The arms and equipment of Late Roman Clibanarii

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

Elendir, no, the Heliodorus reference is in a work of fiction and so represents not actual tactical doctrine but perceived reports ofPersian cataphracts in the Late Roman period. It exists alongside Roman historical writers as an example of the popular imagination. Having said that, the details are interesting!

Fiction? Yes, three plays finished and out at theatres for review (some positive feedback but no productions yet!) - 1 is Late Roman about Hypatia. I am slowly chipping away at a novel which culminates in the battle of Hadrianople and its aftermath. Hence some of the research above!

Gaiten, thanks for the advice and insight. Again, it only exists as a work of Roman fiction and so must be taken with a pinch of proverbial salt! It represents I think how literate Romans thought about the cataphracts more than describing their actual battlefield use!

[elendir]

it only exists as a work of Roman fiction and so must be taken with a pinch of proverbial salt! It represents I think how literate Romans thought about the cataphracts more than describing their actual battlefield use!

I agree that it doesn't have an historical foundation, but sometimes imagination is born out of reality.
I wonder whether there could be some situation where this kind of charge was possible, although I believe that without any other reference we have to relegate this weapon to the realm of fantasy

[Valentinian Victor]

Modern tests have proven that as incorrect. In an old Ancient Warfare magazine is an article about the Sassanian Noble Cavalry, wherein Heliodorus is cited, but commented as not correct. The author, Patryk Skupniewicz, is very versed in that history and kind of Eastern mounted warfare.

I doubt, that the main strategy of heavy lancer cavalry was to rely on the impact of their charge. If they were up to fight infantry, they would rather rode around the enemy formation probing for weak spots, take advantage of their mobility to attack suddenly flanks or rear.
In melee battles the knights pushed the kontos against the enemy footsoldier, as experiments show that is a great impact to bear (high position at the horse`s back and the up-to down lance push by a highly trained knight might impale two people at once).

The main task for the heavy lancer cavalry was to protect the horse archers against enemy heavy lancer cavalry and when the arrow storm of the horse archers disrupted the enemy formation to take advantage of the disordered ranks and attack so that the ranks got fatally split up.


The Sassanian called their clibinarii Asavaran.


Not exactly. "Grivpan" was an old form of armored neck protection (the Achaemenid heavy cavalry wore it) and the warriors wearing that were called "Grivpanvar", what the Greek made to "Grivpanvarios". You may see a certain similarity to "Clibanarios", what IMHO was a slang by Western troops taunting the enemy inside their "hot" gear

There is a school of thought that the Sasanids had several types of mounted troops, those whose riders and mounts were armoured and were armed with a long spear and whose tactics were to charge formed bodies of infantry (like the Parthian Cataphracts they were modelled on), other lesser armoured mainly bow armed cavalry who 'shower shot' at the halt and moved rapidily away from those approaching them, and light horse archers. I equate both Sasanid and Late Roman Clibanarii to their medieval counter-parts who would charge into combat, relying on both speed of charge and armour to save them.

[Gäiten]

The Sassanians fielded all cavalry types:
Heavy armoured lancers, heavy armoured horsearchers, heavy armoured composite horsearcher/lancers recruited among the big agnatic Clans.
Medium armoured lancers, medium armoured horsearchers, medium armoured composite horsearcher/lancers recruited among the petty nobles, among the big agnatic Clans, mercenaries and auxiliaries .
Light cavaly (horsearchers and mounted javelineers).

You have to consider that for the Sassanians the most serious threat were the powerful tribes of Central Asia (Nomad Chionitae, Kidarite Chionitae, Hephtalites, Turks). The combination of horsearchers and lancers were an extremely powerful, so the warfare executed here remained relatively unchanged for milleniums.

The Sassanians might have tried to use their clibinarii charge as primary tactic but stopped that soon because even clibanarii do not have real chances against well-ordered and trained infantry.

[Valentinian Victor]

I have scoured many other works now and apart from Heliodorus there are no real descriptions of Late Roman clibanarii of the detail described by those who I have already mentioned. Does anyone have descriptions and can quote in case I missed one or two?

[Gäiten]

Julian, or I, 37C-38A (30.15-28, pp. 54-5, Bidez).

