Kingdom of Bosnia

[delmat]

I agree with that to a degree (my family are Transylvania Saxons that left after the war), but it's not a westerner's fault when he earnestly asks for info about Eastern Europe and gets a flame war.

friend don't think that you are better than us..this is not a flame war, it's just that some people, like this "bosnian king" that don't even live here in the balkans are teaching us history of our own region and writing stupidities without any historical or logical proof..nobody is trying to convince anyone of his nationality or feelings but some historical facts need to be written before making propaganda conclusions like these imaginary "bosnians".. catholics are not an ethnical nation and in medieval times before the ottoman conquest only ethnical people in bosnia were Croats&Serbs..no "bosnians, catholics, bosniaks" or such ever existed..term "bosnian" was just a regional term not national one..no hard feelings to anyone

[NikeBG]

I agree with that to a degree (my family are Transylvania Saxons that left after the war), but it's not a westerner's fault when he earnestly asks for info about Eastern Europe and gets a flame war.

True, true...

[dabela]

I agree with delmat... Just take the example of Mehmed Selimovic and Emir Kusturica... They realised that they arent "bosniaks" and that they are Serbs who were transfered to islam...

[Gigantus]

If this thread doesn't get back to topic some measures will have to be taken. Foreign language outside the designated fora is against the ToS as well. Gentlemen (and Gentlewomen?) consider yourselves warned.

[Gigantus]

Was I really that unclear?

[matija191]

Just a small question: for what bosnians had "longbows"(monobloc) when whereas many peoples around them had used the composite bow. Greeks, Magyars, Turks had the composite?

and Croats also used composite bows ...for your question I dont have any answer...maybe because the Bosnia region was backwarded.

[VINC.XXIII]

Croats? I don't knew, to all periods? Have you more informations on that? The occidentals(in general rules) no had used the composite bow.

[matija191]

Croats? I don't knew, to all periods? Have you more informations on that? The occidentals(in general rules) no had used the composite bow.

well Croats used composite bows mostly in 8th and 9th century....there is also a stone relief in Trogir from 13th century which,by some historians represent soldier with composite bow:

[VINC.XXIII]

ok thanks for the info, I will know more on this thread

[matija191]

ok thanks for the info, I will know more on this thread

no problem

[Kulin]

Just tell me:
Was the kingdom of Bosnia weak when king forge his own golden coins?
Was the kingdom of Bosnia weak when kings marry Bulgarian, Poland, Catalan, Hungarian and other princesses?
Was the kingdom of Bosnia part of Croatia or Croatia was a part of Bosnia when king Tvrtko I proclaim himself by the mercy of God (not mercy of any other king) famous King of Rascia, Bosnia, Dalmatia, Croatia, the Seaside...,
Does ever, ever in charts, chronicles or other documents say that in Bosnia lives Croatian or Serbian people? From the beginning of the state christian and bogomil people lived together in peace. Later, by conquering Hum from Rascia king orthodox people become part of Bosnia. People of Bosnia never war wit each other no mater what religion he belong. Initiator of all wars was the Pope (wit his 12 crusades on Bosnia) and border Knights of other countries.
Bosnian bans never be catholic (proved by ban Kulin who was heretic and Ban Ninoslav who fight with crusaders from all over Europe to protect his people). Even the latest king marry heretic queen, but Pope, under threat of another crusade, made him married to Kataraina.
And finally question why Mongols on their famous conquest of Eastern Europe did not conquest Bosnia? Maybe because Bosnia was weak. Mogols plunder all Dalmatian cities, but when they came into Bosnia they faced serious resistance and, because of hilly topographic, they could not fight with horses.
History said that the biggest kingdom was Dusans Rascia, but the mightiest was Bosnia. Croatia did not even exist as kingdom because it was separated in two parts Sclavonia and Dalmatia. Till Hungarian adn Venetian conquest real Croatian king was king of Sclavonia and Dalmatia was under rule by Neretljani - slavic pagan tribe who was wipe out by Venetians after 4 st of constant war. Real independent state in today Croatia was Republic of Dubrovnik (until 1809).
Also Croatia (Sclavonia) is not first Balcan slavic independent state. That was Zeta (today Montenegro).
Also in XIX st. Croatian think that they are of-springs of Illiyrians (Ljudevit Gaj theory) and in 1941 they said that Bosniaks (muslim bosnians) "flowers of Croatian people" - two idiotic, incorrect theories.
The real truth is that Bosnia was strong, independent Kingdom and their population used ethnic Bosnian name (no mater of religion). In XX st. after WWI nationalistic political parties divided people by religion and made them Croats (cristians), Serbs (ortodox) and Bosniaks (muslim). If these sick logic is truth I wonder is every christian in the world Croat, or is every orthodox Serb or every muslim Bosniak.

[IVIarkI2I]

well youve got the point there, thought if we compare bosnia with hungary or some other surrounding european kingdoms, it didnt play such important role in politics of whole Europe, I guess it was important country for balkans and we will implement bosnia as switchable faction (very simmilar thing was done in newest patch for Roma Surrecum)

[Kulin]

well youve got the point there, thought if we compare bosnia with hungary or some other surrounding european kingdoms, it didnt play such important role in politics of whole Europe, I guess it was important country for balkans and we will implement bosnia as switchable faction (very simmilar thing was done in newest patch for Roma Surrecum)

In reality Bosnia was not conquest but trade power with Dubrovnik and Italian cities as trade partners. The trade commodities was gold, silver, arms, iron, plumb, food and slaves (yes heretic, orthodox and other slaves imprisoned in battles who was sold in Dubrovnik). Conquest begin by rule of Stjepan II Kotromanic and continue in time of Tvrtko I. Bosnian kingdom was destroyed in 1463 by Ottomans. Lack of safe trade and rising power of Venezia made all trade go by sea not by land, and Ottomans stopped all caravan routes from Raska to Bosnia witch makes all trade stop and Bosnia kingdom then loose its importance. Like you said Bosnia was not conquest power, but it was never part of neighboring states, except Hungaria short before Stjepan II. For me the mightiest ruler was Kulin (time of peace and trade).
Bosnia in the game, thanks for its metal deposits, should rise as a trade power wit dominant religion heresy.
Also Bosnia was in constant alliance with Byzantium, Zeta, Dubrovnik, Venezia and sometimes Raska, but it is also been a constant enemy of Hungaria, Ottoman empire and Pope state.
Also Bosnia was in depended Banovina (Dux) before Tvrtko I and kingdom after.
I would really love to see Zeta, Dubrovnik and Raska in the game as in depended states. Croatia (Sclavonia) was part of Hungary after 1097. with some Dalmatian cities, but most of Dalmatia was under Venetian rule.
Just thank you for putting Bosnia in game - the rest is on players :-D.

[BosnianHistorian]

Hows it going?

[Gorčin]

Hi patria libera XIV community and moders.Is this mode dead??hope it aint.Thank you for putting bosnia in the faction rooster and dont be suprised if you see lots of croatian and serb people bashing on bosnia related topics they just want to destroy every notion of bosnia teling that bosniak don exist because you see they dont have a problem with us they have a problem with the term bosnia cause they want to erase even the mentionig of it,dont fall for that propaganda the tryed to wipe us out in this war they failed and now they are even more frustrated when they see anything conected to Bosnia.Just countinue with your work I am sure there are many bosnians who will help you with this mode if you ask them.
I Salute you all!