Maratha troops

[littleleo]

Hi all !

I'm in 1762 during my french campaigne. I conquered Ceylan and now i attacking the south of India. But Maratha units seems very strong !!! They have a very strong moral (never retreat befor lost 80% of their troops), they artillery is strong and accurate (more +++ than mine !). The camel artillery is strong, speed and had an incredible range (the can beat very easily my artillery). The cavalery is very strong ...
They rush me with all the units (Hand-to-hand fight ... they are strongest than me)
They can build 2nd Rate ... is it possible, is it historical ?

Can you tell me how to beat them ? (especially the camel artillery).

Thanks

[Johan217]

Hi all !

I'm in 1762 during my french campaigne. I conquered Ceylan and now i attacking the south of India. But Maratha units seems very strong !!! They have a very strong moral (never retreat befor lost 80% of their troops), they artillery is strong and accurate (more +++ than mine !). The camel artillery is strong, speed and had an incredible range (the can beat very easily my artillery). The cavalery is very strong ...
They rush me with all the units (Hand-to-hand fight ... they are strongest than me)
They can build 2nd Rate ... is it possible, is it historical ?

Can you tell me how to beat them ? (especially the camel artillery).

Thanks

I never got around to balance the Indian factions properly, so it's very possible that their units are overpowered. When I have time...
The fact that I never even had the time to play a campaign with them isn't doing any good either

At least I am about halfway with a revision of the naval units, so the Eastern factions will get different ship types in the early game, and only be able to upgrade to European Ship-of-the-Line types after obtaining a certain technology. From what I've read, however, the Martaha possessed quite a capable navy, so it's not entirely unhistorical.

[jackwei]

Hi all !

I'm in 1762 during my french campaigne. I conquered Ceylan and now i attacking the south of India. But Maratha units seems very strong !!! They have a very strong moral (never retreat befor lost 80% of their troops), they artillery is strong and accurate (more +++ than mine !). The camel artillery is strong, speed and had an incredible range (the can beat very easily my artillery). The cavalery is very strong ...
They rush me with all the units (Hand-to-hand fight ... they are strongest than me)
They can build 2nd Rate ... is it possible, is it historical ?

Can you tell me how to beat them ? (especially the camel artillery).

Thanks

I agree i remember one time having veteran 3 chervons of experience British regulars lost fights against their incredibly strong hindu musketeers in melee, which is madness and about the Factions in India build proper ships of the line is complete madness by CA. You could spend tones of time defending your shores as GB or France with your navy and destroy those pirates and by the time you have a sufficent force set for India the Marathas ships of the line, which is crazy. lol as if they could of stopped the Great Powers from Europe from going in their Waters!!

[littleleo]

In my campaign Maratha conquered Louisiana and French West Indies with two full stack army and powerfull navy ... After many effort and lost i reconquered it !!! It is easier to beat a hight level full stack Brit troop than standard Maratha full stack !!!

[Serenissima]

Unfortunately, until we can put new ship models in the game, we don't really have any choice... CA's entirely centred-on-Western-Europe method of seeing things is problematic for naval things in the game!

However, the European colonies used the shipyards in India to build many, many ships, as the skilled labour and resources were available there for much more cheaply than in Europe. And the Indian powers were not navally incapable, either, though they didn't use identical vessels to Europeans...

[Beastro]

Unfortunately, until we can put new ship models in the game, we don't really have any choice... CA's entirely centred-on-Western-Europe method of seeing things is problematic for naval things in the game!

However, the European colonies used the shipyards in India to build many, many ships, as the skilled labour and resources were available there for much more cheaply than in Europe. And the Indian powers were not navally incapable, either, though they didn't use identical vessels to Europeans...

Plus they had access to tropical hard woods like teak.

Ships built in Indian (and Cuba for the same reason) were especially prized by European navies.

I never got around to balance the Indian factions properly, so it's very possible that their units are overpowered. When I have time...
The fact that I never even had the time to play a campaign with them isn't doing any good either

Mysore uses the Ottoman troop line btw.

[Edax]

Martha is plagued with several problems, but at least it is both overpowered and underpowered.
They don't seem to have very good horseman, gotta be the worse out of all the factions. (These guys can barely fight artillry crews)
Their infantry is redudent, some strong, some very bad.
They have no howitzer units, and I have no idea why not...
Their 64 pounder guns can't defend themselves (no grapeshot)

A good way to balance them is to have their upper class infantry be considered a guard unit, and given a cap.
Give them howitzers, fix the 64s, give them some better horse calvery, and maybe give the Hindoo Musketters less accurcy and ammo (but keep their melee score high)
Hell, give the Musket Elephants rifles, like the Camels, if you can afford an elephant, you can afford a rifle.

