Couple of things

[Kallides]

First of all lads let me ay great mod really well done. I absolutly love the mohavaks on the Spartiates units they look amazing! And I love the Spartans general unit because I finally dont have to worry about my General being killed since he is in this case a true Spartan and has the strongest of guards with him not just some horse unit. I throw my general straight into the middle of the action. I love that you can make peace with the rebles, which makes it more realistic since I am sure in real life if you didnt touch them they would be quite happy and leave you alone too. Love the new map too!

Now a few things that concern me.
First is that a generals unit cant run since they are locked in the "spears down mod" and it cant be disengaged for the battlehorn is in its place.
Second is that the Spartiates have a default attack power of 8. Which is exactly the same as every other hoplite unit in the game and in some cases even less than. Arent Spartans supposed to be superior?


P.S. I didnt realise Rhodes was part of Spartan faction until 6th turn when I got the message that my town has grown.

[rogergargantua]

P.S. I didnt realise Rhodes was part of Spartan faction until 6th turn when I got the message that my town has grown.

Yeah, playing as Crete, I wanted to take in that island....I first believed it belonged to rebels, but then it turned out it was inhabitated by Spartans haha!

About the units, do the Spartan hoplite units have less soldiers in their hoplite unit then other greek factions?

I believe I play on medium sized units.
So my Cretan hoplites have 60 men. The Spartans have 40. But if I'm right, then the Spartan hoplites are much stronger then my Cretan ones. I really had trouble fighting them.

Another thing I noticed is that the Roman soldiers really have powerful stats. I saw 38 defence on one unit (cant remember which one exactly). But wont they outclass Greek units now?

[Kallides]

Yeh I felt really stupid man. Oh an extra city!?


Well I play with large unit scale and there are 121 Spartans in a unit if I am not mistaken. What I mean is a default Spartan attack stat is 8 you can obviously upgrade them as you upgrade you baracks further but compare to a hoplite unit sitting in the city of Corinth at the beggining of the game who have an attack of 12 they are not as mighty as Spartans should be. Ah nevermind they are still the best of the best when it comes to battle I was just wondering why. The game kicks ass all in all. I haven't looked at the Roman units closely I must admit only looked at the unit pictures and they look really cool. Rome will be my next faction.

[rogergargantua]

Yeh I felt really stupid man. Oh an extra city!?


Well I play with large unit scale and there are 121 Spartans in a unit if I am not mistaken. What I mean is a default Spartan attack stat is 8 you can obviously upgrade them as you upgrade you baracks further but compare to a hoplite unit sitting in the city of Corinth at the beggining of the game who have an attack of 12 they are not as mighty as Spartans should be. Ah nevermind they are still the best of the best when it comes to battle I was just wondering why. The game kicks ass all in all. I haven't looked at the Roman units closely I must admit only looked at the unit pictures and they look really cool. Rome will be my next faction.

I know what you mean, I also think Spartans should be more superior but perhaps fewer in a unit. Like they are more rare to train/recruit, etc.

Its funny tho. In my campaign as Crete I am constantly fighting the Persians. Then later in my campaign I came across a Spartan army. I must say it really went tough!! They just wouldnt break even after I flanked them on much sides. You can see screenshots of that battle here: LINK

Next to that, I also gave the Spartan King's bodyguard unit 2 healthpoints. According to quetz, its suicide....but i havent encountered them yet

[Kallides]

Its funny tho. In my campaign as Crete I am constantly fighting the Persians. Then later in my campaign I came across a Spartan army. I must say it really went tough!! They just wouldnt break even after I flanked them on much sides. You can see screenshots of that battle here: LINK

Cool shots man. I am sorry to say I have destroyed your beloved nation already and now moving on. Persians are not giving me any grief so I am ignoring them as well but Thesselians and Athenians were a bit of a pain before I crushed their sculls against the Spartan shields:sparta:

[The Holy Pilgrim]

I agree, Spartiates should have at least one more attack than the average hoplite. We might change that in the next release (which will most likely be a small patch)

[Amorphos]

Kallides

Thanks I am glad you enjoy it.

First is that a generals unit cant run since they are locked in the "spears down mod" and it cant be disengaged for the battlehorn is in its place.

