Curia Hostilia: Consulate of Barba/Poplicola

[dragoon47]

If the Greek citites insist on trying to take Olympias during the Olympiad next year I would assume that we would all be morally obligated to intervene. It may be a Greek tradition, but it is an honorable and civilized tradition that must stay in practice.

[chaplain118]

The doors to the Curia opened. A new figure stepped into the halls. As he entered, gasps went up in the senators. Some even stood from their seats and tried to distance themselves from the new man that had just entered. Each step he took drew mutters of fear and confusion. Atreus narrowed his eyes when he saw the man. Walking up to his brother, he whispered.

I thought I told you to not come?

That will not change my mind, brother. I have decided. Now move aside.

Fuming, Atreus stood aside and let his brother walk to the center of the floor. Focusing his gaze on Herrenius, the new man began to speak, his falcon grey eyes piercing Barba's.

Noble Senators of the House, I come before you not as a man petitioning for more wars nor a man attempting to dissuade you of the course that you plan on taking. I come before you as but a humble Roman, a Roman who only has the interest of his City at heart. We have been through wars, both within and without these walls. We have seen death and some of us in this chamber has already rushed to its dark embrace. But just because we have seen death, we have experienced death, does not mean that we must fear it. Rome has been damaged by the prior events that have transpired within her walls, her people have grown disillusioned. What the people crave for in the streets is a promise, a promise of safety and of protection. They have screamed for it when snakes and adders slithered through the pipes. They begged for it when Pyrrhus and his Calabrian foes pressed towards our hallowed gates. They demanded it when Caesar was placed on trial for his violence against the people. Now, when we stand on the thin blade that divides peace and war, the people's voice once again call for safety.

But how, Senators, can we bring safety to them? Can we tell them that they are safe when they know full well that our legions are depleted and tired? Can we tell them that they are safe when foreign men arrive at our shores and enter the Curia unmolested? Can we tell them that they are safe when the ghosts of the past haunt them? Senators, I cannot in good conscience advocate a war that will only place our people in jeopardy, but I will demand a war that shall expand our people's domain so that they can sleep in peace at night. Those of you in this hall, my brother included, who are calling for an invasion of Greece, to avenge past wrongdoings, please stop. Such calls will earn you no support for the people are tired of war and tired of bloodshed.

Conversely, those of you on the other side of the floor, blocking motions for war are in no ways right either. We are the sons of Mars. War runs in our vein. It is our destiny to be a martial nation, to hold the iron scepter of power through arms. Our people know the fragile state of our military. They know that the northern borders are not secure and they know of the pressing Macedonians from the east. Senators, these are pressing concerns that are at the forefront of our problems. Please, let us concentrate on those issues before coming up with ridiculous reasons to strike at Greece. Build up our armies once again so that the people can sleep better in this City. Build up our armies so that we can negotiate with other nations from a position of power rather than being dictated to.

Senators, consider my words carefully, for Rome stands on the edge of a blade.

Pallas finished his speech and waited for the reactions in the Senate floor. He looked just as his twin did and no discernible features could seperate the two. Each time his falcon grey eyes rested upon a Senator, that man would flinch and shuffle away or avert his gaze. Each time he shook at his toga, an expectant hiss would go up as somebody expected snakes to fall from the folds. Atreus looked at his brother in disdain. Shaking his head, he turned and left from the Curia.

[dragoon47]

Lucius could not believe it. This man definetly was not the Pallas he killed, any sort of mockery by the gods was out of the question, this had to be some kind of twin brother, or something far worse. Just then h shot a glze at Lucius. Deep inside, that gaze would have sent a chill down his spine, but not now. He had gotten far too used to gazes like that, ad Lucius shot a gaze identical to it back at him.

If you are finished and you indeed are a senator you may take your seat senator..?

[chaplain118]

Rutulus, Pallas Rutulus. And I must say, Scribonius, you look more weary than you did.

[dragoon47]

Lucius looked much less confused than he actually was. Also, his comment to Scribonius was probably meant to scare him although it also unnerved him. Lucius knew he was trying to get into everyone's heads early on. He was not the Pallas he knew, there was only one more possible explanation.

I'm guessing you are his twin? You don't need to answer that, you may take your seat if you wish.

Lucius turned to the rest of the senators.

In my quaestor's report I mentioned the need for more troops, troops which Pallas is also speaking about so you probably know my position on this matter.

I propose two consular armies. Each one numbering 18720 men at full strength, with command split between 2 legates with a consul as supreme commander during wartime.

Two smaller regional legions can be recruited for garisson duties when needed comprising of half the strength commanded by the praetor if needed.

[Raglan]

Senator Valerius, may i remind you that your not the Quaestor. I am.

Senator Rutulus, may i ask a question based on your flawed philosophy. You claim that we need to expand in order to protect Rome, so that our borders are not threatened. But am i the only one that remmembers that the reason that Italy was taken was for this goal, and a worthy goal it is indeed. but to ensure that our borders were safe we expanded into italy, now to keep our borders safe, you say we must expand into Greece?

