IWTE - World editing - (General Discussion)

[wilddog]

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilddog View Post
short notice .. unless anyone finds a drastic bug to pre-empt this.
The next version of IWTE will be version 6_0 tied to some new terrain functionality.
Sounds great! I have a question: When I update the referenced paths, the IWTE forces me to leave a .worldPathfinding direction. Is that nessecary for adding the techtree models?
Yesterday 07:48 PM

Typical, I knew I shouldn't of posted that

Yes, I fixed the issue in a version we are using but because no one had raised it (until now) I sort of forgot about that. The fix will be in the next version.

[wilddog]

Yes, I fixed the issue in a version we are using but because no one had raised it (until now) I sort of forgot about that. The fix will be in the next version.

and here it is. Decided to release it quickly as people were asking on some of the features and its the easiest way to get it fully tested.


New with version 6_0 - mostly around new main tab Veg
1) Ability to convert veg model to MS3d file and convert MS3d back to Vege_model file.
2) Read a vegetation.db file
3) write a vegetation.db file
4) write a vegetation text file for edditing via a text editor
5) read the vegetation text file back (note minimal validation so use at your own risk)
6) Ability to add, delete or change the list of names of the vegemodel and sprite files used by vegetation.db
7) ability to change the vegetation group characteristics
8) corrected ability to save a tech tree without a pathfinding file.
9) added ability to update animation paths in the world file.

Note for the vegetation.db files you have to remember to save. It doesn't do that automatically.
Items 5 and 6 address the main editing via the IWTE screens and therefore with some drop down lists for ease.

The text file has been laid out as simple as I could think to allow for text editing of the other entries however there is no validation against what you do. It does allow for further experimenting. Many of the limits are hard coded limits in the game though. There are also some fields which we don't understand.

Just to repeat Please ensure you back up any files first!

For sprites unfortunately it looks like its likely to remain needing to take snap shots and make up the TGA entries. The sprite records aren't that detailed so will probably add in something for that a bit later.

[Devils_Advocate]

Very very great, can´t wait to get my hands on new vegetation!
It seems not to be possible to get reflective planes into different heights?

[makanyane]

It seems not to be possible to get reflective planes into different heights?

WD was still going to try another test on that - at least as far as having natural water (like sea or river) at edge of map, and reflective plane at different height, to see if that worked for settlements that needed a difference.... had you ever previously tried that route???

[wilddog]

Very very great, can´t wait to get my hands on new vegetation!
It seems not to be possible to get reflective planes into different heights?

Well we've done a lot of test this morning and it seems :-
1) You can't add two reflective planes at different heights.
2) You can add a reflective plane and still see a reflective plane from a river. However if the two get too close the river disappears (Makanyane will show some screen shots).
3) I did a lot of tests tying to add a reflective plane to a settlement where I had a river meeting the sea and could only get the new reflective plane to turn up. The river and sea had no water. Removing the reflective plane and the sea returned. This may be due to height differences between the planes but I stopped any further tests at this time.

[makanyane]

2) You can add a reflective plane and still see a reflective plane from a river. However if the two get too close the river disappears (Makanyane will show some screen shots).

That's as close as I managed to get them - you might be able to get a bit closer by trial and error, but if the reflective plane overlapped the river water then the river water disappeared so you definitely need a land terrain break between them

the 'river' in those shots is made by creating the max (251 currently) size terrain and dropping the edge where it meets the campaign map generated actual river at the edge of the battlemap and cutting a channel in the terrain deep enough for the water to flow in...

[Devils_Advocate]

That's as close as I managed to get them - you might be able to get a bit closer by trial and error, but if the reflective plane overlapped the river water then the river water disappeared so you definitely need a land terrain break between them

the 'river' in those shots is made by creating the max (251 currently) size terrain and dropping the edge where it meets the campaign map generated actual river at the edge of the battlemap and cutting a channel in the terrain deep enough for the water to flow in...

Looks interesting...
Could I put my settlement "into" a river and just heighten the terrain I don´t want to be under water?

[bobbin]

New with version 6_0 - mostly around new main tab Veg
1) Ability to convert veg model to MS3d file and convert MS3d back to Vege_model file.
2) Read a vegetation.db file
3) write a vegetation.db file
4) write a vegetation text file for edditing via a text editor
5) read the vegetation text file back (note minimal validation so use at your own risk)
6) Ability to add, delete or change the list of names of the vegemodel and sprite files used by vegetation.db
7) ability to change the vegetation group characteristics

I'm so glad you guys cracked the vege_model stuff. Well done!

[makanyane]

Looks interesting...
Could I put my settlement "into" a river and just heighten the terrain I don´t want to be under water?

you can't / shouldn't try putting settlement "into" river on campaign map am fairly sure that gives other problems / strat map errors.

If you have UNIQUE* settlement that can be positioned on next campaign map square to river then you can do the thing about extending the terrain size to max ** (& also probably offset the settlement position so it gets closer to the river side) and then play with the terrain to let the river flood the lower areas.

*needs to be unique or at least confined to known spots as otherwise you'll end up with totally daft version if river doesn't exist / is on opposite side...