There isn’t anything I can do about it, maybe some coders can but I think it is hardcoded. Personally I kinda like my Spartans marching slowly towards the enemy as if an unstoppable force, so I rarely put their spears up. If I do then I don’t min if the general gets into action a bit later than the rest, this gives me the chance to determine where they are best used.

Second is that the Spartiates have a default attack power of 8. Which is exactly the same as every other hoplite unit in the game and in some cases even less than. Arent Spartans supposed to be superior?

I don’t see why they would have better spears of a more powerful thrust, so I kept them all the same ~ it also helps with unit balancing. The Spartans have better mental stats moral ect, and that is where they would have been superior.

P.S. I didnt realise Rhodes was part of Spartan faction until 6th turn when I got the message that my town has grown

Haha, it’s a good place to take a few Persian settlements early on in the game, this allows you to keep the Persians at bay whilst fighting the greeks who are more of a threat at first.

rogergargantua

The kings guard has less men because it is a general unit, the spartiates have 60. Your cretan elites are strong but not as strong as spartiates or the kings guard, but they are cheaper. I would suggest using more cavalry to get around behind the Spartans.

Another thing I noticed is that the Roman soldiers really have powerful stats. I saw 38 defence on one unit (cant remember which one exactly). But wont they outclass Greek units now?

The late romans have such powerful stats because phalanx units destroy them otherwise due to the game dynamic. When I tested them the romans were approximately equal to heavy hoplites, but Spartans will still kick their asses.

I know what you mean, I also think Spartans should be more superior but perhaps fewer in a unit. Like they are more rare to train/recruit, etc.

You may have noticed that most units are maxed out in numbers, and I also changed the gap between men slightly ~ all of which is to give a more epic feel to the battles. I was going to limit the training of all Spartan units to Sparta as is historically correct, but basically that means you end up playing with AOR units and not Spartans! This game is not designed to be historical in that regard, its more about different fighting styles and cultures, essentially Spartans VS everyone else.

[rogergargantua]

rogergargantua
The kings guard has less men because it is a general unit, the spartiates have 60. Your cretan elites are strong but not as strong as spartiates or the kings guard, but they are cheaper. I would suggest using more cavalry to get around behind the Spartans.

Well, then I am looking forward to fight those Spartans one day....I havent encountered the Spartiates or the King's Guard yet. They will be awesome to fight! LOL! Especially King's Guard with two hitpoints! When time comes, I will make sure to post awesome screenies! Even if I lose the battle!

The late romans have such powerful stats because phalanx units destroy them otherwise due to the game dynamic. When I tested them the romans were approximately equal to heavy hoplites, but Spartans will still kick their asses.

Ah, sounds quite logic then! I believe the Roman and Greek armies are the most powerful in the game. Is that correct?

Cuz I keep smashing through Persians with quite some ease. I quite like that tho...that the Persians are really inferior to the Greeks but really have large numbers. They keep throwing armies at me

I havent fought Gaul, Germania or any other nation yet. So I cant tell about them.

You may have noticed that most units are maxed out in numbers, and I also changed the gap between men slightly ~ all of which is to give a more epic feel to the battles. I was going to limit the training of all Spartan units to Sparta as is historically correct, but basically that means you end up playing with AOR units and not Spartans! This game is not designed to be historical in that regard, its more about different fighting styles and cultures, essentially Spartans VS everyone else.

True and good point! It's really a fun game now. And I like the time period....there's so much different nations and they all have their own unique units. Thats what I like most about this time period.
Medieval time period = basically all knights. Tho I love M2:TW with the mod Stainless Steel, I just keep coming back at R:TW and its excellent mods.

One more question: When I chose Crete in selection menu, it also said it had chariots to build if im not mistaken. Are they still in? Because I am still building certain barrack buildings and other warfare buildings...but I dont get any new units.

[Amorphos]

Especially King's Guard with two hitpoints!

They only have one hit point, but 30 moral and 36 defence.

The romans and greeks are the most powerful, but all nations have 1 or 2 strong units, the germans are quite strong because after all they held out against the romans and eventually overtook them. The Persians as you know, should be weaker but have great numbers. They could have afforded armoured units but they would not be suited to the heat of the region. I should probably done more to show this using the stat heat entry in the EDU.

