Communists and Nazis

[JP226]

First off let me say, i'm sure as hell no nazi. I think they are dispicable. Thanks to the fascist and nazi ideology, millions have suffered and died. What about communisist. Why are they not viewed in the same light as nazis? Are they not responsible for the deaths of millions upon millions for there perfect utopian society? Are they not dispicable as well?

[Kscott]

In the west Communism is viewed rather badly. America has fought wars for the sole purpose of stopping it.

[JP226]

but how many people on this forum call themselves communists, and so many say nothing. What would those same people say if a self proclaimed nazi came on this board?

[Tigran of Sasoun]

NO! Stalin and other killed millions not communists. Communism isnt about being better than someone and wanting to kill them, or wanting to oppress someone. Communism is about making the world better. Everyone is equall and everyone works for the benefit of the whole. Communism had nothing to do with facistism or Nazism.

[Kscott]

Well people may not be self proclaimed Nazis, but i know that people at totalwar.org call themselves fascist... Communism is very pure if kept true.. Nazis is very evil no matter how you look at it.

[JP226]

NO! Stalin and other killed millions not communists.

well, wasn't it just hitler and others that killed millions, not nazis or fascist? And can you not argue that the fascist wanted to make the world better place as well? Make it more efficient under one simple rule

[removeduser_487563287433]

Communism does not practise genocide, whereas the Nazis clearly did. There's your difference.

[Kscott]

You could argue that, but then again the you could argue that the Nazis wanted a perfect white race. They may have "wanted" to better the "world", but the world to them was Aryan(sp) supremecy.

Communism on the other had simply tries to districubte wealth equally to all citizens. The problem is communism is very hard to apply to the real world and you end up with a dictatorship, very similiar to fascism in all but principle..

And thirdly, on somewhat of a tangent...
I believe switching out of a Serf nation and modernizing was a leading cause of death, and shouldnt really be applied to communism.

[JP226]

what is genocide? is it a certain number of people you have to kill? Or by killing off a certain sect make it worse than killing off everybody? I somehow miss the difference. They may have different methods of getting there, but they both acheive the same ends, power.

I believe switching out of a Serf nation and modernizing was a leading cause of death, and shouldnt really be applied to communism

by "moderninzing" the communists killed everyone who wouldn't conform to their one size fits all ideology. How can you not balme them for that?

[Rex331]

First off I am not a Nazi, and I do not support Nazi beliefs. That said, I was thinking about this no more that a half hour ago. On this forum Communists are accepted and tolerated, and I recall a few Nazis and people who used Nazi images being banned from the forum and web site. That might not necessarily be such a bad thing, as long as the site does not try and say they are unbiased (Which they don't and shouldn't have to be). But you need to remember that Nazism and Fascism are not the same thing, and Fascism is not accepted or tolerated much either. I have never seen anyone on this board call themselves fascist, and if someone did, I am sure they would be insulted, flamed, hounded, and reported. The extreme left is accepted and the extreme right is not. The simple reason why is because there are far, far, far more left on this forum than right. Counting myself I have seen maybe only five or six people that could be described as moderate to far right, if that.

[Atheist Peace]

JP

No, communism does not promote murder or genocide, by either definition. Communism, as anything, can be corrupted by human greed and desire, that is what happened and led to death and tragedy, communism as an ideology does not include genocide, nazism is all about racial/ethnic/national superiority and killing the "inferior" people. There is a HUGE difference

[removeduser_487563287433]

what is genocide? is it a certain number of people you have to kill? Or by killing off a certain sect make it worse than killing off everybody? I somehow miss the difference. They may have different methods of getting there, but they both acheive the same ends, power.

Genocide is attempting to destroy an entire race.

You're bollocking around and you know it. By the rise of communism in Russia, the Russian Empire already contained countless ethnicities, from Russians to Mongolians, to the Japanese. As said above, Communism originally was meant to be equality for all citizens, not for a single race.

You're wrong.

Again.

[Kscott]

Well, I believe I have anwsered the main point, but to answer your last question...

Purposly trying to kill of people of a certain "race", is much worse than inderectly killing people due to starving and stuff. It is maybe arguble that Stalin practiced Genocide, but he cant stand alone to represent communist.

[Rex331]

No, communism does not promote murder or genocide, by either definition. Communism, as anything, can be corrupted by human greed and desire, that is what happened and led to death and tragedy, communism as an ideology does not include genocide, nazism is all about racial/ethnic/national superiority and killing the "inferior" people. There is a HUGE difference

Oh? Is there? Communism kills off anyone who is above the norm. Anyone who is not identical economically and socially. Is that not genocide? Would you rather be dead or alive and trapped in a meaningless existence?

[Kscott]

Rex, well not trying to off topic, but the org is more right, and people do get away with calling themselves Facsist.

On topic,
"by "moderninzing" the communists killed everyone who wouldn't conform to their one size fits all ideology. How can you not balme them for that?"

First of all i dont see why modernizing is quoted when Communist DID modernize Russia and turn it into a superpower. I do blame them, but I believ anybody trying to convert serf russia would have had to have some casualties..

[Kscott]

Oh? Is there? Communism kills off anyone who is above the norm. Anyone who is not identical economically and socially. Is that not genocide? Would you rather be dead or alive and trapped in a meaningless existence?

Partly why communism doesnt work in the reall world....

[Atheist Peace]

Rex,
Communism does not instruct the killing of those people, it happens when changes cannot be made easily and human emotion and desire takes over again. You can't base an opinion about true communism on human actions, they are often misrepresentative. Nazism can be judged that way because it only existed from Hitler's words and actions.

[shadepanther]

Communisim is good in principle. But really with Humans in control it just isn't really going to work. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely as both ideologies are a example of.

I remember some people at the org saying they are fascists not nazis. There is a difference no matter how slight. Either way, far left and far right are just as bad as each other and both should be outlawed. Claiming to be far right or left is nothing to be proud of at all

[JP226]

Purposly trying to kill of people of a certain "race", is much worse than inderectly killing people due to starving and stuff.

how? Because of "you" millions are dead. How can you unintentionally, or not Knowingly starve millions?

It is maybe arguble that Stalin practiced Genocide, but he cant stand alone to represent communist

Can hitler and mussolini stand alone to represent fascisim? What about polpot? What about Mao? what about kim jong il?

remember some people at the org saying they are fascists not nazis. There is a difference no matter how slight.

I have never seen a fascist here or on the org

[removeduser_487563287433]

Oh? Is there? Communism kills off anyone who is above the norm. Anyone who is not identical economically and socially. Is that not genocide? Would you rather be dead or alive and trapped in a meaningless existence?

I'm sorry.. actually I'm not... but that's complete and utter :wub:. If Communism killed off anyone above the norm they would have never got to the atomic or h-bomb.