IWTE - World editing - (General Discussion)

[makanyane]

nope....

thought you were fixed now.

I did try ram against gate in custom battle when testing your later version and it worked fine for me

pls check that you are using the version with the gate anim assigned to the gate and not the wall one (from the much earlier version) - if the gate anim is in and you still have the problem please post the files again - also please confirm again what you're loading as - e.g. fort/castle and if it's in campaign or just from custom battle menu.

[UndyingNephalim]

nope....

thought you were fixed now.

I did try ram against gate in custom battle when testing your later version and it worked fine for me

pls check that you are using the version with the gate anim assigned to the gate and not the wall one (from the much earlier version) - if the gate anim is in and you still have the problem please post the files again - also please confirm again what you're loading as - e.g. fort/castle and if it's in campaign or just from custom battle menu.

I must have been using a version without the gate animations. Now it starts up and hovering the cursor over the gate does not cause a CTD. However, now I can't even attack the gate with a ram, it just shows a move cursor and not the attack cursor. I'll attach the files... I'm using the Northern European Fort to test it. Getting a really simple gate to work right is driving me insane...

[makanyane]

erm, problem may be a bug with the latest version = as the assign animation/collision button doesn't seem to be updating the collision bit

will beat up wilddog tomorrow and make him check this




(have just mentioned this issue to WD and he says blame the testers which = me )


EDIT: meanwhile if you use the assign anim/collision to assign existing animation, then afterwards use create collision + plus check that the breach has been created, and that it has a docking point, then it should work.... slightly earlier versions of IWTE.ex may also work, am not sure when that issue came in.

[leo.civil.uefs]

Makanyane I know about the 4 masks. But Im not talking about this.

The terrain is "painted" automatically by the engine (rock, sand, grass etc), you just need to change the heighs. I want to know if it is possible to paint the terrain by yourself.


Another thing.

Well Im again dealing with dumb AI getting stuck when trying to assault a siege.

After they breake the gate, they send units arround the settlement despite of getting inside through the gate.
The settlement is not that complicated for the AI.

Does anyone have experienced something like this and found any solution?

[UndyingNephalim]

erm, problem may be a bug with the latest version = as the assign animation/collision button doesn't seem to be updating the collision bit

will beat up wilddog tomorrow and make him check this




(have just mentioned this issue to WD and he says blame the testers which = me )


EDIT: meanwhile if you use the assign anim/collision to assign existing animation, then afterwards use create collision + plus check that the breach has been created, and that it has a docking point, then it should work.... slightly earlier versions of IWTE.ex may also work, am not sure when that issue came in.

I went back and added collision to the gate, however whenever I try to Add Object Siege Docking it gives me an "error - Need to add a collision object first" message. Likewise when I go to Add object Breach/Doors it gives me: "error - Pathfinding already exists for this object", which sounds more positive then negative I presume...

[makanyane]

@UndyingNephalim
have had more of a look at your last set of files - problem isn't a bug with the tool (though it might help to have some more 'sanity check' error messages) - at some stage in your messing about with the gate / wall you must have deleted the collision but not the animation - so assign animation didn't have a collision to copy

that set of files seem totally mangled - the black dos command type screen is actually showing that you've got a mismatch between collision / world / anim that I don't think is fixable. I'm not sure if that was just the collision issue or whether at some point you mixed up which .world files went together.


I've extracted your ms3d's from that file and fed them back in to an ne_fort file from scratch (see version attached) - Hopefully you can work from there. I've missed out the haystacks and the palisade wall as I assume they were just left overs. I've added in a ne_large_city wall section - ne_large_city gate, which is larger with an arched top and an aztec_city gate, which is a bit smaller than the ne but flat topped. They are all in complex2 structure0. When you've assigned any animations you want out of those, then just delete that structure from your final version.

I think you will need one of the other gate types - at the moment you have scaled up the fort gate - unfortunately we can't scale the animation - so while its in animation mode it switches back to the smaller gate - that doesn't cause a crash but it does look daft. The city gates are a bit larger so you might be able to use one of those at its original size.

