The Identity of Arthur

[Riothamus]

Updated 12/12/09 WIP

The Story Of Post Roman Britannia:
When the last of the Roman army left Coel Hen (Coel the Old), wore the title as the Comes Britannia and he most likely based himself at York. As the Comes, he was simply promulgating the Roman military system in Britain. A similar example could be seen with Aedgious after 459AD and then later Sygarious in Gaul. Through military valor and wisdom he maintained British supremacy in the North repelling the invasions that occurred. After his death the Roman authority rapidly decayed and the Roman Provinces began to fracture into smaller British Kingdoms. The British Kingdoms began to take matters into their own hands with many of their leaders proclaiming a royal ancestry to legitimize their power. Coel Hen became the progenitor of several kingly lines in the Hen Ogledd. But a most powerful kingdom rose in Powys under Vitalinus. The British civitates now no longer acting on any Roman authority elected Vitalinus as the overlord King (The Vortigern) of all the British Kingdoms.




Under Vortigern Powys had prospered and it became the most influential kingdom within Britain. Vericonium, one of the few surviving cities of its time in Powys, was restored and benefited strategically with its central position next to the River Severn. From his power base in Powys, Vortigern began to consolidate his power by the old Roman practice of using foederati with the price of granting them lands within Britain. At his royal center at Vericonium, he strengthened his position. Re-introducing the Comes Britannia(Protector or Guletic) he granted the title to Cunnedda, a very powerful sub king from the Northern Votadini tribe of the Gododdin, to be in charge of Britain's mobile field army. He became Cunneda's father-in-law by giving him his daughter's hand in marriage and allowed some of the Votadini nobles to resettle some of their people in Gaelic, Scotti settled lands in Wales. He gave the Scotti within Wales foederati status and created dynastic ties with prominent Scotti families there that were linked to the High kings(Ard Ri) from across the sea. To combat the dire situation in the north due to the Pict invasions he continued the foederati practice and hired Anglo-Saxon mercenaries to crush them. He rewarded their successes with British lands to settle in. As the Anglo-Saxon settlements grew and increased in numbers so did the price to keep them happy. Vortigern created dynastic ties with them by marrying a Saxon princess and thus for the time being, keeping the peace.




Under Ambrosious the Elder the heavily influenced Roman Kingdom of Dummonia in the south remained to some extent autonomous. Dummonia's influence extended eastward to London and into the Gallic lands of Brittany. During the first of the Anglo-Saxon rebellions it is likely that this Ambrosius and many of the Romans in their occupied estates were targeted for their potential wealth thus perishing in the initial onslaught. Following the destructive assault the survivors gather together under the leadership of a young Ambrosius, who is described as "a gentleman who, perhaps alone of the Romans, had survived the shock of this notable storm". Dismayed at the destruction to his lands he asserted his power and waged a civil war against the forces of Vortigern winning a decisive battle of Guoloph in the year 459AD. By the year 460AD Vortigern abdicated the throne, and retreated to one of his strongholds, possibly in one of the Irish held regions in Western Wales. Ambrosius, consolidating his power, built a Royal residence, perhaps a "Capital" of sorts, reoccupying and refortifying the Iron Age hillfort of Cadbury Castle in Somerset, a base where he could launch his counter offensives and campaigns against the Anglo-Saxons.

The British people longing for a unified Britain rallied behind their kingdom's leader with the hope that he may become the Protector, or even their high King other than a Vortigern. From the increasing Gaelic influence and presence would emerge an Ard Ri (or Arth Ru in Welsh), an Arthur that would bring stability and prosperity to their torn lands once again.



From all these very different regions the valor of a historical King Arthur manifested itself along with other heroes and villains alike. From one of these British kingdoms the leaders and their heirs will have the ability to become a Protector of Britannia(Comes Britannia) and then the Arthur(Arth Ru), a title as the High King of Britannia. As an example, the Ambrosius faction(Regnum Britanniae Imperium) will be represented by Ambrosious Aurelious and an heir with a description of the circumstances that surround them in an historical event. After uniting key British areas , the building of 5 great fortresses, and the acquiring of key ancillaries that ends with the Arth Ru, the British champion will then be proclaimed the mighty King Arthur, King of the Britons...

