The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

[DevrimJan]

I thought you guys intended to make custom maps for the most important settlements, perhaps not for the first release though. Am I wrong to make that assumption?

[Foot]

I thought you guys intended to make custom maps for the most important settlements, perhaps not for the first release though. Am I wrong to make that assumption?

Yes. that is incorrect.

Custom maps for settlements have the unfortunate side-effect of being un-upgradeable. For example, with the city of Rome, do we have a custom map to represent its size and sophistication at 272BC, 200BC, or 100BC. They were vastly different places at those different times (the same with other cities), but with custom maps we are still unable to portray those cities properly. For the amount of work that it would require, the effort is not particularly worth it.

Foot

[DevrimJan]

So there won't be any custom settlements at all?

[Sting the King]

Good, I think that making custom settlements would be a giant loss of time and effort. Cities are not some stationary objects in time and space, they evolve and change. What if I raid and completly destroy Rome, burn it to the ground and whatnot, as it could have happened. Should it then have the same glorious look on the custom settlement map? Ofc not.

[Foot]

Good, I think that making custom settlements would be a giant loss of time and effort. Cities are not some stationary objects in time and space, they evolve and change. What if I raid and completly destroy Rome, burn it to the ground and whatnot, as it could have happened. Should it then have the same glorious look on the custom settlement map? Ofc not.

I don't think that that is a good example. Without custom map settlements, you still have the same problem that effects on a settlement are not carried over (although some buildings on the campaign map can be made to appear on the battlemap only when they are built). If you raze a Huge City to the ground, it will still look like a Huge City the next time you view it.

Foot

[Sting the King]

True, I guess it wasn't such a good example.

[Geppenguin]

I have two wonder suggestions which I hope the EBII team will take seriously.

Firstly, Cappadocia/ Kappadokia's Göreme Valley. Kappadokia was a province in EBI, but its fairy chimneys and its houses dug into its soft volcanic rock were not mentioned. These caves have long been a refuge for any locals who were being persecuted, and was of particular importance later on for the early Christian church. One such hideout was 8 stories deep, had good ventilation and storage areas for food and animals in addition to wine cellars and wells, able to house hundreds. At any rate, the natural beauty of these wonders should somehow be represented in EBII, especially since it is a UNESCO World Heritage Site.




Next, Pamukkale/Hierapolis/Cotton Castle
The mineral springs of Pamukkale have long been a form of tourist attraction for those seeking for a cure in its waters, much like Britian's Bath. The Phyrigians were the first to build a settlement there, and its temple frequented by the people of Laodiceia. Later, Pergamon gained control of it after its victory over Antiochus the Great together with the Romans, founding the city proper. It later passed to Rome, and in its heyday reached the size of 100000, all thanks to the springs. While the city was not present at the start date the springs were already well-known in the region, and should be included.

[revan1013]

Personally, having lived in Turkey for awhile I can say that those two sites mentioned above would be an excellent addition to the wonders, if it's possible to add them.

[clone]

I don't think that that is a good example. Without custom map settlements, you still have the same problem that effects on a settlement are not carried over (although some buildings on the campaign map can be made to appear on the battlemap only when they are built). If you raze a Huge City to the ground, it will still look like a Huge City the next time you view it.

Foot

at least make generic cities.generic greek .roman .......

[bobbin]

We plan to.

[atheniandp]

Hi everyone, I'd like to suggest the Akrokorinthos/Acrocorinth! A grand monolithic rock and the site of the acropolis of Corinth. Much grander and more magnificent than the Acropolis of Athens if I may so boldly claim. It was the location of the ancient temple of Aphrodite in which supposedly 1000 (might be mistaken) offered their services.

"As ancient monuments, there are the ruins of Temple of Aphrodite, later converted into church, Fountain of Peirene, and one tower at the middle gate. The ancient circuit wall was mostly dismantled by the Roman army in the 2nd century BC. The walls and gates in the photo above mostly belong to the Venetian, Frankish or Ottoman period. "

Accessible only from south:





View from the top, looking towards Modern Corinth and the Isthmus:




Also, I'd like to suggest the Diolkos of Isthmus.



Mooring Place






"The Diolkos (Δίολκος, from the Greek διά, dia "across" and ὁλκός, holkos "portage") was a paved trackway near Corinth in Ancient Greece which enabled boats to be moved overland across the Isthmus of Corinth. The shortcut allowed ancient vessels to avoid the dangerous circumnavigation of the Peloponnese peninsula. The phrase "as fast as one from Corinth", penned by the popular comic playwright Aristophanes, indicates that the trackway was regarded as common knowledge and had acquired a certain reputation for swiftness.[1]
The main function of the Diolkos was the transfer of goods, although in times of war it also became a preferred means of speeding up naval campaigns. The 6 km (3.7 mi) to 8.5 km (5.3 mi) long roadway was a rudimentary form of railway,[2] and operated from c. 600 BC until the middle of the 1st century AD.[3] The scale on which the Diolkos combined the two principles of the railway and the overland transport of ships remained unique in antiquity.[4]

[yuezhi]

@ atheniandp the causeway is already in EB1 and will definitely be included in the sequel.

I want to ask if there was a wonder in Xiyu in EB1. I've seen a landmark indicating a wonder but have never figured out what it's for.

[bobbin]

Don't think so, it might be there to represent the off map trade building.

[yuezhi]

could it be the tarim mummies?

[bobbin]

Why would they be a wonder?

[yuezhi]

i guess i overestimated their importance but it's just that those are the kinds of relics that are rarely spoken of in the west like most wonders in EB. Even if i wanted to argue for their inclusion into EB, it would be impossible because there's not enough information on google. I suppose we can thank the political and ethnic situation for that. also, i don't know where the location should be; for all i know, they could be off the map.

I'm no national, but it seems there's nothing of interest in Tajikistan and far west China from antiquity per se.

[bobbin]

The wonders in EB are supposed to be things the people alive at the time would consider wonders, not ones that are important today. In EB's time the Tarim mummies were just a bunch of graves scattered around the basin, and a lot of them weren't buried until after EBs timeframe.

[ALFAJI]

how about petra for arabia

[XSamatan]

Re-check the campaign map in that area....

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Statue of Zeus anyone?