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Thread: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

  1. #161
    RomanSoldier9001's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    hitler would've wanted to attack the USA sometime soon after cosolidating europe i reckon
    he always ranted on about the jews in america

    except this time he might be able to do it with V-2 rockets, jet fighters and a possible nuke
    He could ranted all he want because there would be no invasion the germans didnt invade Britain you think they would have the power to invade a super power like USA miles and miles from their home country?
    Short answer...
    NOOOOO.

    Yes allies would "beat the nazis" (love the cliché vocabulary) but probaly most of europe would be communist occupied by Soviets I guess we didnt want that do we? But since a lot of people find them liberators and heroes or at least better than those "damm nazis" it would be for greater good.
    Last edited by RomanSoldier9001; January 26, 2010 at 07:47 PM.

  2. #162
    Hakkapeliitta's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    The British might want to opt for a landing in the Balkans, wasn't that what Churchill was pushing for? Though they'll have to deal with Crete somehow. But if successful, they could link up with Soviets and head for Germany.

    But the only way for Germany to win, is if Britain surrenders or sues for peace before the Battle of Britain, and the Soviets are so shocked of their initial losses in Operation Barbarossa that they surrender before winter 1941. Otherwise they know that they can fight Germany and Germany has no chance if SU and Britain won't give up because Germany can't keep up with attrition or supply their troops as well as the Allies can.

  3. #163
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Praefectus Legionis
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    Neither Britain or the SU would have surrendered in either of those two scenarios you stated Hakkapeliitta.

    Better question is if SU never received AID from the west could they still have had the ability to resist the Germans. What if the Germans managed to completely cut the SU off from AID, or at least partially. Would they have been able to force the SU to a draw in Siberia after taking Moscow and Stalingrad.

    Then again why even ask this, Hitler was a raving lunatic and he killed so many people. Id rather have seen a successful coup in Germany, or a successful Anglo-French invasion of the Ruhr Land in 1939. Pussies sat behind their ing Wall while the Germans will busy with Poland. They should of attacked with what they had at hand and forced a conscription to pick up the tail.

  4. #164
    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    The British might want to opt for a landing in the Balkans, wasn't that what Churchill was pushing for? Though they'll have to deal with Crete somehow. But if successful, they could link up with Soviets and head for Germany.
    ^^Yeah, Churchill advocated a strategy of moving through Italy (Which did happen), as well as Greece and the Balklans (Which didn't). He called it 'the soft underbelly of Europe'. In the end there was a compromise with American generals leading to an invasion of Italy (Which is what Britain pursued) and D-Day (Which is what the US pursued).
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  5. #165
    Heavy Weapons Guy's Avatar Intelligent Heavy
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    you merely voted the right way, also calling me nationalistic when you're the one constantly arguing for the british side and have 'british etc.' on your sig and avatar is pretty weird and ironic

    furthermore, to your outrageous claim (by twisting the semantics of the sentence around) that the allies had a chance. well I'll look to Churchill again on his opinion on the matter. He made a speech about defending Britain to the death, right? who makes this speech if one is supposedly on a winning streak? the speech was about the possible invasion of your island, what 'chance' of victory is that haha. take a damn look to the past, Germany was kicking the crap out of anything in it's path, so was japan, I don't think Churchill would've seen any victory out of that, just peace on terms favorable to Germany.
    Allies only won because of USA. Hadn't USA declared war or attacked Germany would win. Soviet Union was weaker and couldn't defeat Germany.

  6. #166
    Tiberios's Avatar Pro Rege Et Grege
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan Mustafa I View Post
    Allies only won because of USA. Hadn't USA declared war or attacked Germany would win. Soviet Union was weaker and couldn't defeat Germany.
    Lol, no we didn't win the war solely because of the US. The US was crucial to the D-Day and the war effort of the Western Allies. The Russians had already begun pushing back the Germans on the E. front after Stalingrad.

    TIn the desert, the US came to late to have any significant impact on that theatre. Again, the US was crucial, but the war was not impossible to win without them.
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  7. #167
    Heavy Weapons Guy's Avatar Intelligent Heavy
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    USSR was only able to do massive counter attack because of USA and allies supplies. Without them German army would regroup and would start again to push back USSR.

  8. #168
    Nikitn's Avatar Centurio Primus Ordine
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan Mustafa I View Post
    USSR was only able to do massive counter attack because of USA and allies supplies. Without them German army would regroup and would start again to push back USSR.
    No they wouldn't.

    And yes the allies would have won regardless imo.

  9. #169
    Tiberios's Avatar Pro Rege Et Grege
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan Mustafa I View Post
    USSR was only able to do massive counter attack because of USA and allies supplies. Without them German army would regroup and would start again to push back USSR.
    With what forces? The Germans tried and this was the result:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Zitadelle

    a stinging defeat for the Germans.

    At this time they simply could not replace the troops and material lost, while the Soviet production soared. The soviets could have managed without the US.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern...ustrial_output

    The Soviet victory owed a great deal to the ability of her war industry to outperform the German economy, despite the enormous loss of population and land. Stalin's five-year plans of the 1930s had resulted in the industrialization of the Urals and central Asia. In 1941, the trains that shipped troops to the front were used to evacuate thousands of factories from Belarus and Ukraine to safe areas far from the front lines. Once these facilities were reassembled east of the Urals, production could be reassumed without fear of German bombing.
    The soviets could have easily outproduced the germans without lend lease hlp, which in the first years, was mostly small arms ammunition and food supplies, much of which went to the besiged city of leningrad.
    Last edited by Tiberios; January 27, 2010 at 01:39 PM.
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  10. #170
    Mr. Scott's Avatar Sagittarius
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    hitler would've wanted to attack the USA sometime soon after cosolidating europe i reckon
    he always ranted on about the jews in america

    except this time he might be able to do it with V-2 rockets, jet fighters and a possible nuke
    Well, you'd probably end up with a cold war situation. Germany wouldn't have the capability to invade the US. Its just too far away and they didn't have a big enough or strong enough navy to do so. However, you would have Nazi Europe and Japan against the American coalition.

    Basically, it would result in a world war, where virtually the entire world would be the battlefield, not just islands and Europe. Us would probably try to get latin america to side with them and would scramble to get any allies it could.

    Not good, no telling who would win in that situation.

    now this is assuming that the US did not give any supplies to britain or Russia.
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  11. #171
    Hakkapeliitta's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Neither Britain or the SU would have surrendered in either of those two scenarios you stated Hakkapeliitta.
    Well that's sort of my point. The British would have never surrendered as long as Churchill had any say in it, and Battle of Britain was pretty much unwinnable for the Germans. Also the Soviets would not have surrendered as it was a literal life and death situation for them. I just tried to point out that the only scenario where Germany could win was if the Allies just roll over and die.

    The Allies just need to drag the war on, and every year their advantage over the Axis will grow. The British had the strategy of nibbling at the periphery of the Axis sphere of influence, and the Soviets were going to gain the upper hand in the eastern front eventually. One really only needs to look at Operations Zitadelle and Bagration to see that in the end the Germans were no match to the Red Army strategically.

    But then again a scenario where the US won't join the Allies is pretty much unthinkable too. Weren't both the Democrats and Republicans in favor of it?

  12. #172
    Boyar Son's Avatar Equites
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    Default Re: If the Americans never joined the fight against Hitler, would the Alliess still beat the Nazis?

    It's hitler's fault for leaving the west open anyway. w/out britain the US would have no 'diving board' to jump into europe. so the US would fight japan on each island, but probably not even touch germany because of U-boats of the atlantic and the sheer distance.

    than again what-ifs are hardly accurate.
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