Note that for the gate (and wall if you use the animation for wall breaches) you need to keep the uv mapping the same as the originals (as that is fixed in the animation too) you can change the name of the texture the animation uses to direct it to a different looking file but not the mapping.



Finally in the attached files I've changed the positions that your complexes are assigned to in the "table1 blocks" I've assigned both to using "upper middle blocks" and enlarged the blocks using 'structures' 'resize table1 blocks' - you're meant to keep each complex roughly within it's block see jpg to see how I've set it up - the back end of your big structure should really be seperated out and put in a complex 3 in the block above 1. Getting the blocks out of line doesn't always matter but tends to become a problem if the settlement gets very complex (produces graphics glitch where one vertex of a mesh flickers between appearing in correct place and assigning itself to another structure)


One other tip; when you get the gate / wall whatever working as you want - make sure you don't accidentally wipe it out! If you want to change anything about the ms3d structure it's in use the 'structures' 'write ms3d file-incl damaged' to write out an ms3d file with the current existing object names.... & make sure anything you want to keep goes back in with the correct Eo number and is in the group list before any new additional groups. (The group numbers are per complex so they will change if you increase the number of groups in the earlier structures in that complex.)

[makanyane]

Makanyane I know about the 4 masks. But Im not talking about this.

The terrain is "painted" automatically by the engine (rock, sand, grass etc), you just need to change the heighs. I want to know if it is possible to paint the terrain by yourself.

Only in battle editor - I think you can do some direct texture changes in that... but that gives you the limitation that you can't use battle editor generated maps on a settlement location in the campaign

You can change the distribution of the rock,sand etc and the relationship they have to the heights by fiddling with the descr_geography_new.txt (and hence .db) but that is overall by climate - it's quite hard to get a predictable result. You could say get more small clumps of forest in a particular climate but you couldn't specify exactly where.....

Another thing.

Well Im again dealing with dumb AI getting stuck when trying to assault a siege.

After they breake the gate, they send units arround the settlement despite of getting inside through the gate.
The settlement is not that complicated for the AI.

Does anyone have experienced something like this and found any solution?

Not really - what do they look like they're aiming for? If they are trying to get ladders up it might help to have less assaultable wall positions. On most of mine they seem to use up whatever artillary amo they have on anything breakable and only when that is all used do they get round to using ladders etc & they do try and do that even when there is nice big hole in the wall already

might be more useful to ask in general workshop area, as the battle ai guys might have more idea.

[UndyingNephalim]

@makanyane
Alright your version most definitely works now, though as you said the gate snaps to a smaller size when it opens. Hopefully I'll be able to replicate this on my own.

I was confused on the whole complex process, as I did not really see much information in the tutorials that explained how to make them. Seeing your thumbnail though is making me facepalm at how obvious it is as to what the tiles are.

I suppose I'll just model the entire city and then try to put it in ITWE bit by bit at this point. I'll be adding another gate so hopefully I won't find a way to break IWTE then.

[Germanicu5]

(...)
Another thing.

Well Im again dealing with dumb AI getting stuck when trying to assault a siege.

After they breake the gate, they send units arround the settlement despite of getting inside through the gate.
The settlement is not that complicated for the AI.

Does anyone have experienced something like this and found any solution?

There are 2 groups of factors you should be looking into:

1. AI itself (config_ai_battle.xml mostly) - maybe try alternative one and see if it does any different.

EDIT: If settlement is hardly reachable (for instance from one direction), better set max one plaza assault group of 20 units. This should fix issues with units going around settlements.

<max-plaza-assault-groups>1</max-plaza-assault-groups>
<units-per-plaza-assault-group>20</units-per-plaza-assault-group>

2. Settlement design:

a) what wall level settlement really has vs .worldpkgdesc setting
( a good example of how AI can be messed up is creating a settlement with no walls and making it large_city - AI builds siege equipment then and is incapable of performing a proper plaza assault)

b) you need to assign each wall-enclosed section to right perimeter

c) deployment zone needs to be correct

d) you need a plaza as it's the main target for AI (obvious, but still worth mentioning)

e) correct deployment blocks, mainobjects, door, links, docking, defense points won't hurt.

