[Passed] [citizen] Rebel6666 (Patron: Viking Prince) 23rd December 2009

[Viking Prince]

Client: Rebel6666

CLIENT: Rebel6666

I have applied in the past, but have not yet made the cut. I believe that I meet and exceed the standards for citizen. I have not given up on the quest, but I don't want to be disappointed again either. That said -- once again into the breech!

First of all I will present myself. I was born in Canada, in the Québec province; I’m bilingual in French and English. I’m on the high side of 30 years old, have two kids and a beloved wife. I’ve been playing TW games since Rome came out up till now.

I joined TWC in February 2007, I have joined this great forum for RTW and M2TW games at first but then became addicted. I have been an active member and always try to help out others.

Here are some concrete contributions that I have made on TWC:

I have written a couple of guides for this M2TW and I'm the creator of the biggest and most informatrive thread in the M2TW Discussion forum. My thread is called : The Great Informative Thread for M2TW With this thread I have offered other members a chance to contribute their own knowledge and perspective of the game by adding some of their own guides in this thread which is now been bookmaked by alot of members as a reference to help them enjoy and understand more the game.

I am also a reporter for the Silver Shield publications

I've written several articles:

SS. 2nd The Silver Shield - 2nd Edition

These are since my prior application:

SS. 4th The Silver Shield - 4th Edition

SS. 5th The Silver Shield - 5th Edition

I have also completed some work that will be included in the next two editions as well.

I was also Content Writer for the Helios, I have written 4 reports. I have recently resigned due to time and other interests. My most recent report (since my last application) link

I have also been a Local Moderator, keeping dust free that part of the forum for a year now, a multi-player online RPG game named Kingmaker. The game is now dead, it's a shame cause it had alot of potential. Perhaps the Creator and I will advertise a regeneration and make it live again. Hope always springs eternal.

I am including a bit from the intro to one of my prior applications from Guy:

Rebel joined TWC in early Feburary of 2007; He has never recieved a warning and was last approached just over a month ago. He is well known across TWC, especially with his contributions to RPG's and in general, helping members of TWC. One of the main reasons I chose him was because of his amazing contribution which helped me complete around 3 days worth of Wiki work on one of our projects. Some of the pages he contributed to can be found here;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Scotland (M2TW Faction)
Sicily (M2TW Faction
England (M2TW Faction)
Turks (M2TW Faction)
HRE (M2TW Faction)
Papal States (M2TW Faction)

And many more!

He has been a Local Moderator now for many months and does very well at his job. Maybe he is a potential moderator, but that would be for future terms. I believe he has the quality to become a Citizen and has earned this through his contributions over the years.

I know that this is not really a contribution in the sense that you might be looking for, but I also try to welcome and encourage new members to the site. I have helped a lot of members with questions regarding anything that was within the game, game play, tactics and more…. This is what I have been doing for more than two years now. Here in The M2TW Discussions forum is where I have spent and still spending a lot of time helping other members.

I have also helped members start their AAR’s. Here are two examples:
1- Poland from ManOnFire
2- Russia from Sub-Zero

I’m also an active member of the PS3 and Silver Aux. social groups. I have also helped members in the Personnel help part of this forum and I’m always opened to help anyone that needs help and if I can’t help them I will find someone that can.

I have created a My Personal Help Thread which ain't that much, but it is an indication of my positive attitude to help out. I have received PM's from members that requested my help. I would say their names but I respect " Le secret Professionnel" like we say in French.

Before I close, I would like to also address some demerits that I know will be discussed. I was involved with a writing competition and removed because of some vote solicitation activites. My conduct was wrong, not simply as a potential citizen, but as a member of TWC.

There was also an issue involving plagarism with an article submission to the Scriptorium. I should have better documented my sources. Part of the problem was from using a french version of the book. I had translated quite a bit into English. I did not even think that an English version was available. I know that should be obvious, but it was not to me at the time. It appeared to some that I had simply presented the material as my own and mixed in with my own writing (which is also true -- see my comment about better documention). It was never my intention to pass off as my own work the hard work of others.

I regret these issues and I believe I deserve a second look at citizenship.

Finally, I would like to say thanks to all of you for taking the time, as we all know time is important to read and look the work I’ve done.

Sincerely,

Rebel6666

Patron: Viking Prince

Patron: Viking Prince

I am patronizing Rebel6666 because I believe redemption and reform are possible and should be encouraged. I have been a friend of his through good times and dark times regarding his time on TWC.

I know that there may be some that will never vote yes. I am hopeful that there are others with a change of heart with the passage of time.

I believe his application is both complete and with nothing more that I can add other than some legal details.

