Conditions in third world - thoughts after Katrina

[Boudicca]

I have been watching CNN News reports during the last few days. And I think you all would agree that the conditions in New Orleans are completely unbearable. And many of you may also agree, that we all appreciate that those people are getting helped.

What scares the hell out of me is the fact, that many people keep telling "I haven't seen such health / crime etc... conditions since Somalia. Or: It all looks like some African third world country...

What troubles me is the following: Watching the conditions in the US and in the regions affected, they seem almost unbearable to me. Now, considering the statements made on TV it seems like such conditions exist on a every day basis in some parts of the world!

What is to be done about that? Why is it that when it comes to our countries, we find such things unbearable (which seems inavetable to me) but still tolerate what happens in African "third world" countries?

[Valerius Maximus]

and not just in the 3rd world, there's plenty of people living in poverty in "rich" countries, people who struggle to get food in the table, homeless,...

[Lord Ashley]

I don't think you can really compare the problems in New Orleans with the third world.

We tolerate what happens in Africa because we have no control over it, nor do the leaders we elect. But I think it's a good point by Valerius to mention that not everyone who lives in the supposedly rich 'west' is rolling in money.

[Erik]

What scares the hell out of me is the fact, that many people keep telling "I haven't seen such health / crime etc... conditions since Somalia. Or: It all looks like some African third world country...

What troubles me is the following: Watching the conditions in the US and in the regions affected, they seem almost unbearable to me. Now, considering the statements made on TV it seems like such conditions exist on a every day basis in some parts of the world!

I grew up in the a 3rd world African country: Ghana.
And I've also been in Mali (one of the poorest countries in the world, if not THE poorest), and Burkina Faso.

And conditions there are MUCH better than in NO today.

New Orleans does look like a 3rd world country during/right after a natural disaster or during a war.
But daily life in a 3rd world country is much better.

[Boudicca]

Erik...that somewhat calms me down. I had been so worried after hearing all this talk about "I've seen that last time in..." What you just said is exactly what I hoped for. Response from someone who knows conditions first hand.

[PacSubCom]

Even if "daily life" in the third world is much better than in a sunken city, there are many examples of irregular situations that are all too regular, like the Afrcan World War in Kongo with millions dead in the past few years. This war is essentially about resources, with 1st world high tech industry as the main customer. And nobody tells me that our elected leaders can't do something about it. Or industry is paying anyone, as long as it's are cheap. No one cares that the warlords are using the money for weapons to continue with genocidal wars. Just one example where industrial states can wield much influence. Not done.

Welcome to the wonderful world of double-speak, double dealing, dubious morals and blatant racism. Bleeding hearts have asked these questions since time immemorial, but the answer they get is regime change in oil countries.

[nik2063]

funny thing.... america tries to be world police and "helps" everywhere on the world an then they cant even get enough water to their own people after a long predicted disaster. total failure of the involved forces.
maybe the people realize now that bush shouldnt make holiday all the time. hm okay maybe its better he doesnt do anything...

[Caelius]

funny thing.... america tries to be world police and "helps" everywhere on the world an then they cant even get enough water to their own people after a long predicted disaster. total failure of the involved forces.

It never ceases to amaze me how people like you choose a time like this to bring out resentment of the US when 1.) A tradgedy of this scale was never anticipated by any one. 2.) What the hell do you expect to occur after a complete and total loss of civil and social order in a huge urban area virtually overnight?

[the Black Prince]

people are used to their comforts, their luxuries, their lifestyle.

take it away from them, or from someone like them, and thats shocking, disturbing. it brings it home to you that you could end up like that one day


show them the same thing happening in a different country, and its easy to shrug it off, "thats just africa, sad, but those sorta things happen there... " until you see the devastation in places like New Orleans, the africa situation can't happen to us, with out technology and our wealth

how wrong we are

mother nature is even handed to rich and poor alike.

[nik2063]

It never ceases to amaze me how people like you choose a time like this to bring out resentment of the US when 1.) A tradgedy of this scale was never anticipated by any one. 2.) What the hell do you expect to occur after a complete and total loss of civil and social order in a huge urban area virtually overnight?

time like this? damn old story... then this will be posted in 2 weeks. it doesnt matter. i never thought that the us cant react on a environmental disaster like this. they show themselves as the big ones and cant even deliver enough water for the children... they have such a huge army to bring in supplys but the government is simply unable to handle the situation. annoying that such people introduce their talent for organizing things to other countrys as well.

