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Thread: It's Their War, So Why Aren't They Fighting It?

  1. #1

    Default It's Their War, So Why Aren't They Fighting It?

    On another forum recently I was having a charming discussion with some Pro-Bush types, who did a great job parroting the latest round of spin and lies over Iraq. With monotonous predictability, several began assuring me that the Iraq Quagmire was a brave and noble enterprise aimed purely at bringing democracy and wonderfulness to the Iraqi people. When it was pointed out that it was much more likely to bring civil war, a divided nation and an Shi'ite Islamic semi-theocracy, I was informed that I was (somehow) 'dishonouring the troops'.

    At this point I noticed that the brave democracy (NOT oil!) warriors I was having this little chat with were all aged between 18 and 30 and (as far as I could tell) fit, healthy young specimens. So I asked when they were going to enlist. The response?

    Silence.

    So I asked again - if they were so gung-ho about this noble-war-with-no-ulterior-motives, why they hell weren't they over there fighting it? It took a third inquiry - and some well-placed jeers of derision from others - before one of the democracy warriors responded with some lame excuse about wearing glasses. No problem, I responded. The desperate recruiting officers would be happy to find some appropriate duties for him so long as he wasn't near blind. So when, I asked, was he going to enlist?

    Again, silence.

    By then the other brave warriors of freedom had also slunk away.

    Apparently this is a great war, so long as some other poor sap is fighting it.

    I notice quite a few brave Republicans, 'patriots' and even self-proclaimed 'nationalists' on this board. Some of them have served or are serving. Fair enough. But what about the others? Are they going to enlist or are they happy to fight the war from behind the safety of their keyboards while other people die?

    Here's a good site for those who, like me, wonder why these heroes are so cavalier with other peoples' lives:

    http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/

    Last edited by ThiudareiksGunthigg; August 31, 2005 at 09:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Cobra's Avatar Earl of Boof
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    People are able to have an opionion on something without having to do it.
    While there is a certain necessity to be able to put your money where your mouth is, you can listen to music without being a classical pianist, you can be for abortion without running an abortion clinic.
    Sure, the war is bollocks, but they have a right to their opinion without necessity of actually fighting.

  3. #3

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    I agree with you I think the war was a fool's endeavor. I don't believe in forcing people to accept democracy or any other western institutions I think if people want to live with a particular type of government or culture let them. This Iraq situation is a example of Americans interfering with foreign affairs that have nothing to do with the US yes I understand how people feel after 9/11 but there would never have been a 9/11 here if the government didn't interfere with Middle Eastern affairs and i'm refering to our stance with that region of the world over the last 40 years. Our interferene with the Israelis and Palestinians, and the Syrians and Lebanese, both invasions of Iraq the first really didn't involve us as it was a spat between Iraq and Kuwait and the Afgan campaign. All were doing is getting ourselves blown up for people who need to be left to their own devices and believe or not for the government its cheaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra
    People are able to have an opionion on something without having to do it.
    While there is a certain necessity to be able to put your money where your mouth is, you can listen to music without being a classical pianist, you can be for abortion without running an abortion clinic.
    Sure, the war is bollocks, but they have a right to their opinion without necessity of actually fighting.
    yeah dude but if your gonna be so gung ho about interfering with a group of people half a world away that don't want you in their country and your gonna drag the rest of us into the conflict then put your balls together and fight after all it was you pro-bush types that started or at least supported this war.
    Last edited by Seleukos; September 15, 2005 at 02:16 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiudareiksGunthigg
    On another forum recently I was having a charming discussion with some Pro-Bush types, who did a great job parroting the latest round of spin and lies over Iraq. With monotonous predictability, several began assuring me that the Iraq Quagmire was a brave and noble enterprise aimed purely at bringing democracy and wonderfulness to the Iraqi people. When it was pointed out that it was much more likely to bring civil war, a divided nation and an Shi'ite Islamic semi-theocracy, I was informed that I was (somehow) 'dishonouring the troops'.

    At this point I noticed that the brave democracy (NOT oil!) warriors I was having this little chat with were all aged between 18 and 30 and (as far as I could tell) fit, healthy young specimens. So I asked when they were going to enlist. The response?

    Silence.

    So I asked again - if they were so gung-ho about this noble-war-with-no-ulterior-motives, why they hell weren't they over there fighting it? It took a third inquiry - and some well-placed jeers of derision from others - before one of the democracy warriors responded with some lame excuse about wearing glasses. No problem, I responded. The desperate recruiting officers would be happy to find some appropriate duties for him so long as he wasn't near blind. So when, I asked, was he going to enlist?

    Again, silence.

