OUT OF DATE Jedi Mod 1.22

[Myshkin]

OK converted what I had to Darthmod 5.0 beta 4 and added your stuff on top... Now going for dinner.

Hope will release the new version in the evening. What is the flank attack left, right etc?

Troops get a morale penalty when attacked at their flanks, rear etc (and I increased it further from Dathmod).

Does it make sense the others will shoot them better if they shoot on their arse? Or is it affecting melee? Please explain.

[Isabelxxx]

There are 2 factors when attacking at enemy flanks/rear:
Moral:
Darth mod
was_attacked_in_flank -3
was_attacked_in_front 0
was_attacked_in_rear -5
Jedi Mod
was_attacked_in_flank -5
was_attacked_in_front 0
was_attacked_in_rear -10

And factor attack:
DM & Jedi
factor_attackdir_flankleft 10
factor_attackdir_flankright 10
factor_attackdir_front 10
factor_attackdir_rear 10

Jedi fix
factor_attackdir_flankleft 15
factor_attackdir_flankright 15
factor_attackdir_front 10
factor_attackdir_rear 20

[Myshkin]

Yup.

My question is what does the second do? Does it give eg. increasing accuracy? It wouldn't make sense to me if you get a bonus to shoot someone's back than his face.

I am happy to change it, as long as I know what it does, and why is it a justified change.

BTW what are your views on side flank and rear morale penalties? Do you think -4, -7 would be better? I always thought when you look in front and you an enemy, then you look behind you see another, then you go "Oh,..."

[Silu]

But is this general attack factor or melee attack factor? If melee, it has perfect sense to sustain heavier loses while being attacked from the rear or flank.

Hm... after a while of thinking I've realized that attacking with muskets from the rear or flank should cause more casualties too. Why? Because it's easier to shoot at unit without being under heavy fire. It's easier too shoot at unit, which is turned, engaged with some others fights and not firing back. HOWEVER it's very hard to introduce, because it would only work well if attacker from flank/rear is not a unit under any other fire. And during battles nearly all units pushed forward are under fire

[Isabelxxx]

Yup.

My question is what does the second do? Does it give eg. increasing accuracy? It wouldn't make sense to me if you get a bonus to shoot someone's back than his face.

I am happy to change it, as long as I know what it does, and why is it a justified change.

BTW what are your views on side flank and rear morale penalties? Do you think -4, -7 would be better? I always thought when you look in front and you an enemy, then you look behind you see another, then you go "Oh,..."

My opinion:

Jedi Mod
was_attacked_in_flank -4
was_attacked_in_front -1
was_attacked_in_rear -7

Values should be useful for Surprise attack (rear, flanks) in spite of being accurate in realistic terms.

BTW what are your views on side flank and rear morale penalties? Do you think -4, -7 would be better? I always thought when you look in front and you an enemy, then you look behind you see another, then you go "Oh,..."

I know it but the problem is that this is a game and we have to change it for better working. If ETW was a better game, with better IA, more realistic...
Other thing I would put -1 (front). For this reason. Troops which are not fighting will not be affected, but units which will fight with an enemy should have a -1, I think (they are no heroes...).

About factor atack is supposed that is the bonus attack for Flanks and Rear (for melee only). Units which are attacked in their flanks (or rear) should have a moral penalty and more deceases.
Anyway we have to test it.

EDIT: A crazy thing, what do you think guys?

Jedi fix
factor_attackdir_flankleft 16 +1 because units are usually trained on using right hand (strategies, movements and a soldier is usually right-handed), so an atack on the left side should cause more casualties
factor_attackdir_flankright 15
factor_attackdir_front 10
factor_attackdir_rear 20

[Silu]

actor_attackdir_flankleft 16 +1 because units are usually trained on using right hand (strategies, movements and a soldier is usually right-handed), so an atack on the left side should cause more casualties
factor_attackdir_flankright 15
factor_attackdir_front 10
factor_attackdir_rear 20

Heh I'm not so sure. Maybe we should focus first on balancing some more basic things.

[Myshkin]

No at all, I was thinking of it as well.

It was used heavilly in M2TW. Many units had better arrow protection from the left because of their shield... It's a good bonus for melee and defence, but does it also affect shooting? (You shouldn't shoot better when aiming at their left or right hand side, don't you agree?)

There is also a surprise factor in morale: ume_concerned_surprised -7

So, can you please test:

factor_attackdir_flankright 15
factor_attackdir_front 10
factor_attackdir_rear 20

was_attacked_in_flank -4
was_attacked_in_front -1
was_attacked_in_rear -7

Accepted

[Isabelxxx]

So, can you please test:

factor_attackdir_flankright 15
factor_attackdir_front 10
factor_attackdir_rear 20

And
factor_attackdir_flankleft 15 ?

DM is updated, as I said:

A better idea is add all tables (DM lite) as you have done and add the modified lines as I have done in new tables with the prefix Jedi_ or other word (it depends on order of loading). The modified tables have to be loaded after Darth tables.
With these structure we can do any change without problems and is easier.

You will see now that doing this is easier.

[Myshkin]

I am processing the tables with MATLAB and I prefer to have them altogether. It's very easy for me though to add any changes you make.

I have updated my version to the latest DM (5.0 beta4). Yet I haven't uploaded because I am running balance tests.