You may find that in Dodgeon & Lieu: Roman Eastern Frontier and the Persian Wars 226-363, ch. 7.2.3.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

This is my understanding of the armor
cataphract:

Cilbanarii:

[juvenus]

Great pics MMFA!
I'm not an expert in those issues, but I'd say you got it right!
Though that cataphract may have been even less armoured...

[Valentinian Victor]

This is my understanding of the armor
cataphract:

Cilbanarii:

Ok, the first picture we know now to be incorrect, based on Phil Barker's interpretation that even he himself admits was his perception of what Late Roman Catafractarii/Clibanarii looked like. He has since admitted that the descriptions in Julian, Ammianus, Libanius and Claudian do not support his original view. The second picture is almost correct, except there is proof in two ancient sources for the horses armour to be either scale or mail, and the riders did not wear helmets, but had a metal face mask, read Ammianus' description of Constantius II arrival in Rome for a very good description.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I don't have Ammianus...
the first picture is sassanian, and the second romano-british

[ray243]

I don't have Ammianus...
the first picture is sassanian, and the second romano-british

You can find his works online.

[juvenus]

If you claim that something is incorrect then, at least, be so kind and explain why...
Unless that bothers you...

[Valentinian Victor]

If you claim that something is incorrect then, at least, be so kind and explain why...
Unless that bothers you...

If you care to examine my reply to the question I put up about the pictures and also examine the the content of this thread you should have the answers you require.

[Valentinian Victor]

In defence of Magistri Militum FlaviusAetius, I will state that the first picture is quite correctly not Late Roman as I first summised, but is based on a line drawing of a Sasanid Asavaran in Phil Barker's 'Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome'. This drawing is based on Phil's interpretation of rock carvings in Iran etc. The second picture I concede could represent the Catafractarii Ala left behind in Britain after Constantine III left, and which may have formed the basis of the Knights of King Arthur. They may well have abandoned the bow and the face mask and worn just a helmet instead of the mask.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

yes but I meant the horse armor. the cataphractii only had it on the chest and cilbanarii al the way around.

[Valentinian Victor]

yes but I meant the horse armor. the cataphractii only had it on the chest and cilbanarii al the way around.

Actually, that again is the fault of Phil Barker and 'The Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome'. Phil has since admitted that his interpretation of Catafractarii with armour on the horses chest only is wrong and he has since changed his view in that Catafractarii and Clibanarii were terms to describe the same type of heavily armoured rider and horse. All modern historians now admit that Clibanarii and Catafractarii are one and the same thing. Go back to the beginning of this thread to see my evidence.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

thanks for the clarification

[wulfgar610]

yes but I meant the horse armor. the cataphractii only had it on the chest and cilbanarii al the way around.

Phil's idea was of a half armored horse with a fully protected rider armed with bow and lance. Believing this to have become standard practice of the Sassanids and then copied by the Romans for their Clibanarii units. While for Catafractarii for Phil meant a fully armored horse and rider, armed purely with Lance.

Phil pictured the Sassanid cataphacts as the heavier shock cavalry that where supported by the "lighter" Clibanarii archery, who in turn charged after.

[Valentinian Victor]

Phil's idea was of a half armored horse with a fully protected rider armed with bow and lance. Believing this to have become standard practice of the Sassanids and then copied by the Romans for their Clibanarii units. While for Catafractarii for Phil meant a fully armored horse and rider, armed purely with Lance.

Phil pictured the Sassanid cataphacts as the heavier shock cavalry that where supported by the "lighter" Clibanarii archery, who in turn charged after.

Due to modern research and archeological finds etc Phil and others have changed their minds concerning both the arms and equipment of Late Roman Clibanarii/Catafractarii and also Late Roman infantry. The issue with the Sasanids is that the picture for the half-armoured horse pertains to a later period, at least a century after the time scale of this mod. The only real descriptions we have of Sasanid heavy cavalry are contained in Ammianus, Libanius and Julian where the riders are armed and armoured exactly like Late Roman Clibanarii/Catafractarii, but the horses are stated has having a covering of either textile or leather armour. I have yet to see a realistic artistic depiction of Late Roman Clibanarii/Catafractarii where they have no shield and are armed with both long spear/Contus and bow.

[Joar]

The second picture is almost correct, except there is proof in two ancient sources for the horses armour to be either scale or mail, and the riders did not wear helmets, but had a metal face mask, read Ammianus' description of Constantius II arrival in Rome for a very good description.

There's a depiction of this arrival ( by a modern artist ) somewhere. Can't find it now though.