    By then the other brave warriors of freedom had also slunk away.

    Apparently this is a great war, so long as some other poor sap is fighting it.

    I notice quite a few brave Republicans, 'patriots' and even self-proclaimed 'nationalists' on this board. Some of them have served or are serving. Fair enough. But what about the others? Are they going to enlist or are they happy to fight the war from behind the safety of their keyboards while other people die?

    Here's a good site for those who, like me, wonder why these heroes are so cavalier with other peoples' lives:

    http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/

    I want to enlist when Im eligible at 18, but thats in 3 years. Im not exactly a nationalist, more like a super Darwinist, that applies it to nations as well as species.


    Yeah, Im a sociopath.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra
    People are able to have an opionion on something without having to do it.
    So it doesn't strike you as slightly hypocritical that these chickenhawks are so convinced that the Iraq War is a great and noble thing that they are prepared to argue about it until they are blue in the face, but if you ask them to put their money where their mouths are, they slink away like whipped curs?

    The word 'cowards' springs readily to mind. As does 'hypocrites'.

    Last edited by ThiudareiksGunthigg; August 31, 2005 at 09:29 PM.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, I hvae no taste for them myself.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiudareiksGunthigg
    So it doesn't strike you as slightly hypocritical that these chickenhawks are so convinced that the Iraq War is a great and noble thing that they are prepared to argue about it until they are blue in the face, but if you ask them to put their money where their mouths are, they slink away like whipped curs?

    The word 'cowards' springs readily to mind. As does 'hypocrites'.

    like Simetrical said in another thread:

    "One need not try drugs to form an opinion of them. That's like saying that you have to rob a bank before you decide whether theft is wrong."

    You don't have to fight in the war in order to support it. They are supporting it by defending its merits here at home. No, I don't support the war, but it's certainly a slippery slope argument to say that war supporters should all be enlisting.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by allthesedamnnamesaretaken

    You don't have to fight in the war in order to support it. They are supporting it by defending its merits here at home. No, I don't support the war, but it's certainly a slippery slope argument to say that war supporters should all be enlisting.
    But when they are of enlistment age and they support it so vehemently, isnt it hypocritical not to sign up and fight? I believe it is. Like others have said, put your money where your mouth is and go fight.
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by allthesedamnnamesaretaken
    it's certainly a slippery slope argument to say that war supporters should all be enlisting.
    I can't see how it's a 'slippery slope argument' at all. And I'm not saying 'war supporters should all be enlisting', just the ones who are of eligable age and fitness. If they aren't prepared to enlist, how do they justify seeing other people pulling repeated, extended tours, many of them dying or being maimed in the process, while they sit on their behinds, waving their hands around about what a great and noble enterprise this is.

    It can't be so great and noble if they aren't prepared to stop puffing hot air about it and actually go and help.

    As I said, 'hypocrites'. Pure and simple.

    Speaking of which, some prominent TWC Bush fans of eligable age are notable by their total absence from this thread ...

    Last edited by ThiudareiksGunthigg; August 31, 2005 at 09:30 PM.

  10. #10

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    so, all abortion supporters need to get an abortion when they next get pregnant? just because they condone other people fighting the war doesn't mean they have to do it themselves.

  11. #11

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    I don't agree with them either, but being a coward doesn't make you wrong.

    I never did agree with the motives for the war, but if the US pulled out its troops now, it wouldn't be a very good thing for the ordinary people of Iraq. The only chance they now have for long term productive and stable governance involves a foreign force stopping the various power groups in the country settling their disagreements with armed force long enough for that to no longer be a viable option for them. Whether or not you like it, and whether or not you are willing to volunteer for it, (temporary) US occupation is the only option for Iraq that lessens the possibility of a tragic and bloody civil war.
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  12. #12

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    I'm a nationalist and a patriot....who opposes the war. I could care less what type of oppressive government the Iraqi people had under Saddam Hussein, or what kind of brutal civil war awaits them after a U.S. withdrawal. I'm deeply saddened that nearly 2,000 Americans gave their life for a foolish crusade and that we've spent billions of dollars merely to **** off the rest of the world.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by allthesedamnnamesaretaken
    so, all abortion supporters need to get an abortion when they next get pregnant?
    This wins my 'Totally Invalid and Poorly Thought Out Analogy of the Week Award'.

    just because they condone other people fighting the war doesn't mean they have to do it themselves.
    It's the condoning of other people doing the fighting (and dying) that makes them hypocrites. Can you explain to me why someone who believes passionately in this war, passionately enough to justify people killing and being killed, should NOT enlist if they are eligable?

