Hoplites Vs Other Units

[kdub22]

OK so while it may take a unit or, or even an army predominantly made up of Hoplites quite a while to kill all their enemies, they're still very good at it. Apart from having decent attack, their armour and defensive skill is usually so that the hoplites of Greece are by far the best infantry in the game from some aspects.
However, this has meant that I've run into more than a few problems playing as anyone other than the Hellenic factions.
Whenever I play as Persia, after conquering the Medians, Babylonians and Egyptians, having to deal with the Ionians, who've usually taken over most of or all of Asia Minor at this point, or the Kyrenians, who usually expand into Egypt. I get my arse handed to me in most of my battles with them simlpy because there are no spearmen that can really stand up to hoplites. Even the persian Anusyia will lose to average hoplites. To make matters worse, cavalry are terrible against them, even if I skirmish them as much as possible first, and even when I attack from the sides or back while enemy hoplites are distracted by my infantry and archers, they still often take huge losses, if not I still lose them all together. On top of that, I've also noticed that archers cannot seem to do anything against the armour that the hoplites wear, either. So all three main prongs of an Eastern attack are usually thwarted by this one, almost "hack" unit that the Greek factions get a few variations of. While you can later recruit hoplites in conquered areas of Lydia and Ionia. I often have to exterminate those settlements as they're so far away from my capital and have different government structures, so recruiting regional troops isn't an immediate option and mercenary hoplites are pretty thin on the ground, too.

Rather than whinge and ask how I'd go about making my archers more powerful or anything like that. I'd just like to know if anyone has any tactics or strategies that they use against hoplites that seem to do the job fairly well for them.
If anyone has anything to share I'd really appreciate it as it annoys me quite a bit trying to take Asia Minor off the Ionians and having all my troops do effectively nothing to them. So far my only real "strategy" or advantage fighting Ionia and Kyrene was that by the time I fight them I'm usually backed by a much bigger empire than them. So I can just keep sending army after army after army into the region and just overwhelm them with numbers. I'd just rather have some sort of sound strategy that doesn't involve me sending half a dozen full stacks in to knock out an army or two of theirs.

[rez]

This is very interesting to me because I have always used flanking units, usually cavalry, to outmaneuver the cumbersome phalanxes and finish them with a charge to the rear.

It seems that this isn't working out as intended for everyone else. I'll have to run some tests with hoplites and see if Nero and i can come up with a solution to them being tanks on the field.


It would really help us out if everyone else could talk about their experiences with them.

[Achea]

In my Campaign as Athens, my Penda (not evan going to try this one) Hoplites sustained very heavy causualties from Horse Archers as I pushed further and further east int Asia Minor- look into recruiting them.

[kdub22]

Yeah since I started another Persian campaign, I've been experimenting with lots of horse archers and just generally large numbers of foot archers in my armies. So far it seems to go pretty well. I tried using these kind of tactics on hoplites in a custom battle and went surprisingly well. That being said. In my Persian campaign I haven't fought any hoplites yet and I'm a little too occupied to attack Ionia (Lydia seem to have been able to fend them off thus far). But hopefully I should see soon enough.

[Horse Archer]

First of all, you have to notice that a unit under missle fire takes a hit to its morale, which can be even worse if the hoplites try to pursue your units, get tired, and take more casualties than if they were standing. Also, missles are significantly more effective from the sides or rear (Though I think they're not quite as effective from the rear as they should be in this mod. Shields are very effective against arrows, but armor, even hoplite armor, from this period is still not very reliable against very fast projectiles. But this is a very minor issue.).

So, once you have exhausted and demoralized the enemy hoplites with your fast troops (Make sure to take out their light troops in the process.), what do you do?
If you don't feel you have the striking power to finish them, simply withdraw. However, even light cavalry can take out hoplites that have been under arrow or javelin fire. With your faster army, you can easily outmaneuver the enemy and concentrate your charges. Either rush in your infantry and do some hammer-and-anvil, or just strike from different sides with cavalry. Make sure not to leave your cavalry in meele as they WILL die very quickly, but do a series of cycle charges to take advantage of your massive beasts (It's surprisingly easy to underestimate how big and strong a horse is, and very easy to underestimate how vulnerable it is if it's just standing there.).

I've used these tactics in my war against Ionia (as Lydia, using mostly light troops in my battles), and I've easily won all my battles, some when outnumbered.

[Ferdiad]

IMHO playing as a Greek faction it should be all about quality not quantity with your Hoplites,It would create a better imersion factor for me.

[Horse Archer]

Just remember you're smarter than the AI, which fudges it's troops all over the battlefield, while you can concentrate your force and maneuver much better. Good luck with your campaign

[Apollyon]

I haven't played this mod yet, but maybe increasing the hoplite recruitment and upkeep costs to prevent them being fielded in huge numbers by the AI?