_DENMARK
building_completed_shipwright_KIEVAN_RUS
building_completed_shipwright_SLAVE
building_completed_shipwright_SPAIN

check the larger file to see the list of buildings built before T91.

plenty of ports and shipwrights.

port requires large town, shipwright city and dockyard needs large city.

only a few factions had 1 large city by T116, and a few (including norway -what i was playing) hadn't even got a single stone wall city!
I expect the AI factions would build the higher naval facilities but it's going to need longer to find out, and i stopped once i realised the faction member script is missing.

Once I've sorted out the latest round of changes and debugged them so i can start the game again, I'll do a few screenshots of faction comparison screens.

first up some confusing all faction shots - they'll be familiar to most players:

all factions finances:
Attachment 72817

all factions production:
Attachment 72818

some seriously rich factions:
Attachment 72819

some recoveries aided by wall bonuses:
Attachment 72820

Summary of faction production:

steady constant production: L-C, Portugal, Jerusalem, Pope, Scotland, England
collapse followed by increase after wall bonuses: France, HRE, Novgorod, Kiev, Egypt
earlier collapse followed by recovery: Turks, Hungary, Byzantines, Denmark
early collapse no recovery: Lithuania, Cumans, Genoa, Moors, Khwarezm (poss signs of recovery)
others collapsed slowly.

Summary of faction finances:

Loadsamoney: L-C, Sicily, Scotland, Portugal, England
early collapse (by T45): Turks, Khwarezm, Venice, Cumans, Byzantines, Jerusalem
collpase around T80-100: France, HRE, Novgorod, Moors, Hungary, Pope, Kiev, Egypt (latter showing signs of a recovery?)
late collapse (by T116): Genoa, Lithuania, Poland, Denmark

(Aragon dead by T96, Norway under player control)
--------------------------------------------------------
your starter for 10: what have L-C, Portugal, Scotland and England got in common that enables them to have better finances than the other factions?

(one possible reason for things not panning out - units being recruited faster than population growth can allow upgrades to buildings to generate extra money?)
as we don't want to speed up population growth, possible there is a need to further reduce unit production - but the does AI take any notice of recruitment pools for example?
I suspect not after finding that Galway had recruited 17 spear militia units with a town_watch barracks.)

so slower unit recruitment, but is it possible to get an economy that fits all the factions?
also lower additional K-P increments, so baseline income is lowered, but higher wall bonuses to benefit larger factions?

[Navajo Joe]

Rozanov,

Whoops, sorry I looked at the list within the 'Hide', didn't look in the Data Zip, as you stated above lots of evidence of AI building maritime facilities.

Sorry
NJ

[Gorrrrrn]

NJ - no worries.

In my search for getting the economics right I suspect I'll eventually have to reduce the replacement rate for units even further.
And without a cast-iron way of stopping the AI from recruiting too many units
- maybe a freeze on recruitment if the treasury dips below a certain figure - even that might not work.
That'll take ages to do and there's every prospect a new SS6.2 or even RC/RR update might emerge before that.

So for now I'll try introducing the walls bonus at T50 and maybe the double bonus at T100 and halving the king_purse bonus for the various difficulty levels.
that should shift the money towards the larger factions and away from the smaller ones.
I'm hopeful the faction family member code might help a bit with getting AI settlements more generals?
I'll see if I can introduce some more trade_income bonuses in the EDB too.

-----------
going through the campaign script i notice I managed to give both byzantium and sicily a double helping of wall bonuses somehow.
not only that but the second lot of wall bonuses were the same as the first - evidently never finished the job. tsk!
that's all been corrected.
also removed the redundant castle entries in wall bonuses - cut the file size down quite a bit.
so now doing a novgorod campaign up to T120 approx to see what transpires.

--
and once I've done that I've just downloaded squid's traits validator tool latest version - out yesterday -
so I can give the traits files another going over.
after that v0.5 will be released with the latest updates changes, errors corrected etc.

(not for another week I suspect -certainly not this weekend.)

(just noticed 59 people have downloaded this from the twcenter downloads - look forward to feedback.)

[AClockworkOrange]

I just downloaded this evening. I'm playing as Poland on M/VH. (I'm trying M first because last time I played H campaign with Poland in RR/RC, I was at war with HRE, Denmark, Norway, Kievan Rus, Novgorod, and Hungary broke an alliance by T30!!) It's T22 now, and the map is filling out nicely. Here's map results:

Scotland took Caernarvon, Kiev has taken lands all the way to Polotsk (I can't ever remember Kiev doing this ever in any other game I've played), Portugal has taken 3 additional territories, Seljuk Sultanate is expanding fast and quick. I've never seen them do this before....

The faction rankings are pretty even except for Novgorod. They don't seem to be doing too well.

Maybe I'll get some more turns in over the next couple of days. Is there anything specific that would help?

P.S.: I love the all-town aspect.

[stevehoos]

@ ROZ

The fort that sits to the east of Tripoli is crashing before loading, not sure whats going on? thought I would mention it.

[Gorrrrrn]

stevehoos -which tripoli?