Regards

[AnArmyofAnts]

the "Start-Up-Kit" link doesn't work http://www.gamefront.com/files/17563637/large_city.rar/

[leo.civil.uefs]

1. AI itself (config_ai_battle.xml mostly) - maybe try alternative one and see if it does any different.

EDIT: If settlement is hardly reachable (for instance from one direction), better set max one plaza assault group of 20 units. This should fix issues with units going around settlements.

<max-plaza-assault-groups>1</max-plaza-assault-groups>
<units-per-plaza-assault-group>20</units-per-plaza-assault-group>

would this change AI action in one specific settlement or the AI for the entire game?

[makanyane]

config_ai_battle.xml is data level so it would effect everything, except perhaps if you use some sort of mod switcher bat before launching custom battle

though having the ai assault as one larger group would probably help a lot of the sieges (as in vanilla they tend to turn up piecemeal and then rout)

@AnArmyofAnts
don't think I've got a copy - but will try and post something similar - it was basically a settlement reduced to the front section of wall and gate.

[leo.civil.uefs]

thanks for answers

[makanyane]

Just a tought... making siege weapons on walls would be that difficult? I mean, we can place trebuchet or catapult models above walls and then assign fire slots. With tower level 3, we would vave cannon balls beeing shooted. Would be possible to implement the animations of catapults and trebuchets. At least the firing animatons and also maybe destroyed animations.

The only animation that can be associated with the tower level 3 firing is the animation for the projectile it fires.. if you can incorporate what you want into that projectile (including it not disappearing between firing sequences) then maybe, doesn't look likely though

[leo.civil.uefs]

towers works when there is units near to it, so if you place your unit close to a tower you will capture it and it will fire against your enemies.

However, the small wooden towers in cities dont need nearby uits to work. They dont even had a flag to indicate wich side controls it.

How can I set a tower to be permanently working like that?

[makanyane]

STARTER KIT

I've put a replacement starter kit here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=3596
as reported above the link to the original one supplied by KingKong is kaput
My version is different so will not necessarily match everything described in his tutorial.

The "starter kit for IWTE" download contains files named to be used in place of the existing north_european castle_a - to install it as that unzip folder and place 'castle' folder at
mod-folder/data/settlements/north_european/castles/castle

Please do not replace any existing files without making back-up copy of them (or re-name existing files to avoid overwriting).

I've included copies of the wall and gate animations most likely to be useful; these are the three heights of stone walls, a portculis gate and large and medium swing gates.



This post will be referenced from the download - I'll try and update the post in reference to any questions purely about how to proceed from the Starter Kit.

[makanyane]

towers works when there is units near to it, so if you place your unit close to a tower you will capture it and it will fire against your enemies.

However, the small wooden towers in cities dont need nearby uits to work. They dont even had a flag to indicate wich side controls it.

How can I set a tower to be permanently working like that?

that's not via IWTE /world files you need;
descr_walls.txt
and change the 'manned bit' ie. from

	tower
	{
		full_health 600
		control_area_radius 30
		manned 1

to

	tower
	{
		full_health 600
		control_area_radius 30
		manned 0

for that wall level

it will affect all settlements with that wall level (and all cultures)

[nessj999]

hey mak and wilddog,

i already PMd you but i should better put it here,
have you seen that 1648 is released, including the cannon-walls ?

so maybe we can now find out how it works !
isnt that great or something ?

[makanyane]

thanks ness - I do intend to have a look at it
(at the current rate of the download that should be sometime in January )

[leo.civil.uefs]

I really dont know how it works and if it is possible to improve it but I would really be happy if the pathfinding amending in IWTE would be less laggy.
Not a complaining, just a opinion.

or maybe it is just with me that it happens?