And what then, inorder to keep our greek borders safe, would you have us expand into Asia-Minor?

The problem with this, is the more we expand in order to protect, the larger borders we then have to protect. Instead, it seems to me, that if safeguarding Italy is the goal, rather than as it once was, safeguarding Roma. Then investing in Legions is foolish, since they can only fight once the foe is here. But investing in the navy, to protect out coasts. That would make more logic, unless it is simply greed and a desire to emulate the Persians and build an empire is what motivates you.

And may i remind the Curia what happended to the Persians when they mistook the Greek desire to be left alone!

Now Senators, i have a proposal, one that as Quaestor i can actually make unlike Valerius. But i propose a vote, to determine how the Curia stands, in regards to enlarging the legions, or returing some of the profit that the war created in those that have earned it, the citizens of Rome.

Something that i believe my report did.

so my proposal,

1 - that we should invest the majority of this terms money on reinforcing and enlaging the Legions

2 - that we should invest in the people of Rome, and that we should vote on the Quaestors initial report.

Before this gets commented on, i will add my views. I believe in the second option, if we have not been fighting for the betterment of the people of Rome, then why have we been fighting? enforcing more romans to have to leave their lives, and serve in the legions, when the only talk of war is us being greedy is to my mind immoral, but this is a Republic, and we all here have an equal say, so let us vote on it.

[dragoon47]

It's not war as much as security Aebutius. Last I checked we are sorrounded by enemies with far stonger armies than our own. We cannot hope to beat any of them by themselves without at least one of the consular legions I proposed in Greece and the navy you proposed.

Perhaps we can meld our two ideas together? We can reform the army in Greece to one Consular army under the terms I specified to protect our land holdings there against the Macedonians...and we can build up our navy to protect mainland Italy from the Carthaginian and the Athenian navies. I'm sure money will be left for the people of Rome if it is planned correctly, we already have most of the units needed there.

I will put your initial quaestor's report to vote and support it after I hear your thoughts on this. I'd rather take the votes all at once, sooner than later.

[Raglan]

Let us just get a feeling for what the Senate as a whole thinks. There has been so much back ad forth debating that i'm begining to loose track, and i'm sure that i'm not the only one

[dragoon47]

Fine, put them to vote.

[Junius]

To whom go the spoils of war? That seems to be the objection of the opponents of a Greek venture. You assume that it will be the ruling class who profit, but who says that? Unless you yourselves have profited from war, I don't see a reason why it should only be the ruling classes who would benefit. Right now we are presented with a choice, between either securing our military or investing in our infastructure. If only it could be both.

Senators, it could be. Access to the rich trading lanes of the Aegean would increase our wealth, Rome's wealth, countless times over. It would allow our people to enjoy all that can be offered to them. The soldiers would fight abroad to better their lives at home. The spoils of war would be used for their benefit, and the benefit for the whole Roman people.

Who here could deny the strength of Roman arms? The Greeks, fighting in their archaic style, divided as they are, are without a hope or chance of success if we take the bull by the horns. Who would then deny those soldiers, assured of victory, the spoils of war, a better life, for them and their families?

Do not scoff at war when there is a chance for profit, it is not inherently immoral, only if that profit is used for immoral acts. But when it has the chance to better Rome, to better the lives of her people, who are we to deny them that chance?

[Winter]

Ovidius stands

You mean for Rome to meddle in the affairs of a people with which we have no business; this is a dangerous and morally unjustifiable precedent to set. You impose a false argument upon us; You know as well as I that the men in the legions serve as citizen soldiers. They have no more attachment to the victory of the endeavor than you or I - the difference is that their lives will be on the line, not ours. Pulling these men away from their families and livelihood over some dangerous imperialistic and avaristic affair is criminal, and I will see that it does not go forward.

[Junius]

You cling to your ill-defined morals Ovidius. Why is it wrong? And do not think that you are so superior, or that we are so inferior, that you can dismiss that question without answering it. If it is obvious why it is wrong, tell us. It is an act done to further and better the lives of Romans.

You cling to your justification that it will cost Roman lives. But the very act of standing still, embracing the status quo, costs Roman lives. Granted, they aren't as countable or as graphic as those lost on the battlefield, but the lives lost to hunger, lost to pestilence, lost to disease count just as much. These lives could be saved with the money that victory in such a war would bring. Though you may scoff and continue on about your precedents and justifications, but tell that to the starving beggar in the street.

Yes, our army is made of citizen soldiers. But they did not sign on, train, fight and bleed to sit in barracks and see their loved ones at home suffer and die. They are soldiers because being a soldier can make a difference, it can help all of Rome, it can help all Romans. They are made of sterner than you give them credit for. They will jump at the chance to better the lives of their families, and if that means that some of them may have to sacrifice, it is a sacrifice that they are more than willing to make.