5 British factions in all have a genuine historical claim to a King Arthur. The faction leaders and heirs contributed historically to the truth to who he was. So let one of them try and prove it through one of their best Arthurian historical candidates





The 5 British factions:
1 Statchclyde:
2 Rheged:
3 Romano British:
4 The Regnum Britanniae Imperium:
5 Votadini:

Scotti may have been most influential Kingdom in disseminating the Ard Ri(Arth Ru=Arthur) concept to the British because of their alliances and dynastic marriages between the two peoples.
6 Dal Riata

There will be a sequence of events that must be achieved in order such as:
WIP Ancillaries
-Ancillary: Famous Warrior. Trait: British Hero 1
-Ancillary: Comes Britannia.(Protector) Trait: British Hero 2: Required building(possibly Great King's Stables)
-Ancillary: Merlin Trait: British Hero 2: Required building(House of Heroes)
-Ancillary: Caliburn Sword Trait: British Hero 3
-Ancillary: Faction King Trait: British Hero 3
-Ancillary: Arth Ru (Arthur) Trait: British Hero 3: Required building(Regenum Court)

Other factions will strive for High Kingship as well


-The Saxon Confederation will strive for a Bretwalda Title
means most probably lord of the Britain's

-The Gaels: (Tribus Scotti, Mumainha, Ui Neil Gaels) High Kingship..Ard Ri
A Ri Ruirech was the king of an entire province. Higher than all was the Ard Ri...The Ard Ri was obtained by conquering all of Gaelic Ireland

-The Franks: High Kingship...
Rex Criniti: Long haired Kings. After conquering the Regnum Domain Of Noviodunum Lands

-The Picts: High Kingship...
Cruithne: High King or possibly a derivation of Ard Ri

-Regnum Domain Of Noviodunum:
Emperor: After reclaiming and holding onto their Gallic holdings the British Isles

-Regnum Britanniae Imperium:
The Emperor: and/or Arth Ru..Arth Ru if controlling British Isle
Emperor if controlling the British Isles and certain Gallic holdings

[Teutonic]

So the big secret is out! I think your idea is very good and will add immensely to gameplay. I might actually complete a campaign now.
You may name the mod around this. Something to do with High Kings, or Overlords of Britain.

[toluas]

Impressive! Looking forward to seeing all those features.

[Riothamus]

So the big secret is out! I think your idea is very good and will add immensely to gameplay. I might actually complete a campaign now.
You may name the mod around this. Something to do with High Kings, or Overlords of Britain.

Yes...still sort of wip but now got it to the point of just some tweaking it here and there.

I added the Scotti influence in more detail today.

Impressive! Looking forward to seeing all those features.

me too

[char]

Sounds good

[Reno Melitensis]

So as the history of ancient Britain after the last Roman legion departed the Island is rather a battle ground of Ethnic groups fighting for survival and supremacy. But did Ambrosius Aurelianus was successful in the end or did the confederacy of Saxons, Angles and Jutes prevail. And where did the Legend of the warrior Beowulf enters in all this.

Cheers.

[absinthia]

in reality non succeeded.
the Britons fragmented into a bunch of smaller kingdoms and their area of influence rapidly shrunk until it only covered modern wales and Strachclyde. by the 7h century the title High king of the Britons was eventually abandoned, as there were hardly any Britain to claim kingship over. in case of the Hwicce the lack of pagan burial mounds suggest that the Anglo-Saxon invaders absorbed the existing religious tradition of the British inhabitants, which in turn suggest a rather peaceful co-existence.
there were probably no hard division between Britons and Anglo-Saxons. During Edwins great expansion of Northunbria in the 7th century, Mercia was allied with Pengwern. also it is suggested that Ceredic, the supposed founder of Wessex in the early 6th century, was of mixed Anglo-Saxon and Briton origin.
also the Anglo-Saxons divided into several opposing kingdoms that eventually condensed into the Heptarchy, consisting of the seven largest kingdoms. this was of course ruined when their cousins, the vikings, arrived at the scene.

the Beowulf poem was probably written down in Anglo-Saxon Britain, besides that it has nothing to do with the British isles as it is mostly set in Denmark.