Yeah I like ss6, I reskinned the whole mod ~ just used a few tricks to make the metals look more metallic and I stripped away some of the colour as I thought it was too bright. I was going to upload it, but its way too big.

The cretans erroneously had chariots to start with as they were in the desc_strat [where starting armies are], they have been removed and the file is on the stw3.5 release thread. You wont be able to build them.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

I beleive the reason why the Persians had nowhere near the armor the Greeks had is because their fighting style was made for the desert. That means fast, lightly armored, yet efficient, cavalry and archers. Infantry wouldn't be the wisest choice due to the lack of armor. They would much rather keep their distance from the enemy. They weren't used to the Greek's use of heavy armor. Also, the Greeks were in constant warfare with each other and that pushed them to make better armor and weapons. Don't get me wrong, the Persians were in a lot of wars, but not to the extent or ferocity that the Greeks were in.

As for their numbers, that probably came from their huge empire.

[rogergargantua]

They only have one hit point, but 30 moral and 36 defence.

Yes, they originally have one hitpoint. But I altered it......but thats already known by now
Cant wait to fight them. I'm really far in my campaign but didnt really engaged Sparta yet since its kinda crippled thanks to Athens.

The Persians as you know, should be weaker but have great numbers.

Yeah, it's amazing how they are still being in balance with their empire in my current campaign. I took most of Turkish lands and their faction statistics still havent much lowered in any way. Their armies are definately crippled and less strong then it was......but the faction statistics show that they are still a nation which shuold not be underestimated.

The cretans erroneously had chariots to start with as they were in the desc_strat [where starting armies are], they have been removed and the file is on the stw3.5 release thread. You wont be able to build them.

LOL! too bad, I would love to ride out with some high speed chariots through units
But it's okay, I love playing with phalanx units even more.

I beleive the reason why the Persians had nowhere near the armor the Greeks had is because their fighting style was made for the desert. That means fast, lightly armored, yet efficient, cavalry and archers. Infantry wouldn't be the wisest choice due to the lack of armor. They would much rather keep their distance from the enemy. They weren't used to the Greek's use of heavy armor. Also, the Greeks were in constant warfare with each other and that pushed them to make better armor and weapons. Don't get me wrong, the Persians were in a lot of wars, but not to the extent or ferocity that the Greeks were in.

As for their numbers, that probably came from their huge empire.

Good and interesting point there yea. I assume your right if I think about it now. Makes kinda sense. And it's a shame that all Greek kingdoms were struggling for total domination.....they should have worked together, they would become huge. But I guess thats characteristics of men, always wanting more and always for themselves.

[Antiochos VII Sidetes]

And it's a shame that all Greek kingdoms were struggling for total domination.....they should have worked together, they would become huge.

Hmph. It's precisely because they were NOT kingdoms that they did not work together; and in the end, this was better for them. Better to rule 50 miles of territory and be free than 500 and be slaves of a despot.

And when it was time for the world to change, well, a certain Philip of Macedon did unite them, and the Greeks did indeed become huge.

[Agisilaos]

indeed Antiochos you are absolutely right. under the rule of Philip B and Alexander C the great, they were a kingdom that kicked ***

[rogergargantua]

And when it was time for the world to change, well, a certain Philip of Macedon did unite them, and the Greeks did indeed become huge.

OMG yea! How could I overlook Philip and his son Alexander! They were great indeed!

[Kallides]

Thanks I am glad you enjoy it.

Hey man thanks for clearing it up for me. The mod is trully great I am enjoying the Spartans so much and your right their moral is amasing and more then makes up for the missing thrust points. Great mod one of the best out there by far.:sparta:

Rep +

Oh and Merry Christmas everyone! May all your wishes come true.

I agree, Spartiates should have at least one more attack than the average hoplite. We might change that in the next release (which will most likely be a small patch)

Cool I'll be looking out for it!

[Amorphos]

glad you guys are enjhoying it.

indeed Antiochos you are absolutely right. under the rule of Philip B and Alexander C the great, they were a kingdom that kicked ***

I preferred the pre-alexandrian phalanx style, with their big shields and cool designs then those awesome corinthain style helms, that has to be the best look ever! I think those greeks could have conquered the world, if even only two factions joined together. Still I think they own the rest in sheer coolness.