** max terrain resize (allowed by tool) was increased to nominal size of '251' to accommodate that - that is just about large enough to be able to extend to meet the position of river/sea in next tile - please note though that if you do use that size terrain you can NOT modify it via convert to ms3d option as it has too many verts to open in milkshape - convert to tga and ammend in 2d window options still work though.
(and other note you need to re-size the .worldvegetation file to same size as .worldterrain or game will CTD)

[King Kong]

Thanks a lot for the new version, wilddog and mak.
The additions and improvements are very welcome, as always.

And since you have cracked the M2 vegetation models, I wanted to ask if it may be possible to convert the RTW vegetation models to ms3d, so that it can be imported via the IWTE then?
The reason I ask is because of the awesome vegetation pack that was released by the RS2 team, so that it may be converted to M2...

[intel]

Seconded. Cracking vegetation files could change M2TW modding forever (like IWTE already did ).

[wilddog]

And since you have cracked the M2 vegetation models, I wanted to ask if it may be possible to convert the RTW vegetation models to ms3d, so that it can be imported via the IWTE then?
The reason I ask is because of the awesome vegetation pack that was released by the RS2 team, so that it may be converted to M2...

I haven't looked at the RTW models but MTW2 models are pretty simple so they should be able to be converted. Issue is more tied to the sprites and the two texture files.

One of custom locations is Pamplona at the same map coordinates on the vanilla map of 90 101. Placing a fortification on a terrain imposes a flatness that smooths out the topography of those coordinate points. That said, in some manner in the vanilla game settings, Pamplona is using a unique custom settlement at 90 101 which looks far different than one imposed from the custom battle menu. See the link above, if you're interested.

Any type of settlement comes with a terrain file. In the terrain file there are two basic types of information. The terrain the settlement lies on (usually based around variations of a 0, 0 level and how it merges to the surrounding terrain and separately the information on how the surrounding terrain merges towards a 0,0 height. If the base of the settlement is large and is relatively flat by default you end up with a flat plane. I haven't looked at the castle/settlement involved but basically it depends on the base size and merge factors. Additionally I'm not sure on the orientation that custom battles use as that may give a different result also (I'll let Makanyane experiment with that).

[wilddog]

Of course its the worldterrain. The settlement needs to know what its going to sit on otherwise it would either be too high or look like Pompei after the eruption You can use a hex editor if you want. Basically you will need to hex edit all the points referring to the merge factors in the terrain file but would be better off extending the world terrain size (and pathfinding and the vegetation bits) by just using the IWTE tool. You simply resize then edit as a TGA (or within the tool) and get on with it.

Unfortunately its one of those things you can spend a couple of hours getting use to the basic editing bits with the IWTE or you can walk around in the dark saying you don't have time (to get use to really changing settlement structures takes a lot longer).

The real basics to do what you want to do were in the very early versions of the IWTE tool. You need to keep the height of the settlement the same but sink the areas around it to make the settlement stand out on a high position... its actually that simple.

[makanyane]

Thanks wilddog, I will look for the terrain information. That get's pulled from map, I thought.

the outer edges and general shape get pulled from the campaign map... but the central area - once a settlement is applied - is derived from the settlement's .worldterrain file and the heights and merge factors within that. PLS note though that in RTW and possibly M2 (I need to check) the battlemap orientation regarding the way the defender/attackers line up is switched from north south to east west when you change from campaign map generated battles to custom battles, which would make things look a lot different.

Or do you mean the north_european_castle_a.worldterrain specs versus the south_european_castle_a.worldterrain? Can you use a hex editor to go to a certain hex location to raise and lower the height of the terrain that they sit on?

No currently the north_european_castle_a.worldterrain will be used by all the NE factions - if you want to make it more specific you have to make a copy of the .world and .worldcollision files place them in different folder and have the .world file call a different .worldterrain and then call that .world file by introducing a faction specific pkg file.

The style of battle map model applied appears to be based upon the faction_creator label in the descr_strat. So for example, the north_european castle which sits on flat ground applied to Pamplona results in a lower battle map representation. The normal southern_european castle applied to Pamplona has a different inner layout, and is located on high ground, with an impassible mountain behind it. See attached pictures.

yes it's based on faction creator label - either by faction culture (which is the vanilla version) or you can add variations that are faction specific...

Basically I want to raise and lower the castles to make them more or less defensible, not learn all of the intricacies of IWTE....yet. I'm relishing the day when I can commit time to it.

no that won't work... raising or lowering the .worldterrain associated with the settlement will only detach it from the settlement (i.e. floating castles)

as the adjoining squares of the battle map are generated from the campaign terrain - the only quick way to do what you want is to adjust the height (in campaign map) of the location the settlement is on...

adjusting heights via IWTE would require the settlement to be a unique (or confined to certain points) settlement, and manually exporting -raising- and re-importing - and re-doing collisions and on wall deployment and door positions for all of the structures (not recommended!!)