So do you have any idea what the "factor_attack parameters" do?

[Silu]

Would you guys describe at the end what are the changes comparing to darthmod? I will be grateful.

And if I understood it right, your mod will be a kind darthmod patch, which will replace some of its values, hm? Or a standalone mod like previous versions?

[Myshkin]

Standalone. I don't like multiple files. They confuse people.

Sure, I will describe. This mod is optimised for vanilla size though.

[Isabelxxx]

How do you do it? matrices?

So do you have any idea what the "factor_attack parameters" do?

Is the bonus attack for Flanks and Rear for melee only. Units which are attacked in their flanks will have a moral penalty and more deceases now.
Cavalry will no have a lot of deceases when attacking infantry's flanks/rear but infantry will be destroyed

[Myshkin]

Yes, matrices.

Many, many thanks. I will glady adopt it.

10
16
15
20

Will also release lite version for you to test.

[Isabelxxx]

Yes, matrices.

Many, many thanks. I will glady adopt it.

10
16
15
20

Will also release lite version for you to test.

I'm expecting it.

Yes, matrices.

I know programming with Mathlab so I will try to do the same... I never thought about it.

[Myshkin]

@Isabelxxx Here are the tables in a download friendly version especially for you. I think you are a smart guy, so you can make it work with DM.

Can I have your first opinion please?

Changes include briefly...

Compatible to DM v5.0
Unit size reduced to vanilla size.
Deployed ranks optimised to vanilla size.
Reworked all units melee stats.
Removed double HPs for cavalry and Elephants now have 8HPs (like vanilla)
Cavalry got a major proportional boost in melee defense
Cavalry size increased (20%), but it is smaller than the half of an infantry regiment
Cavalry receives strong bonus when fighting infantry in melee combat
European cavalry is now more expensive in the campaign (some very expensive indian native units have still the same cost)
MP units half in cost (so people can test bigger battles)
Infantry got a proportional boost in melee
Square formation is more powerful
Flanking has now more noticeable effects on morale (rear flanking more than side flanking)
Melee flanking is now more powerful (thanks to Isabelxxx)
Puckle guns fixed (thanks to Isabelxxx)
Units have 30% more ammunition
Increased kill ratio (~5%)
Naval guns and accuracy now scales with the size of the guns
6lb_naval_guns replaced by 6lb_naval_guns_lt due to their buggy behaviour
Large and Star Forts replaced by Stockade and Wooden Fort (so siege gameplay gets enhanced. I admit though these huge star forts were perfect eye candies!)
Siege defenders on walls receive slightly higher boni in terms of accuracy, range and reloading

I hope I haven't forgotten anything! Pfew! After this, we will fix the inactive techs.

I am slowly uploading the whole version in 4shared, so the full version will be available today.

Thanks


EDIT: Here it is... JediMod

[Isabelxxx]

@Isabelxxx Here are the tables in a download friendly version especially for you. I think you are a smart guy, so you can make it work with DM.

Can I have your first opinion please?

Changes include briefly...

Compatible to DM v5.0
Unit size reduced to vanilla size.
Deployed ranks optimised to vanilla size.
Reworked all units melee stats.
Removed double HPs for cavalry and Elephants now have 8HPs (like vanilla)
Cavalry got a major proportional boost in melee defense
Cavalry size increased (20%), but it is smaller than the half of an infantry regiment
Cavalry receives strong bonus when fighting infantry in melee combat
European cavalry is now more expensive in the campaign (some very expensive indian native units have still the same cost)
MP units half in cost (so people can test bigger battles)
Infantry got a proportional boost in melee
Square formation is more powerful
Flanking has now more noticeable effects on morale (rear flanking more than side flanking)
Melee flanking is now more powerful (thanks to Isabelxxx)
Puckle guns fixed (thanks to Isabelxxx)
Units have 30% more ammunition
Increased kill ratio (~5%)
Naval guns and accuracy now scales with the size of the guns
6lb_naval_guns replaced by 6lb_naval_guns_lt due to their buggy behaviour
Large and Star Forts replaced by Stockade and Wooden Fort (so siege gameplay gets enhanced. I admit though these huge star forts were perfect eye candies!)
Siege defenders on walls receive slightly higher boni in terms of accuracy, range and reloading

I hope I haven't forgotten anything! Pfew! After this, we will fix the inactive techs.

I am slowly uploading the whole version in 4shared, so the full version will be available today.

Thanks


EDIT: Here it is... JediMod

I can't promise nothing but I will try it (now I'm using other PC and ETW works really slowly with it).

About DM sizes, You have done something? Or Do I do it?

[Myshkin]

Have a go on it as it is, then if you like it do it.

I am not in a hurry at all (for feedback). Tomorrow, or the day after will be fine.

[Isabelxxx]

Have a go on it as it is, then if you like it do it.

I am not in a hurry at all (for feedback). Tomorrow, or the day after will be fine.

Ok. I will do it.

[Myshkin]

I think it runs fine in ultra DM size, but I can't guarantee. My tests were based on large vanilla size.

Check out v1.21...

[Myshkin]

Guys, what would you like: replace the whole tech tree from APE, or just replace fire and advance and platoon fire?

Some feedback would be great. APE seems to change the tech tree a lot (eg recruit early light infantry), which may distrort things in Darthmod. What do you think?