You talk to us as if we have not spent time in the army. We all were military tribunes in our day, we all were ready to fight and die for Rome, and to better her. We are a nation of soldiers, Ovidius, and soldiers fight to make this world a better place.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Claudius Drusus lazily raises his arm

It isn't that I disagree with the appropriations of funds for the army, but it is my worry that the money isn't going to be handled properly. We need the consuls to draw up a plan of recruitment with cost estimations so we can gauge our strength for the upcoming campaign. We can debate until the world comes to an end, but ubless we actually do something about it nothing will be done.

[Winter]

It is clear you do not understand what a citizen soldier is, Antonius.

These men are brought from their fields to the Campus Martius and sorted into legions in times of crisis. They are in no way professional soldiers; to send them half the world away to bloodily gain better access to a simple trade route whilst meanwhile their crops die on the vine is criminal. There is no betterment for their families; they instead see their livelihood broken. To send soldiers out of Italy for anything other than massive need is unthinkable.

[Junius]

OoC: Can we get this sorted. We have legions which stay in the field for years on end, even in times of peace. I thought this was done in previous YATS, but that might have been forgotten. Legions are made up of soldiers who serve a five-year tour, as it were, or that was the prior 'agreement'. In my recollection, it was to stop arguments such as Ovidius's, and people calling for the Legionaires to be allowed back home.

[Winter]

ooc: The technical limits may be in place, but this argument imo is valid until marius.

[dragoon47]

I don't believe either of you truly understand what it means to be a citizen soldier. Sure we hated being taken off our farms and away from our homes but what gets us through it is the thought that what we were doing was for a purpose higher than us, even if we did not understand it.

What is Carthage doing at the moment? They are conquering Spain. What is Macedon doing? They are moving towards the lands of the Daci by now. Pergamum is conquering Asia Minor. What is Rome doing gentlemen?

There are a few basic needs that we need for the defense of our lands. One is troops in mainland Italy on rotation so no soldier stays there for too long before getting to go back home. Another is a navy to protect our trade routes and our communication to Greece and the last is more farms and roads.

Let's look at this from a different perspective. What if Macedon attacks us? How would our armies in Greece fare against them? Outnumbered 3 to 1, the Macedonians having the element of surprise. Would we be able to raise a consular army in time to stop them from taking both of our main cities before the year ends?

We need to act, and stop bickering about what to do. I believe this year's money should be used to benefit the people of Rome while we disband any useless units such as the depleted Greek allies and start reforming the army in Greece and give the soldiers currently there a chance to go home and see their families and send others in their place.

[Raglan]

Yes Junius is correct, however this is a valid arguement. And is one that the tribune of the people can be easily seen to make so i'm allowing it. Especially since the concept is enlarging and invading rather than fighting a defensive war.

[chaplain118]

From what I managed to hear among those us of gathered here today, I can only supply but my humble opinion. An expansion of our armies is a necessity that can ill be overlooked. When we have only held our fair City and the surrounding countryside, we can afford to disband and raise each army as we see fit. But the situation has changed and we must adopt to reflect that in our military doctrine. Just as a snake must shed his old skin each spring to grow into a stronger creature, so must we shed previous practices to better combat the coming tidings, whatever they may be.

Our recent expansion into Greece has drawn the attention of Macedon and the free cities around us, that is something that we can ill overlook. Our expansion into southern Italy is something that we cannot forget. These lands have nearly doubled our Republic's nominal territory and our armed forces must be strong enough to defend them. These new cities are still only considered Socii of Rome and thus they are still at risk of floating away from our spheres of influence.

Senators, raising additional armies to protect our allies will ensure that they remain loyal to Rome and loyal when we require their loyalty. Our previous system of only four legions during times of war is inadequate for our current purposes. Call me what you will, but I believe that a new system should, nay, must be enacted. Our current system of legions is operating on a quickly slapped together system and I aim to change that. Thus I propose the following:

Lex Rutula de Re Militari
I. The number of standing legions during peace time shall be raised to eight, creating four consular armies
II. Each consul shall be given two armies to operate with once they hold imperium
III. The composition of each legion shall comprise of 1 unit of Hastati, 1 unit of Principes, 1 unit of Triarii, 1 unit of Equites, 1 unit of Velites.
IV. Two legions shall be drawn directly from Rome's own population, but the remaining legions shall be levied from the Italian allies
V. Allied legions shall remain in their recruited regions unless called upon by Rome to serve.
VI. Allied legions may augment their forces with appropriate mercenaries.

What say you senators?

[dragoon47]

A vote on that proposal if supported will be pending the outcome of the previous votes in session Pallas. Furthermore it is my opinion that there is too much debate in this house as to what to do next. Us standing here, bickering, trying to gain personal victories and petty revenges will ensure that nothing will get done, and Rome will suffer for it.

If you'll excuse me I must prepare for the sacrifices I've been obligated to pay for.