Curia Hostilia: Consulate of Barba/Poplicola

[M D]

The new Praetor entered,

"Good morning Gentlemen... I bring with my new position, new laws. I propose an amendment to our laws. I shall unveil my proposed changes later."

[dragoon47]

The new consul stepped back into the Curia, finally haven stripped off his armor he seemed rather prim and proper, also waering what seemed like a new torc, his beard of course which is still well-kept. This wasn't the same Lucius Valerius as before however, he seemed...much more confident.

I propose moving most of our military to the West, preferably the province of Bruttium. Croton and its port would also allow us to transport the army back to Greece should they prove even more untrustworthy as is the stereotype. We must defend our shores from Carthage, Italy is the battleground of the past, not the future.

If we do make any offensive action in the near future it should be to cut off Carthage in Sicily. That can be accomplished by the taking of two ports...Caralis and Lilybaeum. This can be followed up by our main invasion force via the port of Messana, which would also cut off any members of the Carthaginian navy from circling around Sicily the long way.

The second option would be to build a fleet. Taking Messana would force them to take the short albeit open seas, allowing us to prey on their ships at will. Any comments on these suggestions senators?

I know we are still reeling from what Pallas did to this city, but we must start the planning now. Implementation can wait but the planning is essential.

[M D]

"Agreed, where would your first objective be?"

[dragoon47]

For the first offensive proposal, Caralis would be first, due to the ease of it being supplied from Rome itself which makes it easier on the navy and the fact that it threatens Carthage itself which would put their people in a panic to place troops in Africa rather than our real target. The second proposal has only one real objective and is judged by Carthaginian counterstrokes.

[M D]

"Who is Carthage allied to at this point in time?"

[dragoon47]

No one, it seems as though they only exist to destroy Rome and colonize Spain.

[Raglan]

Hang on a moment senators, but we are not currently at war with Carthage.

Our troops are tired after the campaigns in greece and the south, remmember that they are not slaves to be forced to fight continuously at your behast.

Why be agressive when we currently have no foes?

Senators, we need to allow those men to return to their families, and to rebuild Romes treasury and infrastructure.

[dragoon47]

Actually Aebutius, we have been at war with Carthage for quite a while, but our focus has been elsewhere towards more immediate threats.

[Ozy]

ooc: Techinically we are, it's the default RS diplomatic status when you start a new campaign. Check the map thread .
ic:

Senators, before you continue to speak of wars and sending troops to invade even more land, I have to ask you, have we not seen enough blood? Do the lives of all those who perished in Cannae, and Tarentum, and Apollonia mean nothing to you? I support war, colleagues, but a just war, a war that will bring us peace in the end. To invade Carthaginian territory will only send us to a war far more expensive than the one with Epirus was.

What have the Carthaginians done recently to us? If I must say, I cannot even remember why we started a war with them in the first place! I say we send diplomats to Carthage and call for new relationships between our people, ones that will end our war and bring trade and profit to all of us.

[dragoon47]

OOC: Thought we would try to take something in Sicily before the AI makes a crapload of stacks hehe.

IC:

Any attempt at peace would be appreciated. I was just proposing we be prudent is all my fellow consul. If we can gain peace from these peoples before any further confrontation it would be greatly helpful. Who else supports the motion?

[Ozy]

A messenger entered the Curia,

"Senators of our Republic, I bring news from the coast, from the port of Bari! A group of men from Macedon have entered Epirus, bearing the King's emblems, and express their desire to send people to Rome to open negotiations with Roma. If we allow them, their people would come here to deal directly with the Senate of Rome. Should we allow those Macedonians to enter our city and build an embassy?"

[M D]

"I do not see why not, they seem like Honorable people."

[Ozy]

The party of Macedonians enters the Senate of Rome...

Senators of the Mighty Roma! We have come here, to your land, to reach an agreement on the current situation across the Adriatic! As you know, Macedon is the largest power of the region, and as such, we believe it is important that we meddle to make sure our nations' are benefited from the new situation we have today.

Roma has gone very far, conquered Italy and Epirus, and killed that barbarian Pyrrhus. We command you for your success. However, Romans, Macedon knows that as of now, you position in the land is not well established, and the reason why those people stay under your rule is your mighty armies in Epirus. What we propose, now, is an ensurance, that Macedon will not interfere in the Roman Epirus. On the other hand, we seek to ensure that Rome will do the same in the lands outside of what once belonged to Pyrrhus.

In a few words, we propose this:

I) The King of Macedon shall ensure Rome that he shall not interfere in affairs inside of Roman Epirus, nor will Macedon march troops to Rome's territories.
II) Rome shall ensure that they will not expand any further outside of the lands that once belonged to Pyrrhus, and will rely on Macedon as a mediator in case they reach a conflict with the people outside of Roman Epirus.

I shall leave this for your discussion, Senators, and leave to the embassy we have established in Italy, we will eagerly await your response.

[Crozimodo]

Surely there is not a question of acceptance? We are assuring ourselves protection as well as a degree of support from a large faction. There is no need to expand east, least of all after the massive losses sustained due to Pyrrhus. As well as this we should seek to alleviate war with carthage as well,but if we must fight a war let it not be on two sides!