[makanyane]

I am very interested in the deployable areas for the vanilla battle map models. Looking at KK's tutorial, it appears to be a matter of changing the color of the applied tga from blue to green, so that I can get archers up there. I would guess you could make them deployable, but then they couldn't get down from those places, nor could attacking soldiers get to them from the base unless you completely edit the pathfinding. There are also doors in some of the castle areas that prevent the inner keep from being a deployable area, plus certain hills are non-deployable too.

you have not understood / are mixing up different types of pathfinding /deployment.

the .worldpathfinding file restricts /allows troops to deploy / move at ground level via the tool and tga options, blue = can't move there -- green = can move...

to move on higher levels like walls you need to make 'deployment blocks' which are comprised of deployment table blocks related to each linked flat object and with doors and link/ladders joining them to ground level. - Start from IWTE tool 'paths' section + 'add deployment block' then add deployment block doors to each side of that and then ground level door and link/ladder to the the higher level door (on wall) deployment blocks should have the .worldpathfinding locations below them blocked or they won't work correctly... troops can only move at one height level at a time...

[wilddog]

. Where do I get the # of vertexes per side value from the castle?

It's not the pixel dimensions since it says the x,y values must be no larger than 251.

Open the terrain file with the IWTE tool. Press the Read world terrain file button. The dos/command window will say something like

Request worldterrain file..
from wt section
nrows = 105
ncols = 105
nentries = 11025

The nrows and the ncols is the number of vertices in the x and y directions. Each vertex is 8m apart form the next one.

[makanyane]

@RubiconDecision
the screen shot you were showing (in IWTE) is not actually showing the deployment blocks

the blue colour on the bits of outer wall is actually showing that it is part of 'perimeter one'

to view what is now getting called deployment blocks you need to use the
'View Table Blocks - 2d' button
(sorry some of this stuff is still using the names that KnightErrant gave things before it was discovered what they did....) The 'View Deployment' button is actually showing the 'deployment outline' which is just the max extent the defender can place troops in... nothing to do with whether they can get on walls or not..

with 'view table blocks' you'll get something like :


the pink bits show where the troops can stand on the walls.



To add a new one of those sections you need to know the OBJECT NUMBERS of all the objects that make up the flat plane you want to stand on.

You need to select the object in the OBJECTS LIST screen - not on the 2d screen - then press add selected object - it may then give you a range of heights (eg if you've selected a section with a battlement, you'll want the lower height not the higher two which will just give you bits of battlement!)

then select an ADJACENT object and add that etc...

your biggest problem with this is probably going to be working out which objects are involved - you'll probably have to narrow down which structures are involved (using the view functions) then go through and view individual objects to work it out.....

4) When I tried to add a ground level door, it would work either.

Adding a ground level door should work - but note the NEXT thing you do must be to join it to an already existing deployment block door by adding link/ladder path - or the tool will decide it's not in use and delete it again....

Most users are probably not going to want to learn Milkshape and design a castle from scratch. That's an art. We might want to, but it's a quantum leap from making minor editing changes to the castle.

maybe except that you will find out there are some disadvantages to trying to find your way around the existing large castles with 3000 + objects...



point taken about pics and getting info together in one place - I'm more likely to get round to doing that than WD, and might try putting something on the wiki...
we weren't originally offering to provide documentation for the tool - but do seem to be answering similar questions a lot anyway....

[wilddog]

@RubiconDecision - No problem if you want to make a more extensive tutorial. I'd suggest though you sue something like stone fort C as an example to first get use to how thing work in IWTE - particularly the deployment blocks. The tool is actually fairly good at that bit and can handle a fairly extensive set of deployment positions but I can't guarantee it will handle all (though Mak actually got it work on something I told her it shouldn't be able to handle)

We don't get asked that many questions. A lot of what we get asked is from people who haven't tried using the tool and experimenting with it. On the other hand there aren't that many that are really using it as it is pretty time consuming.

[wilddog]

Since it's complicated to raise and lower terrain in IWTE, without changing all of your work

Not sure why you think that. If you mean its complicated to change the height of the terrain AND the settlement then yes that is a lot of work. If you mean just changing the terrain base itself then that isn't that hard and you can do it via
- a TGA or
- importing the terrain into the tool and editing each vertex there or
- via milkshape if the milkshape limits aren't exceeded.

You can make more variety by keeping settlements relatively small and then using the terrain base to decide how much is fixed to the settlement model and how much you want to vary due to the surrounding geography from the campaign map map_heights file.

Yes Rozanov has made changes to several settlements. The suggestion of the stone fort C was not because it needed any changes but because its a simple model to use for you to experiment with and understand how to use the tool.

However on a separate issue I released a version 6_1.

Its only a minor update but it allows people to text edit the sprite files in case they want to try and generate their own sprites (they would need to copy or create their own DDS/texture files though).

There is also an option to view a TGA .. its something I wanted to experiment with later but thought some people may have a use for it.

[wilddog]

current version is 6_1_1 from June 6th 2011.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2741

New with version 6_1_1 - bug fix. Crash occurs when assigning/picking animations tied to gates (it was introduced in version 6_0).

Sorry about that I loaded the wrong version of the animinstances files as I was doing some testing.