His prior applications:
[FAILED 08/21/09] [Citizen] Rebel6666 (Patron: Celsius)
[FAILED 04/07/09] [Citizen] Rebel6666 (Patron: Guy)
[FAILED 02/21/09] [Civitate] Rebel6666 (Patron: Heinz Guderian)

The applicant has over 4,000 posts and no notes, warnings, nor expired warnings on his record. There are only two reversed warnings. This is more moderation information than is needed to present to CdeC, but I want to emphasize that Rebel6666 does indeed try to follow the rules.

Coupled with a good record of contribution, I believe he will make a good citizen.

[Belisarius]

His prior applications:
[FAILED 08/21/09] [Citizen] Rebel6666 (Patron: Celsius)
[FAILED 04/07/09] [Citizen] Rebel6666 (Patron: Guy)
[FAILED 02/21/09] [Civitate] Rebel6666 (Patron: Heinz Guderian)

Owch


I will do my research.

[Nikos]

I believe that I meet and exceed the standards for citizen.

I will do my research as well, but he seems pretty high on himself in his application. I don't like that in a candidate. And i also do not like the Plagiarism. Because the book was in French and he didn't think he would be caught isn't a good defense to me. That said, I'm not ready to condemn him yet, I will look into him more.

[Viking Prince]

I will do my research as well, but he seems pretty high on himself in his application. I don't like that in a candidate. And i also do not like the Plagiarism. Because the book was in French and he didn't think he would be caught isn't a good defense to me. That said, I'm not ready to condemn him yet, I will look into him more.

High on himself? I think all applicants for citizen should be proud of their contributions. I know there is a fine line between bragging and simply taking credit for what one has done. We all cross that line at one time or another. Perhaps selling yourself to the CdeC councilors is one of those times when a bit of polish is important.

I did a search for the post. The article in question was posted Strategies of Poker Texas Hold'em (TD) back in August 13, 2009. If this had been a warning that would have been 4 months ago and thus expired by now.

Ponti and I differed at the time on this. I accepted his statement that it was a mistake and not intentional. In any case, it was an error in judgement on his part just as posting insults against a member can be an error in judgement. CdeC never even officially knows about applicant with warnings old enough not to apply, but these two incidents with Rebel never seem to fade. I think it is a bit unfair. That is why I offered to patronize him this time.

[Nikos]

High on himself? I think all applicants for citizen should be proud of their contributions.

As do I, but saying that he exceeds the standards for Citizenship seems a bit presumptuous to me, and by nature I do not like things like that. And Rebel cheated in the Scriptorium Writing competition, that is what I was talking about VP.

[Viking Prince]

As do I, but saying that he exceeds the standards for Citizenship seems a bit presumptuous to me, and by nature I do not like things like that. And Rebel cheated in the Scriptorium Writing competition, that is what I was talking about VP.

I will again suggest using the example of warning points here as well. Are you suggesting that there is no amount of time or contribution that will ever erase these two incidents. Are you suggesting that unlike a member reforming and becoming a citizen after a rough time with moderation actions -- these incidents are somehow differant?

[Legio]

This is really, really a toughie. I personally like the user and am with VP on the fact that he has contributed. However, he seems to have a low self confidence in himself (despite the high sounding application) and as such resorts to cheating or plagiarism in some cases.


That being said, I am pretty much on the fence over this one.

However, seeing as VP is the patron and I respect the judgment of the patron very much, it is a 53% towards the yes on my fence.

[Nikos]

I will again suggest using the example of warning points here as well. Are you suggesting that there is no amount of time or contribution that will ever erase these two incidents. Are you suggesting that unlike a member reforming and becoming a citizen after a rough time with moderation actions -- these incidents are somehow differant?

No, I'm not suggesting that. But these incidents, among others are not helping me vote yes.
Nor is his persistent quest to become a Citizen and his public thread on why he thinks he would be a good Citizen which can be found here.
I'm seeing many attitude problems that I don't think are Citizenship material.

[Legio]

What about a certain very cocky modder that we have lurking around in M2? He has attitude problems and he is somehow an opifex.
And I mean serious attitude problems.

[Nikos]

What about a certain very cocky modder that we have lurking around in M2? He has attitude problems and he is somehow an opifex.
And I mean serious attitude problems.

What about him? I said I haven't made up my mind about the current applicant yet, but I'm leaning toward no right now.

[Legio]

He has attitude and he has badge
he also has cheeseburger

[Viking Prince]

Maybe we simply look at citizenship material differantly. I like applicants that are not likely to be seen by moderation in the future that have an interest in doing more than lurking in the forums. I am quite happy with the requirements:

To qualify for Citizen, a member must have at least fifty posts, been a registered member for two months, and have no warnings. If a member has been warned, the member must have gone six consecutive months without a further warning.

We have a tradition of tacking on some contributions (undefined, each councilor has his/her own standards).

This is not to say that I do not have standards and that I do not vote no on occasion. I have opposed some who have passed and supported some who have failed. I have even opposed Rebel6666 on some of the applications. I truly struggle the most with the modding applicants -- in part because of the traditional higher bar that seems to have been set for them.