(north africa or lebanon?) The lebanese one should use the SS install files with the revised .worldpkgdesc file.

I've removed the north african one in the latest version of the descr_strat, so if it's that one an updated descr_strat will fix (but only for new campaigns.)

I'll just try loadinga game and checking to see if there's a problem here.

[stevehoos]

stevehoos -which tripoli?

(north africa or lebanon?) The lebanese one should use the SS install files with the revised .worldpkgdesc file.

I've removed the north african one in the latest version of the descr_strat, so if it's that one an updated descr_strat will fix (but only for new campaigns.)

I'll just try loadinga game and checking to see if there's a problem here.

Lebanon, thats right there are 2 of those Tripolis

[Gorrrrrn]

OK I've just checked and it loaded fine here:

Attachment 72947

can you check you have this file in your data/settlements/ambient_settlements/knightly_order_fort_b folder:

Attachment 72949

if that doesn't cure the problem can you post the last chunk of your system log before the summary of all the triggers please?

----------

ACO - tx for feedback - basically we need to track down any CTDs, any weirdness -odd units in the wrong place, balance issues -where certain factions
seem to be doing much worse or better than expected. and general feel of the game.

I see gracul is hoping to have the final SS6.2 out in a few weeks and PB is saying next patch for RC/RR is due soon.
The next major update to RC/RR is likely to be trying to incorporate everything that's in the final SS6.2 into the RC/RR framework which may take some time, esp if there's lots of new units.
So if I can get this tidied up enough my next move would be a version for the SS6.2 final.
After that a version for the version of RC/RR based on that.

In the background is the desire to do those new domestic buildings, some interactive events for the government buildings, and maybe more tweaks for this as it is.
Plus whatever extras come our way that can be usefully incorporated.

[stevehoos]

I am gonna try reinstalling because if yours works it must be something I did, so I will get back with ya later when I do it.

OK I reinstalled and it works, I must have done something , false alarm ha ha

[Gorrrrrn]

steve - no probs.

checking the system.log for possible errors it revealed a few more that needed sorting that I hadn't noticed so a positive outcome.

really must post some sort of update, problem is that I'm still in the middle of testing and generally mucking about with things.

[tforward]

Just a little update on my campaign seems the Crusader States dies out at turn 86.

@Roz Thank you for your continuing effort to fix the economy issues of the game.

[Gorrrrrn]

tforward the crusaders states dying out - unless they get destroyed - is almost certainly down to the absence of the faction family script.

I'm including it in the next major update, wish I'd spotted it being missing a lot sooner!

economy is still a mystery - whatever i do the turks run out of money a long time before anyone else.

I've buffed their towns and placed a few extra resources down that way, but it makes no difference.
It 's really annoying, but it looks like I might have to build the whole economy scripting around them so they don't fail so quickly.
even if it means everyone else has way too much money.

if anyone can work out why the turks do so poorly economically do let me know -
is their land very poor as far as farms goes perhaps?
do they not generate much money from trade?
or is their problem strategic -they are surrounded by enemies?
do their generals have poor traits for tax-collecting?

[wolfslayer]

I would maybe try a different profile for turks in desc_strat; I've noticed the muslim factions seem to do better with the islamic names; for instance I used to run the moors as comfortable tahar in ss6.0 and they always had low tax rates, happy populace and they eventually created a very strong military and economy.

Turks seem to like trader or balanced aslan; but it takes a little experimenting to find a good balance..

Slaves definitely need a fortified strategy, if they survive they will build other techtrees in due time.

Got everything up and running last night, will run for a while on all AI control and try a few battles too..

Forts: I'll upload the se_castle se_fort_g sometime tonight, hopefully.

Looks good from what I can see so far, you definitely placed a lot of forts, that took quite some effort ;-)

Here's the list from 1.5.exe:

fortified...sailor..craftsman...bureaucrat..comfortable.trader..craftsmen...tzar....saladin...tahar...arslan..alfonso...roger
...vlad....wyvadslaw...robert..doge....guy...knud....subotai...heinrich....richard.caesar..henry...napoleon....stalin..genghis...mao...smith

[Gorrrrrn]

wolfslayer

I'll try anything for the turks!!
gone for trader arslan to see if that helps.

I suspect their problem is that they are at war with Byzantium before they can develop their economy.
then the Cumans, Khwarezm, Fatimids and Crusaders get in on the act and they simply get squashed out of existence.

other possibles include increase number of free_upkeep slots in forts - possibly 5.

will be adding hidden_resource capital to Gorgan as the Khwarezm do seem to like to switch to it without any prompting.

shifting the wall bonus to T25 would help the larger factions. double bonus from T100.

difficulty is in seeing what is happening in AI faction economies in detail - exactly what their income in is, where is it coming from, and what are they spending money on.
(may need to check the free_upkeep_units in the EDU too to see if there's any tht could be switched to it without unbalancing the game.)

--------------------------

OK let us start by giving the Turks some farms shall we?
Only Baghdad has any farms to begin with.
I'll add farms to all of the large_towns and above.

in fact generally I'll ensure all large_towns get farms and cities get farms+1 for all playable factions.