[Boudicca]

Black Prince has really said what I am thinking about all the time. We are dealing with things in Africa as if they were to be "most commonly expected" from the african continent. Even though no matter if African, American, European etc... we are all the same human beings. It somehow really saddens me, I think we waste the potential of people to recognize this essential principle. Thank you for your reply Black Prince.

[Jesus The Inane]

Why do I get this feeling that a lot of you think that poverty is the worst evil in this world?...

Stoicism is the answer...

[the Black Prince]

no, poverty is not the worst evil, its not an evil at all. there are many people in africa who can be poor and happy, because they love life and appreciate what they have.

apathy is evil, to let people suffer needlessly and not do anything about it when we have the resources, the ability, the wealth and the technology, and in the case of america and new orleans, even the duty to do something about it.

[Erik]

no, poverty is not the worst evil, its not an evil at all. there are many people in africa who can be poor and happy, because they love life and appreciate what they have.

That depends on how you define poverty.
If you define poverty as not being able to get the basic life necessities (food, shelter, medicine etc.)
Then poverty is a big evil.
Not many Africans wil say "I can't feed my children and I live on rats infested streets" but I'm happy.

But sure many Africans would say: "I don't own a TV and my house isn't air conditioned" but I'm happy.

In Africa there are a lot of people poor in the first sense.
But they are just a fraction of the total population.

The majority is either poor in the second sense ("not owning a TV poor") or not poor at all.
OK, maybe not many Africans can afford a brand new Hummer with DVD player (I have seen some who do), but most can afford a simple car, TV, and often even a PC with internet (maybe not the gaming monsters, just a second hand Pentium-III for example).

[Jesus The Inane]

Why not that the poor make their own tribe, and then go off hunting animals? Would that be possible?

[Solar]

don't be silly, day-to-day conditions in third world countries don't involve perpetual looting and armed gangs shooting policemen in the streets. this only happens in the event of a war. (which, unfortunately, some third countries DO endure for long periods).

[removeduser_487563287433]

I'm surprised that you had to see it happen to Americans before you could feel empathy.

[Bwaho]

I grew up in the a 3rd world African country: Ghana.
And I've also been in Mali (one of the poorest countries in the world, if not THE poorest), and Burkina Faso.

And conditions there are MUCH better than in NO today.

Now don't take this as a personal insult, but did you grow up there as part of a rich colonial family (like a white settler family)? or did you actually live among the native inhabitants.

[Tom Paine]

don't be silly, day-to-day conditions in third world countries don't involve perpetual looting and armed gangs shooting policemen in the streets. this only happens in the event of a war. (which, unfortunately, some third countries DO endure for long periods).

Actually that is untrue. In some South American cities, for example Rio de Janiero, gangs rule the streets of the districts of the poor, and running battles between police and tthe gangs, or inter-gang wars, exist. Perpetual fire at night exists on certain roads, and the number of guns confiscated from the gangs is insane. And that is without natural disasters. So what were you saying again?

apathy is evil, to let people suffer needlessly and not do anything about it when we have the resources, the ability, the wealth and the technology, and in the case of america and new orleans, even the duty to do something about it.

Amen to that.

[Erik]

Now don't take this as a personal insult, but did you grow up there as part of a rich colonial family (like a white settler family)? or did you actually live among the native inhabitants.

My parents were both doctors at a mission hospital.
We lived among the locals in what westerners would call very basic living conditions, but obviously with a bit more luxeries than the locals.

We were, for example, the only ones with electicity (from a generator) in the village back then.
And we had toiletpaper (locals used leaves and old newspapers).
I think those were the two biggest differences.
All my friends were locals and of course I shared all my toys with them.

Later on my father re-maried with a woman from the same village.
She was the only one of her family who went to university (in the USA).
Americans once asked her if she could adjust to living in a house (they actually beleived all Africans lived in trees).
I thought that was hillarious but she is still angry at the incident.

The village has electicity now, and every family has a TV.
Ghana television is actually pretty good because it's run by art students.

edit: oh, to awnser your question: no, I'm not a cracker, LOL.