Laptop buying/upgrade guide or the will it run thread *UPDATED, CPUs, GPUs, 02/23/10

[Karamazovmm]

Have seen too many threads in the technical area dedicated to ask if your pc will run ETW, have decided to create this thread to answer those questions


-The CPU

This is the heart of your PC, he commands! And as such we have to choose a good one.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

*If you're buying a laptop don't buy in any case a AMD chipset! if you're buying a desktop choose at will

What to choose'

In pc we always try for a one size fits all, but most of you know that doesn't come anywhere near true, since we have such a huge numbers of pcs and as such we have to have some knowledge for us to grab the one we want it.

The letter/type of chip (order of the list is higher to lower) :
- i7= holy mother! best processor you can get in laptops, *Strengths: Great performance Weakness: not the most power conscious chip.
- i5= the most powerful two core processor around,*Strengths: Excellent processing power, great power saver Weakness: none that was shown
- i3= this is for the wallet conscious, still pack a good power, just like the old core duo
- Q= means that it's a quad core *Strengths: Great processing power Weakness: Gulp a lot of power
- T= means a normal core duo *Strengths: Good Performance Weakness: Could be more power conscious
- P= means a smaller voltage core duo *Strengths: Good performance, sips little power Weakness: not as powerful as the the T line
- SL/SP/ULV= means ultra low voltage processors *Strengths: People on the go that need more processing power that your netbook can give Weakness: Has a low processing power compared to the others, although it gives double the performance of an Atom

The i5 and i3 have now some interesting feature, they can transmit hd video wirelessly, what? Yes they use a hdmi connection with a special router to transmit those neat image from your screen to some bigger screen that you like without those cables, very useful if you want to use them as HTPC (home theater pc)

-Graphics card

Always buy a pc with DEDICATED graphics, it means a chip dedicated only to do the graphics work, there are two providers of this thing, ATI and NVIDIA. Intel graphics (GMA 4500hd, GMA X3100, GMA 965, or lower are INTEGRATED, FOR PLAYING ANYTHING ELSE THAN YOUTUBE THEY'RE CRAP)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Power of the graphics:

As of any products we have series, versions, etc.. here are some of they (order newer to older):

Nvidia G 200 = newest of the bunch
ATI HD 4000 = newest of the bunch
Nvidia G 100 = rebranding of the 9000 series
Nvidia 9000 = the most common series of Nvidia
Nvidia 8000 = old series don't buy at all costs
ATI HD 3000 = old series don't buy at all costs

Graphics card have a lot of digits/letters! We can get confused, and as such I have thought a way that might minimize the distress caused by that huge amount of choices.

1- Let's pay attention to the power of the card!
2- Let's see what resolution that your monitor have (most notebooks come with a 1280x1024, 1366x768, 1680x1050,1920x1080).

take a look at this picture (click to expand)


* Those are the most common graphics are out there, if you don't find it here, don't worry use the common sense, the higher the number the better, and you can also check at :

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Compari...rds.130.0.html

* in the Nvidia world there's lots of flavors, and they are showed to us in letters, and now they're here with a ranking order, the usual higher to lower:
GTX > GTS > GT > GS

Nvidia has a custom of rebranding things, and that's what she done with the GT 200. What? Yes my boy, every model except the GT 240 are some form of rebranding, are from the old architecture, sometimes higher clocked, with a slight increase in shadders, but essentially the same product. Now the GT 240 uses the "new" GT 200 architecture from pcs, err what do you mean.

I'm saying that the GTX 280 that your thinking is the same GTX 280 from desktop, uses the G92b architecture, that's the same as the 8800 GT from the desktop world. And getting a GTX 280 sli, gives you the same power as the 8800 GTX from the desktop world. Sad, hum?

Now the GT 300 line is brand new based in the GT 200 desktop line. Although they offer almost the same performance as the old cards, i.e. the GT 230= GT 330, the variation is minimum. Although we do have to wait for the top of the line models, but it seems that what will save Nvidia in the laptop market is optimus (more on this as soon as it becomes more material).

So basically here if you want to play empire I would recommend something higher than the HD 4330 from ATI, you can play but with the lowest settings, something along the lines of the HD 4650 should do you fine playing on medium or high even, above that you get great performance

PS: I will update ATI side of things, as soon as the drivers mature, since the HD 5850 now have the same performance as the HD 4850, sometimes less.

-Memmory

It's the courier that your pc uses to fetch some data at high speeds.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The higher the merrier, as of now most of the notebooks are comming with 2gb, 3gb, 4gb, go for the higher way 4gb, but remember to look at OS (operational system) that you're using!

32-bit = use only 3gb even if you have more
64-bit = use up to 128gb

So, when buying your pc it will probably come with windows, choose, please, the 64-bit version of it, example: windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit. Future proof your system!

You can upgrade your memory, it's easy, but remember 4g for now is the best for the price.

-Hard Drive

He remembers all those movies and photos that you put in your pc!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The most common ones are the 320gb or the 250gb go for the higher number there are available up to 640gb.
The speed of the hd is defined by the size of it and the rpm, the higher the better, altough it will consume more power, common speeds are 5400rpm and 7200rpm

SSDs:

They're the most novelty of the market, they work like the thumb drive that you and I commonly use, they don't have moveable parts and they're FAST AND EXPENSIVE! if you have the money go get one if not do as I do, wait....