I support the motion for a peace envoy to be sent to Cathage, let this be a time of prosperity fellow senators!

[Ozy]

But what will we do if Rome builds alliances with the people outside of Epirus? Why should we have limited influence? If we wish to work with our neighbors then I see little reason for us to stop and have to use Macedon as a meddler between us and them! Rome is a free nation, and should not be limited by foreign powers!

[Raglan]

Senators, we must think carefully on what is best for Rome, and what it is we have been fighting for. Rome has warred, it has fought and many have died so that we may be safe.

We have suffered ordeal after ordeal to reach a position in which we have peaceful neighbours, and are able to prosper.

Rome is close to those goals. We have expanded in all directions, and have boarder lands which protect Rome, we have a neighbour, the only one in the east who is both powerful and close enough to challenge us, asking to make an accord, a pact of friendship.

And so if we accept this then we will only have the west to worry about, a foe that has thus far seemed uniterested in pursueing war despite the fact we have been at war with them for sometime. They have had great opitunities to attack us, and have not.

We very nearly have the peace, and wealth that Rome needs to prosper.

And so i am very tempted to say aye to the macedons offer.

And yet, and yet, should we tie ourselves down to their approaval? Should we be forced to allow them to dictate Roman policy in Greece?

No.

No that is not in Romes favour.

Rome must be free to act in a way that best suits her. She must never be tied down in her actions. And accepting this offer will force us at some point, whether sooner or later, into a position where macedonia wants one thing and Rome another.

I say that we make a counter offer, for Macedonia's friendship is very much in Rome's best interest at this time. But i say that we make an offer stateing that we will have peace and friendship, that we will not interfere in Macedonia, as long as they follow the same conditions we do.

Thus my counter proposal.

Treaty with Macedonia

1-The Senate of Rome will ensure that Rome does not interfere in Macedonia's domestic affairs, and the King of the Macedons will ensure the same likewise.

2-Rome will not interfere in Greece as long as she is not given due reason.

3-Macedonia will also not interfere in Greece, since either nation having a firm hold in Greece would be detremental to the other.

4-If either nation wishes to become involved in a war, they shall inform the other, who will not be expected to provide troops, unless they wish to.

5-If either nation wishes to become involved in Greece, unless defending from an attack, the other nation will have a veto over that involvement

This way, both nations are at liberty to defend themselves, but will not expand at the others expense. Neither nation will challenge the other in an area that both are interested in - Greece, but are able to expand as they wish in directions that won't effect the other.

[Tazgrent]

[Lucius rises]
"Tell me Senators, why should we bow to the authority of a Macedonian tyrant? I say no one should be the master of Roman affairs but ROME itself! I do not support this motion."

[Winter]

Senator Ovidius stands to speak. He hasn't done so in quite a while.

Senator Aebutius speaks sense. It is not reasonable nor right to assume freedom of action in Greece given our satellite position on the continent, but we must not allow ourselves to be dominated. This proposal achieves both goals well, and preserves a balance of power that we could exploit if necessary. We should adopt this motion.

[M D]

"Hear Hear! We must always err on the side of caution, and here.. I am satisfied that we are not being taken advantage of."

[Ozy]

The diplomats looked at each other carefully, some showing indignation, as they received news of what the Senate tought of their proposal.

"Δείτε πώς δρουν ... σαν να ήταν ισούται μας!" (Watch how they act...as if they were our equals!) whispered one of them to the ear of the leader of the party.

"Ήσυχος!" (Quiet!) responded the leader, who looked around hoping the Romans hadn't heard him. He then stepped forward, and walked back to the Curia.

"Senators of Roma! I see now that the King may have been a little missinformed about your people. You truly are a proud people, one that will not fall behind any of their neighbors. However, I want to clearify that the King himself does not wish to push Rome to become an alien nation in Greece, incomunicated from her neighbors. The King wishes to ensure that Roman influence to the East of the Adriatic will not begin to rise to a point were it will conflict Makedonia's interest, causing war between our lands.

Once that is said, I must comment that I find it strange that you ask to have equal rights on the Hellenic territories. What business does Rome have there, after all? You have conquered the kingdom that once belonged to a man who sought the Makedonian crown, but in all esence, you are not native to that land, the one I, the one Greeks, the one our King calls home.

Greece and Macedon have waged wars since ancient times, when Roma was but a small city state that strugled to rise from their Etruscan opresors, and then from their tyrants. For that, we must say that to be banned to do as we must in our land is quite inapropiate, to say the least. Would Rome accept such a deal from Macedon if we had conquered Tarentum and Epirus?

If a fairer deal is what you seek, then we can ammend the motion presented by one of the noble men in this Chamber. Let's modify it into this:

1-The Senate of Rome will ensure that Rome will not interfere in Macedonia's domestic affairs, and the King of the Macedons will ensure the same likewise.

2-Rome will avoid conflicts in Greece, seeking negotiations before beginning a war, knowing that they can count on Macedon as a mediator.

3-If either nation wishes to become involved in Greece, unless defending from an attack, the other nation will have a veto over that involvement.