[Johan217]

Mysore uses the Ottoman troop line btw.

?! Now that can't be right...

[littleleo]

Martha is plagued with several problems, but at least it is both overpowered and underpowered.
They don't seem to have very good horseman, gotta be the worse out of all the factions. (These guys can barely fight artillry crews)
Their infantry is redudent, some strong, some very bad.
They have no howitzer units, and I have no idea why not... (not a problem)
Their 64 pounder guns can't defend themselves (no grapeshot)

A good way to balance them is to have their upper class infantry be considered a guard unit, and given a cap.
Give them howitzers (not necessary), fix the 64s, give them some better horse calvery (No), and maybe give the Hindoo Musketters less accurcy and ammo (but keep their melee score high)
Hell, give the Musket Elephants rifles, like the Camels, if you can afford an elephant, you can afford a rifle.

Thanks, somme of you'r proposition are good, but please less range and accuracy for Camel unit !
Thanks

[Beastro]

?! Now that can't be right...

I had my charge of Sipahi countered by the same unit from Mysore.

That's was before corruptions ruined my Ottoman game.

[Edax]

I agree i remember one time having veteran 3 chervons of experience British regulars lost fights against their incredibly strong hindu musketeers in melee, which is madness and about the Factions in India build proper ships of the line is complete madness by CA. You could spend tones of time defending your shores as GB or France with your navy and destroy those pirates and by the time you have a sufficent force set for India the Marathas ships of the line, which is crazy. lol as if they could of stopped the Great Powers from Europe from going in their Waters!!

I'm not sure I understand your rant against the hindoo musketeers, I just tested these guys out and their utter crap! With a moral of 5, and the fact that only front line fires, you have to be an idiot to lose to these guys. Granted, each of them is carrying a sword, but that only means your an idiot for not gunning these guys down in the first place.

As for the other guy's rants (littleleo) toward the calvery, the best horses Martha has is a lancer calvery with a moral rating of 8. Calling these guys overpowered is stupid, most of Europe have horse guards to count on. (moral 12) As for saying that denying Martha howizers is just discriminatory, meaning that percussion shells are only given to the nerfed mortars, who can't hit worth a damn anymore.

The camel artillery is strong, speed and had an incredible range (the can beat very easily my artillery). The cavalery is very strong ...
They rush me with all the units (Hand-to-hand fight ... they are strongest than me)


Can you tell me how to beat them ? (especially the camel artillery).

Thanks

I don't under this Camel artillery you speak of. The Camel Gunners do have the range of riflemen, but they carry little ammo, so if you think these guys need a nerf, your wrong. At best they can kill 30-50 men in a battle with their guns, they suck at melee (melee rating of 6), and they are very slow. (Plus, they cannot fire while moving.) So no, Camel Artillery is not strong and fast, it is a support unit. I have no idea how they "very easily beat your artillry" (prehaps you cannons should have fired on them maybe?). Plus, these are the only units that Maratha can recruit that have a range of 220, they lack standard riflemen. You should play Martha before you want to nerf them.

As for the navy Johan, I like your idea with unlocking the ships of the line first. Makes India easier to invade earlier on, and much harder later on.

And as always, I ask for a guard unit for Martha, you could just use the Murgal Qizlbashi Infantry for the skins. They "look" elite, dispite having standard stats.

[littleleo]

I'm not sure I understand your rant against the hindoo musketeers, I just tested these guys out and their utter crap! With a moral of 5, and the fact that only front line fires, you have to be an idiot to lose to these guys. Granted, each of them is carrying a sword, but that only means your an idiot for not gunning these guys down in the first place.
And as always, I ask for a guard unit for Martha, you could just use the Murgal Qizlbashi Infantry for the skins. They "look" elite, dispite having standard stats.

Please stop consider the other opinion and the other player as peace of s... If we wrote what we wrote that we want the better for the mod we like. It's not just to criticise ! Please stop insult us ...

The musketeer have more moral than you say ... for example 3 units of them continued to fight while they are just 10 under my artillery fire and i must engage all my cavalry to beat them.
In fact they are very strong in close combat and they come very fast to hand to hand ! ...

So ... why they beat (in many games and systemic...) many European countries (in some of my game they conquered UK or west Indies or/and Louisiana or UP or Sweden !) ...

Léo

[Johan217]

So ... why they beat (in many games and systemic...) many European countries (in some of my game they conquered UK or west Indies or/and Louisiana or UP or Sweden !) ...