Other important Stuff!

Here are some other important stuff that are very worth mentioning!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-Screen

The higher the resolution the better, 1366X768 is becoming common, for me it's great some people would go all the way HD in here, but for some people like me that don't have a 20/20 vision in my case more of a 0/0 the "lower the better". Remember 1366X768 is 16:9 format, you have seen this format in your TV, but the most usual format for now for pcs is 16:10, which is falling down the guts...

There are some types there, the LCD, the LED, the RGB-LED!??! Simply put the RGB-LED are the best, now they are only available at dell, seconded by the LED.

Matte screen or glossy? personal taste, I do prefer matte.

-The Chassis

The notebook is something that you carry around, or should, and so always verify if it is rugged enough for you, if it isn't most chances are that you end up breaking the plastic of some part of it.

-The weight

Go for the one that seens light, seriously go for that one, notebooks are portable things, and altough you think yourself to have some strength, you will add some 2,5kg to 5kg to your backpack which already, if your like me its filled with things, so we are travelling light let's hunt some orcs!

-Notebooks that I don't recommend

HP Pavillion line - they're expensive (in my country Brazil), they have serious heat issues, and don't pack power.
Dell Inspiron line - they're cheap and that's it, your not going to game anything in here

Here are some good machines at reasonable prices:

16" to 18"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834114706
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834101203
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220622
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834114785
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834117947

15"to 14"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220605
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834146613
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220634
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834117908

If I were you I would look at some MSI notebook specially the gt640 which is portable and has some good guts

Not advertising but from this list I would personally go for the lenovo, good graphics chip, and processor, if the company is not know to you, they bought the pc part of IBM, there's quality and price in there

=Online Stores per Country=

I want to add a new section to both guides so people can make more conscious choices and get better prices, along as well better machines.
This is a part that is going to be constantly update since I'm asking the contribution of all of you people out there!
This section don't have any intention to advertise, just to make you make better choices, to handle better your precious hard worked money! Here we have some, they're going to be divided by country so take a look around!

-US-

Retailers

www.newegg.com
www.tigerdirect.com
www.zipzoomfly.com
www.microcenter.com

Manufacturers

http://www.falcon-nw.com/
http://www.ibuypower.com/lobby.aspx
www.cyberpowerpc.com

-UK-

http://www.ebuyer.com/

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/produc...hp?groupid=701

http://www.scan.co.uk/

[Socrates1]

Props for making a guide.

Yes the P series intel processors consume less power and perform the same. But that also means they are a little more expensive (not much).

Dell's newest studio laptops are top notch right now (alright, maybe the graphics cards are just mid-range but for the money they're good). I say they're good because for around $1100 you get the new i7 mobile processor, 4 gb DDR3 RAM, a mid range card, 720p screen... just take a look. I've been recommending Sager laptops, there are a couple that I feel are really good for the money. Asus has some quality laptops and so does MSI. In fact, I saw an MSI with a ati hd mobility 4850 (equivalent to desktop 4830) for under $1300. If you decide to go Sony go for the FW series. Good stuff.

HP is overpriced because they're #1, or maybe not, that's just the only reason I can think of. Alienware is overpriced. If you want to spend a lot of money buy a high-end Sager, or maybe a Falcon Northwest.

The best compromise for price/power/size is a 15-16 inch laptop. The larger the battery the better. But if you get something like a 9-cell it does stick out and raises the back of the laptop; which I feel is a good thing as it promotes airflow and acts like a handhold.

NewEgg is always a good site but if you'd like another place to see your options...

www.xoticpc.com/

And once again, grats on making this board.

[DUFFMAN]

Nice guide
Maybe a sticky?

[Karamazovmm]

That was my intention, there's always a new thread about this topic everyday so here it is, I hope it's simple enough and not proverbial enough.
any question or tips I would be glad to answer, and if it's complicated I would modify this guide. feedback is always good

Agree with you on the studio line, the graphic power is limited, but the processor power is not, but for me with the lenovo ideapad Y550 being offered at US$ 999, they're a great deal. The Ideapad comes with the i7 720QM, 4g, 500gb, and a GT240 with 1 GDDR3 dedicated, that'why I a indicated that, very good price and a good deal.

[jackliverpool18]

can i by a beta graphics card cos my 1 is crap

[Karamazovmm]

can i by a beta graphics card cos my 1 is crap

What the hell?

[irishron]

What the hell?

My reaction.

[The Hedge Knight]

This was very helpful, thankyou

I'll vote for a sticky and +rep

[Karamazovmm]

thank you, a mod could converge all those threads to here, so that people can get there answers faster (not implying that some here don't cooperate) but since you put all the things here it might be faster not to ask but to read, saving the asker time

i'm currently finishing a upgrade/buy desktop thread in the molds of this one, should be up anytime now

[Gungrave]

My advice that to anyone seeking to have a laptop or "Portable Desktop" as their gaming machine would be to stay away. Use desktop for gaming and laptop for the lest resource intensive applications and games.