[y2day]

I knew I would see this app again and everytime it is a tough one. Rebel tries and you don't always know if it is for the right reason........Nothing wrong with working to be rewarded but at some point I think contributing without the thought of self gain should take hold. That isn't a requirement of citizenship and shouldn't be, but it would be nice to see in some cases. I believe by itself the contributions are sufficiant for the award, and I think it is time for Rebel to receive it. I'm leaning toward a yes this time.

[Tzar]

I will be voting yes as well. Rebel is good guy who is trying hard to receive a citizenship, so someone who care about that badge. I offered to patronize him 2 months ago but at that time we decided to wait until he finishes few more articles for SS. I’m glad that VP came forward as a patron (I was too busy and somehow forgot about that)
We all know that his contributions are above the level needed for citizenship and he was punished enough for his mistake with three failed application.

[Justinian]

Rebel has had a terrible attitude in the past when it comes to Citizenship -- publicly complaining when he failed, acting sullen and angry, -- and in other terms of the site: he cheated in a Helios writing competition, for example. As well-written as the app is, I cannot in good conscience vote for someone with such attitude problems, who I feel will become very arrogant when he has a Citizen badge; I do not need to see more contribution from him, I need to see a long and extended positive attitude change or I feel he will be a troublesome Citizen.

I have no personal issue with Rebel, and I can acknowledge he's a helpful guy and generally well-intentioned, and he's certainly worked hard to gain Citizenship, so this vote is not so cut-and-dry for me. But for now I have no choice but to vote no on this one.

[Captain Blackadder]

Rebel has had a terrible attitude when it comes to Citizenship -- publicly complaining when he failed, acting sullen and angry, harassing CdeC members -- and in other terms of the site: he cheated in a Helios writing competition, for example. As well-written as the app is, I cannot in good conscience vote for someone with such attitude problems, who I feel will become very arrogant when he has a Citizen badge and rub it in people's faces; I do not see to more contribution from him, I need to see a long and extended positive attitude change or I feel he will be a bad and troublesome Citizen. Furthermore, I feel that he isn't sorry he cheated in the Scriptorium, he's sorry he got caught.

I will look into it more, and it is possible that my memory is betraying me and I'm confusing him with Darth Ravenous.

Indeed he has in the past but we cannot hold it againest him for ever and ever I too have voted no in the past for that reason. But if we are to continue in this way every time why not send him a message to give up for we are never going to let him enter. I feel that he has done enough to overlook those indesgreations of the past. How long ago where they anyway?

[Augustus Lucifer]

One problem I have with this application is he seems to be hinging on things which were included in past applications and determined to not be of much value to an application. I know he can't see them to reference, but I just get the feeling it's an all out barrage of every little tit or tat, rather than just keying in on some of the more important things. Applications can be set aside and are only meant as a reference, but the reason I say this is because when an applicant feels certain things which are fairly small should be included, it gives an odd perspective on the claim for legitimacy.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've seen most of these contributions two or three times now, having voted on all of his past applications. And in those applications I explained why things like being a local moderator for Kingmaker or helping a couple AARs which didn't really go anywhere aren't really worth mentioning. I'll overlook this, but it brings me to the crux of the matter which is...

What have you done for me lately? By me, I of course mean TWC.

This is what it really comes down to. As far as I can tell he cites articles in the Silver Shield and Helios as recent contributions. The Silver Shield articles are average, I can't really say they stick out to me because a good chunk is info taken from the mods being interviewed and maybe formatted a little, and another good chunk is the answers from the interviewee. I have high standards for publication articles, because I get the inclination that people see it as a fast track for Citizenship, even if the quality is lacking. The Helios article he linked to is better.

The informative guide is still a solid contribution, though as I've said previously it would need to be of frostbeastegg quality to suffice by itself, and his parts don't match that. I'd advise taking a page from his patron in fixing up the guide, because numerous parts read more like titled musings than a legible and comprehensive guide.

Ultimately I think this comes down to the intangibles. Does his helpfulness in the M2 GD and the Personal Help section, and any attitude shifts since the issues that have come up in the past, offset the incidents of a few months ago? Personally I'm not sure, but I'll look back through his posts more recently and see if I notice a paradigm shift. Time does heal all wounds, and four months is long enough that the cheating incident shouldn't be the be-all-end-all to this application. Still, there is substantial evidence that the latest incident was part of a roughly year long trend of undermining his helpfulness with deceit or pompousness. And for this reason it's important that something actually can be perceived as changing in his demeanor for the better.

Having said all of that, I can understand why VP extended the olive branch. Rebel is someone who is on the cusp either way you toss it, but consistently has screwed himself in the past.

[Viking Prince]

The main new contributions are two SS articles published and one Helios article published (he has since resigned from Helios)

[Viking Prince]

Three votes and two days to go.

[y2day]

Thought I already voted on this.....