[Riothamus]

So as the history of ancient Britain after the last Roman legion departed the Island is rather a battle ground of Ethnic groups fighting for survival and supremacy. But did Ambrosius Aurelianus was successful in the end or did the confederacy of Saxons, Angles and Jutes prevail. And where did the Legend of the warrior Beowulf enters in all this.

Cheers.

What makes it all so very fascinating was that during the 150 year window period there were several shinning moments. It was during these pockets of time an Arthur appears.

[Reno Melitensis]

Interesting, so in the end the Romano Britains abandoned their struggle and co-existed peacefully with the Anglo Saxons. Than the ethnic background of Britain was changed again with the Viking invasion.

But I have one question to ask. Was the Saxon shore named so because Saxons auxiliaries or mercs managed the forts or because of the frequent Saxon incursions on the coast. And was not the barbarian conspiracy invented later, as far as I am concerned there is no historical background for it.

Cheers.

[Riothamus]

Interesting, so in the end the Romano Britains abandoned their struggle and co-existed peacefully with the Anglo Saxons. Than the ethnic background of Britain was changed again with the Viking invasion.

But I have one question to ask. Was the Saxon shore named so because Saxons auxiliaries or mercs managed the forts or because of the frequent Saxon incursions on the coast. And was not the barbarian conspiracy invented later, as far as I am concerned there is no historical background for it.

Cheers.

Well the Welsh and the Scots on and off through the medieval times bitterly fought the English. Its most likely a myth that the Anglo Saxons Genocide the British during successful invasions but at times large populations may have been wiped out in certain regions by both peoples at times.

Saxon Shore Forts
Saxon Shore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.athenapub.com/saxshor1.htm





.

[absinthia]

Interesting, so in the end the Romano Britains abandoned their struggle and co-existed peacefully with the Anglo Saxons. Than the ethnic background of Britain was changed again with the Viking invasion.

not really, i would rather say that the division between welsh(britons) and english(anglo-saxons) increased up through the centuries. those west of Offas dike supposedly maintained a roman identity well into the 7th - 8th century. further more the viking invasion can be considered a late wave of the anglo-saxons, considering that the great Heathen army and the Great summer army initially targeted Anglo-saxon kingdoms such as East-Anglia and Northumbria. the campaign was sponsored by the danish king and considering that the East-anglian kings belonged to the Wuffinga dynasty it is fair to assume there to be a strugle between dynasties, rather than cultures or ethnic peoples.
even the later normans originated in the north, so i would recon the struggle continued until the death of Llywelyn andOwain ap Dafydd.

but of course, most nothing went down peacefully in those days...

[Riothamus]

not really, i would rather say that the division between welsh(britons) and english(anglo-saxons) increased up through the centuries. those west of Offas dike supposedly maintained a roman identity well into the 7th - 8th century. further more the viking invasion can be considered a late wave of the anglo-saxons, considering that the great Heathen army and the Great summer army initially targeted Anglo-saxon kingdoms such as East-Anglia and Northumbria. the campaign was sponsored by the danish king and considering that the East-anglian kings belonged to the Wuffinga dynasty it is fair to assume there to be a strugle between dynasties, rather than cultures or ethnic peoples.
even the later normans originated in the north, so i would recon the struggle continued until the death of Llywelyn andOwain ap Dafydd.

but of course, most nothing went down peacefully in those days...

absinthia, Give me a pm if your interested in doing some historical stuff for us

[Sgt.Roadkill]

surprised no-one has mentioned Gildas yet especially as he talks about people who show up in the Arthur legend and 'He mentions the victory at the Battle of Mons Badonicus, in later texts attributed to King Arthur, though Gildas is unclear as to who led the battle.

