[user]Belisarius[/user]
[user]Didz[/user]
Yes
No
Abstain
After my first preliminary look, I don't see much of a contribution from the D&D. That said, I am impressed with his posts in the TW part of the forum. Here are a few that stuck out to me.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...78#post6306978
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...37#post6275137
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...91#post6281491
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...73#post6278973
So far, I'm liking what I see, but more research is needed.
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Civitate,Ex Content Writer,Ex Curator, Ex Moderator
Proud patron of Jean=A=Luc
In Patronicum sub Celsius
Another nontraditional application. The thread starts are almost exclussive to ETW and involve historic details. The combined effect of the started posts does indeed greatly add to a better appreciation of the period involved in the ETW game. These historic threads have been consistently added over the course of several months and I do think that this is a sufficient contribution for the rank of citizen.
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Originally Posted by Hagar_the_Horrible
After more looking, I think that this member has contributed sufficiently to attain the rank of Citizen. His posts are almost always well informed and content rich and there is a negligible amount of Spam present. I think that this candidate will make an excellent addition to the Curia. So it's a yes from me.
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Civitate,Ex Content Writer,Ex Curator, Ex Moderator
Proud patron of Jean=A=Luc
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Read over some of his post and not sure it is enough for citizenship. I see a contribution but is it enough? I'm not convinced........ yet.
The way I was looking at the application was that the posts are better in quality, quantity, and over time than I would be considering for debate to meet the standards. My initial contribution was a series of short campaign guides to M2TW plus a smattering of debate posts. I think this exceeds my contribution. Does this equal the standards that we have set for the modding community -- probablly quite a bit short.
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Originally Posted by Hagar_the_Horrible
Well he isn't going for Artifex, he's going for Citizen. There isn't much of a mod contribution but it's not what were basing this application on. I believe his posts on the historical aspects of Empire Total War are content rich and are on a higher standard then most.
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Civitate,Ex Content Writer,Ex Curator, Ex Moderator
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In Patronicum sub Celsius
Agreed. I am just trying to tye this in for y2day since he seems to be trying to look at this as a modding application. I could be wrong though.
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Originally Posted by Hagar_the_Horrible
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Civitate,Ex Content Writer,Ex Curator, Ex Moderator
Proud patron of Jean=A=Luc
In Patronicum sub Celsius
Maybe since he posts in the TW side I was looking at it a little different than if he was in the d&d. I think his posts are great and seems to be a respectable member. The more i read the more I'm impressed. I have another day or two to research.
While I think when the community speaks of representation in the TW community, it is referring to interested modders, I don't have any intention of factoring a perceived lacking of any 'type' of candidate into my decision. At the same time I understand where LV is coming from with that statement, and don't take exception to it.
Having reviewed this candidate, I'm of the opinion that while his particular points of interest may have gradually become 'unorthodox' in Citizenship admittances, it isn't for lack of discernible contribution. The TW community that merely discusses the games is our foundation, and as such it is a massive menagerie of posters. This creates a mire, so to speak, in the general discussion sections, where everyone's tuppence about something is only so good as everyone else. The 'average' user in the TW sections will post a fair bit about their gameplay experiences, and it may parallel the length of D&D posts.
What we take from this though is the fact that there's no need for specialized knowledge. Opinion bandying is fine and an important facet of discussion, though I'd say most D&D Civitates stand out through the depth of their understanding. With a game it's hard to understand it much deeper than any other gamer, but there are exceptions. I'd count this as one of those exceptions, because he manages to post in not only a thoughtful manner, but also in reverence to the period history. His foundations of game discussion are therefore backed by an understanding of the time it seeks to represent, which gives him more cadence when it comes to the background for gameplay discussion.
House of Ward ~ Patron of Eothese, Mythic_Commodore, Wundai, & Saint Nicholas
Many months, maybe even years ago, when Artifex was first created, the considered opinion trended toward citivitates being people who debate in what is now the D&D forums and Artifex being for people who mod. At the time, they were too separate awards.
That was wrong, and I had concerns about it back then for precisely this reason. It leaves a big gaping hole in this site for those members who contribute to the TW sections, which are afterall, the primary reason for this sites existance.
Thankfully, today, we are not judging a member on whether he wants to be an artifex or a civitate. We judge them on them wanting to be a citizen, and look at their contribution, whereever it might be. The idea that a member has to be ringfenced into a particular category and can only be granted an all encompasssing award if he meets criteria for just one category is as absurd as it is constitutional. If a member comes to us with some debating skills, some modding work, some staff work, some AARs, some writing comp stuff and no infractions, I would happily make him a citizen of this site, because the quantum of his contribution, to the site, rather than to specific areas of it, is more than sufficient. What name he chooses to use afterward is utterly irrelevant. Personally, I think we should scrap artifex and civitate and just call all our citizens citizens. It might make it clearer that we reward contribution to TWC, not contribution to mods and debates.
In this members case, the reasons for voting yes are laid out perfectly well in my esteemed colleagues posts and I concur absolutely.
I wasn't sure at first but I've been reading through several dozens of his posts (learning quick a bit about especially the Napoleonic era in the process, actually) and combined with the reasons outlined above, I'm now convinced of this members merit. Augustus Lucifer and tBP have perfectly outlined what I would like to say, so I'll simply restrict myself to saying that he has offered a substantial contribution to the discussions in the TW areas of the site, and brings a lot of knowledge to this site, educating many fellow gamers in the process.
I think this is very admirable and I consider it to be on pretty much equal footing as most of the Civitates we see around here. Yes from me
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--- Mark 2:27
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Yeah, I think that's one of the key problems that comes up sometimes in both Citizenship and also the Large Awards. Some people are inclined to think that to be an 'Artifex', you need to have contributed a significant amount to the modding side of the site. This is entirely untrue, because we grant people Citizenship for overall contribution to the site, not to any particular area. Then if they want to label themselves the opposite of what we granted them Citizenship for, that's entirely their prerogative and is simply a reflection of where they feel they contribute, regardless of what the council feels at the time of passing. At my time of passing I would have had no chance passing on modding contributions, but now I think I could and were I to wear a badge it would be Artifex.
Now, the same problem comes up in our Large Awards. We have an award for debate, and one for modding as well as other TW contributions(though people often overlook the second), and another for being an admin, and another for being a member of staff. That's all well and good, but it leaves out a significant portion of the site when we try and classify distinctive and limited areas. What of the Games, Activities, and Chat? What of the AARs? What of discussion in the Curia on proposals and such, or exemplary duty on committees and in curial positions? What of contributions to the publications which aren't officially a part of 'staff'? What of any combination of the various portions for people who aren't heavily involved in only one?
This to me is where our Large Awards are far behind the curve. There's members who made significant contributions to staff but not enough for Novus, significant contributions to debate but not enough for Phalera, significant contribution to the TW side but not enough for Opifex, and significant contributions to other sections which aren't covered or counted. Sometimes a couple of these, sometimes all of them. Yet even though when you look at the overall breadth of contribution, and it surpasses the bar set for contribution to only one section of the site, there's nothing to give. You could contribute to every major area of the site a significant amount, but as long as you didn't specialize in one and do that much more there, you're out of luck. Doesn't that seem a bit... ridiculous?
House of Ward ~ Patron of Eothese, Mythic_Commodore, Wundai, & Saint Nicholas
Passed.