Why Annexing isn't done anymore ?

[Harry7]

I'm trying to find the turning points when annexing was effectively immoral and inefficient for Western nations. Looking at history, until the 1950s, annexing was common place and nations were able to control other countries for purely political gain, with no moral cause, such as the Spanish empire in Europe, with bits and pieces being occupied with no racial or cultural ties, such as Holland. Also how did the British empire manage to control all their provinces, I know there were revolts, but surely not the long campaigns of attrition we have in recent times in Vietnam and Iraq ?

Is it because of free press in the west which enables the masses to know about the conflict and occupation process, which means the authorities have to justify these actions, such as Iraq was over WMDs and ousting Saddam, and then they are not annexing the country, which would really help oil ? And in places like China and the USSR (when it existed) annexion has occurred and they had state biased press.

Or is it because of the abundance of weaponry and the ease of use, in medieval times, the local population would not be able to resist as well as they would only have a knife and other basic weapons, and would not be a match for a state trained and equipped troops ?

Or has societies perception of nation states changed, if Britain were to outright annex another country, there would be massive public outcry and international pressure would be enormous, also does the democratic system eliminate the opportunity to annex ? Maybe American influence after WW2 helped, as apparently Roosevelt joked to Churchill about how the British wanted to occupy more territory after the war (I think in Asia Minor) and it had to stop.

I am not a closet imperialist ect :wink: , in fact I find to obsession with borders rather stupid, I was just curious over why it stopped.

[Tiwaz]

West has given up on idea of annexation for two reasons mainly.

1) It is damn difficult to justify to population. Even if leaders would like nothing more they have to be able to lie to people to make them think that course of action is just and good. Today that is much more difficult in west thanks to reduced importance of religion and more efficient travel of information.

2) Bad experiences. Majority of Europe for example have experienced in last century what war really is like. Specially second world war left clear image of realities of warfare in the collective conciousness. That makes them far less likely to accept idea of invasion and annexation knowing the cost in human suffering.
Guess you could say that Europe has finally had it with pointless bloodshed.

[Rolanbek]

Since the popularising of Asymmetric warfare, no government can be confident of keeping order after an annexation.

The only way for an annexation to work now would be the extermination of the locals. Clearly a war crimes trial waiting to happen.

In short it is too much trouble.

R

[SovietDoom]

Not if you win the war.

You think the Nazis would have been subjected to war crimes if they won?

[Rolanbek]

True, but barring a global domination agenda my point still stands.

R

[SovietDoom]

Well then we should have someone conquer the world and see how it works out.

The USA should do it, because Im American, and America can win if we play it smart.

[Rolanbek]

Too many people would protest the human rights issue. Too much trouble for the government.

R

[Valus]

Well then we should have someone conquer the world and see how it works out.

The USA should do it, because Im American, and America can win if we play it smart.

Of course you can

[MaximiIian]

Too many people would protest the human rights issue.

Shoot them then. When it comes to the government, they can do anything. They are above the law, because they are the law.

[SovietDoom]

Give US citizenship to anyone who fights for America. Also, instead of outright conquering the territories, we just make them into a confederation of nations, much like the Articles of Confederation, but stronger.

[Erik]

I'm trying to find the turning points when annexing was effectively immoral and inefficient for Western nations.

It's inefficient because the costs of a war hardly ever outweight the profits from the annexed region.

In the old days fertile land was a source for great wealth, and often worth fighting a couple of wars over.
But today only very strategic areas, or areas with lots of natural resources are worth it.
Europe has some natural resources like gas and oil, but I don't think any area has enough to pay back the costs of conquering it.

And secondly annexing a region doesn't make you popular with other western countries.
Even if you annex a nice oilfield, if your neighbours create a trade embargo against you you are going to loose much more than you gained.

I don't know why it's considered immoral.
But I think it is because people care little for annexing (since there is no financial gain), and because people beleive in democracy and don't want their government to annex and oppress regions where other people live.

[MaximiIian]

Give US citizenship to anyone who fights for America. Also, instead of outright conquering the territories, we just make them into a confederation of nations, much like the Articles of Confederation, but stronger.

What, Rome style?
Seems appropriate, since we based our political and legal system on a combonation of Roman and Anglo-Saxon laws and methods.

[SovietDoom]

Hell yes.

[Rolanbek]

Okay, so the Question about why we don't annex any more is probaly best answered with:

Because it is Very hard work and politically suicidal on the international stage. Unless you have the kind of government who likes to wade to dominance through knee deep blood while darting nimbly around a couple of million corpses.

(meglomaniacs of the world, fight! You have nothing to lose but your thorazine.)

R

[removeduser_487563287433]

Empires have long bills.

[Rolanbek]

So do pelicans.

R

[removeduser_487563287433]

Hilarious. Totally. The least obvious joke this year so far.

[Owain_Glyndwr]

There are two reasons why any nation can't just annex another anymore (check out the alliteration). First is the United States. Second is Nuclear Weapons. Scratch that, the only reason right now is the United States, they dont need nukes to turn any country to a wasteland. But during the Cold War, you try to annex another nation, and one of the two superpowers will support you, one wont. Either you withdraw, or you've got Nuclear Holocaust. Not a nice conclusion.

[Tiwaz]

There are two reasons why any nation can't just annex another anymore (check out the alliteration). First is the United States. Second is Nuclear Weapons. Scratch that, the only reason right now is the United States, they dont need nukes to turn any country to a wasteland. But during the Cold War, you try to annex another nation, and one of the two superpowers will support you, one wont. Either you withdraw, or you've got Nuclear Holocaust. Not a nice conclusion.

Where did the nukes go?

They are still there. That is what is keeping USA in check for time being.
Also, another reason for less interest in annexation is increased dependance on one another. When you try to annex a nation you are going to interfere with interests of another nation and if they consider it bothersome enough they will take action and join the fight.

Doesn't matter how strong you are, others will band up when you start to threathen their vital interests and you will eventually face enemy too powerful for you to defeat.

[Rex331]

Most Americans do not want to expand the borders of The US simply because they do not want to expand citizenship to that many more people. The old way of Imperialism simply does not apply to the modern world. Can you imagine if Mexico and Canada became part of the US and were given full citizenship? The government would go completely bankrupt and the economy of the US and the world would plummet. Puppet governments work far better in the modern world, and can be refreshed from time to time for short time uses. It might not look as impressive on the globe, but it works.