For those who don't know, 'Saint' Gildas (c. 500 – 570) was a 6th-century British cleric. He is one of the best-documented figures of the Christian church in the British Isles during this period. His renowned learning and literary style earned him the designation Gildas Sapiens (Gildas the Wise). His work De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae, which contains narratives of the post-Roman history of Britain, is the only substantial source for history of this period written by a near-contemporary.

also wouldn't Gildas be a good ancillary for a Romano British faction?

[Riothamus]

surprised no-one has mentioned Gildas yet especially as he talks about people who show up in the Arthur legend and 'He mentions the victory at the Battle of Mons Badonicus, in later texts attributed to King Arthur, though Gildas is unclear as to who led the battle.

For those who don't know, 'Saint' Gildas (c. 500 – 570) was a 6th-century British cleric. He is one of the best-documented figures of the Christian church in the British Isles during this period. His renowned learning and literary style earned him the designation Gildas Sapiens (Gildas the Wise). His work De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae, which contains narratives of the post-Roman history of Britain, is the only substantial source for history of this period written by a near-contemporary.

also wouldn't Gildas be a good ancillary for a Romano British faction?

Hi Sgt.Roadkill

We I think brought him up in some context in the Developers room. ..An ancillary of him is very interesting. How do you think he should represent in the ancillary?

[Sgt.Roadkill]

ok i will try and pu forward my idea of adding gildas as a anicellary, i am not sure how the system works so bare with me.

2 things, i suggest splitting him in two kind of,

first one being Gildas and the second one is his book De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae

the stories often describe him as very religious but also a peace maker, but also talks about the Britains holding out against the saxons.

The Man
St. Gildas Sapiens (N/A for non Christian, non British or non Irish Faction, Family member only)
Move between characters: NO
+3 Piety
+3 authority (is that still being used?)
+2 morale for troops
+ Bonuses against saxons on the field of battle?
+spreads Christianity (celtic if it exists)

the Book!
triggering on a random family member or priest in the same region which contains Gildas
De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae
+3 Piety
+3 Authority/Un-orthodoxy
+spreads Christianity (celtic if it exists)

(also reading on gildas it suggested that at his time The Isle of Anglesey was the base of power of the kings of Gwynedd, dunno if you guys knew that or not but i through it out there anyway)

couple of closing points, 1st the info on gildas and the De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae on wikipedia at present is fairly accurate to my knowledge of both him and his work.

2nd i just thought of something, Would it be possible to make Gildas a wandering priest on the rebel faction which wanders around from region to region in Britain and ireland, no idea if this is possible but he could spread Christianity and unrest in the northern British factions. This would mean the book should be buffed but i have no idea if it is possible or doable.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I read in a book I checked out in the library that Flavius Aetius sent a minor Roman General (Probably a Dux) to Brittania to aid the Romano-British in response to the groans of the Britons.

[legio_XX]

he was dead by the start of this mod though..

[Riothamus]

I read in a book I checked out in the library that Flavius Aetius sent a minor Roman General (Probably a Dux) to Brittania to aid the Romano-British in response to the groans of the Britons.

May need to quote that reference my friend

I've heard and read of conjectures but nothing ever in stone in regards to this

he was dead by the start of this mod though..

Yes but the minor Roman general may have been successful if sent in the late 440-50s and a potential Arth Ru by 460...but thats an an assumption

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I'll look for where I got that from. He couldn't supply troops when the letter was written in the 440s, but he sent a minor general to help train the romano british military and help armor and arm them.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I found it! Germanus, a former Roman General and Bishop of Auxerre, Visited Britan right after the letter was sent, from 446-447. He is believed to be Aetius' Response to the letter