    If the war is such a great idea, why should other people be putting their ars*s on the line for it?


  14. #14

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    The word 'cowards' springs readily to mind. As does 'hypocrites'.
    And how many years service have you given?

    To call others cowards while you set on the sidelines is just as hypocritical no matter your political veiws.
    If the war is such a great idea, why should other people be putting their ars*s on the line for it?
    because silly It's a volunteer army, If you don't want to fight and put your ass on the line, why sign up?
    This wins my 'Totally Invalid and Poorly Thought Out Analogy of the Week Award'.
    Why's that? Because it punches holes in your theories?

  15. #15
    Legio XX Valeria Victrix's Avatar Great Scott!
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    Quote Originally Posted by allthesedamnnamesaretaken
    so, all abortion supporters need to get an abortion when they next get pregnant? just because they condone other people fighting the war doesn't mean they have to do it themselves.
    That's not what he's saying. The Iraq War is such that you cannot compare it to abortion or any other hot topic on peoples minds today. There is a demographic of highly vocal college-age pro-war advocates, and people have a right to know why they support the war so adamantly but aren't prepared to put their lives on the line to back it up. If it's pure cowardice, then props to them if they admit it, but the vast majority don't. Most will say, "Oh, I would if I weren't in college," but in all honesty that is just selfishness. It's a good thing guys that age didn't say that in 1775, 1861, or 1941, otherwise we'd have a very different history to study.


    "For what is the life of a man, if it is not interwoven with the life of former generations by a sense of history?" - Cicero

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiudareiksGunthigg
    This wins my 'Totally Invalid and Poorly Thought Out Analogy of the Week Award'.
    How about these?

    Do you believe that people shouldn't be allowed to starve to death in third world countries? Are you working in one for an aid agency?

    Do you believe people in first world countries should benefit from western exploitation of Iraq's oil? Do you drive a car?
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  17. #17
    Legio XX Valeria Victrix's Avatar Great Scott!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corporal_Hicks
    And how many years service have you given?

    To call others cowards while you set on the sidelines is just as hypocritical no matter your political veiws.

    Why's that? Because it punches holes in your theories?
    Q1: This argument does not fly anywhere. You do not need to serve to have a credible thought about a military or political matter. It's not hypocritical in any way whatsoever to say "I don't think we should be at war in Iraq, and I don't think our troops should be dying there, therefore I will not fight." That is a perfectly sound thought process. What ISN'T a credible logic is this: "I believe that we are in Iraq for an honorable cause to restore order and give freedom to the Iraqis, and believe that those who have died have died for something honorable, furthermore I will continue to support it no matter what the cost in American lives, but I myself will not serve."

    Q2: This punches no holes in ANY theories, because it has absolutely no bearing on anything said in this thread.


    "For what is the life of a man, if it is not interwoven with the life of former generations by a sense of history?" - Cicero

  18. #18

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    the if you support something so why don't you do it is a silly argument that just won't fly. cowardice has nothing to do with supporting the actions of someone else. even in a conflict like ww2 a draft had to be implemented in order to get people into the military, and the vast majority of the population at that time was pro-war!

  19. #19

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    Q1: This argument does not fly anywhere. You do not need to serve to have a credible thought about a military or political matter. It's not hypocritical in any way whatsoever to say "I don't think we should be at war in Iraq, and I don't think our troops should be dying there, therefore I will not fight." That is a perfectly sound thought process. What ISN'T a credible logic is this: "I believe that we are in Iraq for an honorable cause to restore order and give freedom to the Iraqis, and believe that those who have died have died for something honorable, furthermore I will continue to support it no matter what the cost in American lives, but I myself will not serve."
    No, but to claim others cowards for not fighting while you yourself do not fight is hypocritical no matter your veiws. Not that I enjoy repeating myself but there you go.
    Q2: This punches no holes in ANY theories, because it has absolutely no bearing on anything said in this thread.
    How about those next examples? Are they good enough for you?

  20. #20
    Dr Zoidberg's Avatar A Medical Corporation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corporal_Hicks
    No, but to claim others cowards for not fighting while you yourself do not fight is hypocritical no matter your veiws. Not that I enjoy repeating myself but there you go.

    If you dont support the war then why should you fight? If you do support it and are eligable to fight, then you should.

    We are not talking about conflicts such as World War 2 where there was a definite need to go to war and win. We are talking about THIS war, which is highly controversial. It is not a clear cut case of "us good, Iraqis bad, we fight for freedom *pound chest".

    If you honestly believe the rhetoric of Bush that this war is for freedom, democracy and mums apple pie but refuse to fight it, then you are a coward.
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

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