I bought an alienware 7500 laptop a few years back and it worked for 6th months. Yes i took great care of it. Though it shut down automaticly due to overheating protection. I paid 3,308 for the laptop and another 1,000 to try and fix it with no results. Laptops do not have the same amount of space to disipate heat as do desktops.

Just my advice.

[Karamazovmm]

gungrave a lot has change since those days, yes the heat is still a problem, you could probably still get more performance for the money with a desktop, and albeit all of this I can recommend for you to buy a laptop that can serve as a gaming machine, see those laptops posted in the end of the thread? all of them work! you can say to me that some laptops still overheat from the heavy components, and I can say to you that some desktop from boutique shops like dell, and specially hp have a lot of heat issues, bad components, and some other bad stuff... seriously no matter where and what you're dealing with you still have to face some pay that will rob (alienware is only expensive, they use high end things but not even close to sager or northwest or some other HIGH END pc builder, not even close! I saw people selling a "notebook" with a desktop i7!, that's high end builder!, alienware is just boutique and name

[Emperor Charlemagne XII]

wow thanxs i needed this guide

[Karamazovmm]

Glad I could help emperor

[YD23]

Great guide that should help a lot of people.
Stickied.

[mAIOR]

FYI, here in Portugal at least the new HP DV6-1330SP/EP has the best price/quality on the market.

for, generally, 699€ ($1,016.89 USD) you get 4GB DDR3 RAM, an ATI HD 4650 with dedicated 1GB of DDR3, a T6600 processor, 500GB of hard drive... the works.
Acer Aspire 6930G-644G32Mn comes as a worthy second. It has less disc space, less powerful a processor, memory is all DDR2, it's heavier (3,1 Kg vs 2.8) and still has vista 32bit. However, it has a slightly better graphics card (9600M GT vs hp's 4650) and it's cheaper (100€ cheaper).
Anyone wanting a new laptop, I'd recommend one of these.


Cheers...

[Karamazovmm]

MAIOR the problem stands as the HP quality of construction, which is low, specially for the pavillion line, that is filled with heating issues. Anyway the price of those laptops are great.

Ps: how in the nine hells that you saw this thread Ishron? It appears that sticky threads have the invisibility mantle over then

[irishron]

MAIOR o problema se resume a qualidade de construção da HP, que é baixa, especialmente para a linha pavillion, que tem problemas de aquecimento. mas de qualquer forma o preço das maquinas é otimo!

Would mind putting that in English for us that don't speak Portuguese?

[Emperor Charlemagne XII]

WHAT IS THE BEST GRAPHICS CARD EVER!!! I DO NOT CARE ABOUT PRICE

[Karamazovmm]

Emperor the best out there for the moment is the GTX 280 sli, which has the same power as the desktop 9800 GT, The best laptop graphics card are those from mid range, which have almost the same power as those ones that take reference in the desktop world, although it's clear that ATI with the 4670M and the 4830M are the best ones out there that in the power VS performance comparison and weight ratio.

Moreover the great problem here is that the weight and power consuption are the worst problems for those cards, meaning that when you go out of the mid range, it stops being a laptop, becoming more of a all in one, in laptop format. in the Xotic pc you could buy a "laptop" that had a i7 920 processor (desktop processor), simply stating it weighted 10 kg

[Socrates1]

That dancing kitten avatar is mesmerizing...

Alright, what should I post... Ummm... wow, didn't think this through. Wanted to say something about high end cards in laptops but I really don't have much to say about them. Maybe somebody could do the leg work (if it hasn't already been done) and throw up some quick numbers of say... the ati hd 4650 mobility vs the ati hd 4850 mobility, relating to power usage. Ditto on the Nvdia, one of their mid-range cards vs high-range. Might be good info for those concerned about battery life; ie. they want the best graphics/power efficiency ratio.

Also anyone planning to game with their laptops and who want to keep the ability to make babies should consider investing in either a laptop cooling pad or something similar (I guess any flat surface would work). Cooling pads range from around $10- however much you want to spend. Bonus of keeping your laptop cool, whether through a free option like a slab of marble you have hanging around or something you paid for, is it will extend it's life. And give you a better gaming experience as you don't have to worry about your card or processor down-clocking because things get too hot.

Glad Xotic helped out. I don't think I'd ever buy from them but they certainly show what's out there.

Random info: I can run Oblivion (with only the unofficial bugfixer mods) maxed out with only occasional lag on my ati mobility radeon hd 4570. It's a mid/low end card. Then again, it can only handle about 4000 troops without lag in Rome Total Realism. Much more than that and it's a lag fest until loads die. Even if I lower everything all the way... so methinks it's more of a vRAM limit? Or maybe I shouldn't speculate because I know nothing?

Keep rockin those headphones dancing avatar kitty.

EDIT: Throwin up a vote for monitors. Getting a durable high quality screen is important and deserves a mention and a little info if it's not already there. Then again when you're buying a laptop you often don't see who makes the displays for that laptop.

EDIT #2: I run Oblivion at a 720p resolution. Lags when run at 1080p.