This may be due to other factors than just the unit stats. I think the Marathas are able to field large armies for a relatively lower cost than other nations. Also their campaign AI seems more agressive than other nations. I know I've been saying for some time now that I will revise their roster, but it's quite a bit of work and I'm running out of time. I'll try though.

And as always, I ask for a guard unit for Martha, you could just use the Murgal Qizlbashi Infantry for the skins. They "look" elite, dispite having standard stats.

The Bargir and Gardi Musketeers are intended as their elite units. But it's very possible that they don't work that way

And please, people, keep the discussion polite.

[Edax]

Please stop consider the other opinion and the other player as peace of s... If we wrote what we wrote that we want the better for the mod we like. It's not just to criticise ! Please stop insult us ...

The musketeer have more moral than you say ... for example 3 units of them continued to fight while they are just 10 under my artillery fire and i must engage all my cavalry to beat them.
In fact they are very strong in close combat and they come very fast to hand to hand ! ...

So ... why they beat (in many games and systemic...) many European countries (in some of my game they conquered UK or west Indies or/and Louisiana or UP or Sweden !) ...

Léo

I just saying I tested these guys out, and they ran from the battle so quickly (hindoo musketters) that I found it hard to beat any opponent. Their stats only seem to be slightly better then militia. And if these guys have strong melee, then don't get into melee. Line infantry in range can tear these guys to pieces. Riflemen can easily take them out. Artillry rarely causes a unit to rout (unless they suddenly lose a large number in a short period of time). They tend to weather it out unless engaged.
I agree with you on their AI, historically, Martha didn't kick Murgal's ass, the East India Company did. If you ever play as the Murgal's, you'll see why these lose. They barely have an army or any kind of income, dispite having most of India. Thats what makes Martha so unstoppable, simply nothing can stop them. (except maybe Mysore, which seems to be strong then the entire Murgal Empire)

P.S. I insult people who ask a unit to be nerfed when they don't use the proper tactics against them. Every unit has a weakness, a good general finds that weakness. Though, you could be right on the fact that the moral maybe off the campagine then as listed, I have yet to test those guys out yet in camp. (maybe it was cause they were inspired by their general, and thus fought on?) As always, i'm a bit bias in defending Martha. These lack attention in ETW, and thus are somewhat ignored...which is annoying. Nontheless, elephants are fun, and I want to keep Martha as playable as possible.

The Bargir and Gardi Musketeers are intended as their elite units. But it's very possible that they don't work that way

Problem is, you can't recruit them from the Capital Goverment building. They get this awesome castle, but it doesn't really grant any benfit other then pristege. (maybe make one recruitable at the Capital)

[Maratharox]

[QUOTE=Ltflak;6451916].I agree with you on their AI, historically, Martha didn't kick Murgal's ass, the East India Company did.

The Marathas did kick Mughal ass. They weakened the mughals completely, the Company only did the mopping up. See the wikipedia page, get your history right before saying somethings not historical.

P.S. they also kicked British, Dutch and Portugese ass. And they had a strong navy which held out against Europeans for a whole century. Only after 1761, they started losing.

[fidelspikes]

I second Maratharox. Please get your history straight . . its amusing how many schoolboys will talk trash about the Marathas of ETW just caus they dont expect ppl to b interested enough to defend them

[Khassaki]

Please stop consider the other opinion and the other player as peace of s... If we wrote what we wrote that we want the better for the mod we like. It's not just to criticise ! Please stop insult us ...

The musketeer have more moral than you say ... for example 3 units of them continued to fight while they are just 10 under my artillery fire and i must engage all my cavalry to beat them.
In fact they are very strong in close combat and they come very fast to hand to hand ! ...

So ... why they beat (in many games and systemic...) many European countries (in some of my game they conquered UK or west Indies or/and Louisiana or UP or Sweden !) ...

Léo

The hindoo musketeers are fine the way they are. Early game they do quite well, but later in the game the other European powers have far more upgrades and hindoo musketeers melt against their infantry. The only over rated troops in their army are the camel gunners and nomads. Camels have no advantage over Indian based cavalry which are fully familiar with both camels and elephants, while camels on the other hand are pretty useless outside a desert, so should get major negatives outside India and the middle east, plus they are too cheap so they get spammed. A little more expensive as they are with a numerical limit on their production would be a fix that worked for me.

Maratha is a very straight forward faction to run, and the AI manages it well, so it ends up very strong. It the player's fault for the most part because they are worth so much trade. Declare war on them early and blockade their trade routes and you won't see them in Europe unless they come through Persia.