EDU-matic: Automatic unit balance/EDU generation system

[Aradan]

EDU-matic has been updated to version 1.3.

List of changes:

1. Fixed an error in the armour upgrade cost formula
2. Tweaked recruitment, armour upgrade and custom battle cost formulas.
3. Added an ammo modifier attribute to projectiles
4. Training now tied to unit formation
5. Impetuous ability (previously lacking) added as an yes/no option in UnitDefinitions
6. Frighten_foot/mount attribute added to weapons




EDU-matic Advanced:

An alternative version of the tool, called "EDU-matic Advanced" has also been developed. It's main difference to "Basic" is that it has a new ArmourDefinitions sheet where the user may separately define armour sets and upgrades as well as multiple model variations for every one of those (which include armour and shield, and their frequency in the model can also be specified), and the tool then makes all necessary calculations of average armour and shield values, mass, armour upgrade levels, costs, hit sounds and any other relevant attributes for those, plus it automatically assigns armour upgrade levels in case max number is not reached and difference between intended armour levels is >=5 (in order to 'circumvent' the hardcoded +7/3 bonus per upgrade). The Advanced version is intended for M2TW/KGDM, but it can of course work with RTW as well, where model upgrades are not allowed and model variations after the first are ignored.

An excerpt from the tool documentation for the Advanced version:

3. Defining Armour Models

This is done in the ArmourDefinitions sheet. Each row contains the data for an armour model: the type of armour for each bodypart, the armour material, the shield type and the shield material. Things are simple in RTW since each unit only has 1 model and there are no visual model upgrades. However M2TW allows multiple variations per model (we will call these variations collectively a 'model-set'), and each armour upgrade changes the model-set as well.

It's possible to group multiple model definitions together into a model-set, by defining multiple models one right below the other, putting the model-set's name in the first column cell of the first model and leaving the respective cells of the other ones blank. The 'Instances' cell holds the number of times each model/variation appears in a unit's model-set. Armour upgrades can have their own separate model-sets, which can be defined in the same way anywhere on the sheet. When defining model-sets make sure you have named only the first variation of your model-set (you will need to name it when you have just 1 variation as well) and that you have not forgotten to name any sets, as the tool will group all models between two named variations in a single model-set.

The sum of this is that a unit can now have 20% fully armoured guys with tower shields, 30% naked guys with no shields, 35% guys with leather armour and bucklers and 15% guys with some metal, some leather, some bronze, some scale and some steel parts with medium shields, all the same time (thanks to m2's ability for mutliple models per unit) and the unit stats will accurately reflect the average of all those people.
Plus, armour upgrades now don't necessarily mean that your unit's torso armour got a boost, but maybe just that the percentage of armoured men in the unit increased (and the one of unarmoured ones decreased) and therefore your unit is on average better equipped. This is all taken care of by the tool.





Both versions are included in the download.

As always, feedback is welcome.

[CaesarVincens]

Very nice, Aradan.

[fightermedic]

this looks like one epic tool to have
stunning work mate !

[fightermedic]

ok got 2 problems
every time i want to create a missle unit the file tells me:
Unit does not have a projectile type assigned.
but i definitively have one assingned.. bug maybe?
tried different types of projectiles, none works
but if i assign one not compatible to kingdoms it tells me that its the wrong one AND not assigned.. strange

2nd and minor issue:
i need to manually comment out the "unit info x y" line with a ; for every unit in the edu since kingdoms produces a ctd if those lines in the edu are not a comment
whats that line for anyway?

[Aradan]

1. I can't see any error in the code. Are you sure you have defined a name for the projectile in the "pri missile type" column?

2. Didn't know that, fixed now, the line will only be active for M2TW and not Kingdoms.

[fightermedic]

eeerm no i actually did not define one.. thanks for helping a noob
+rep (again )

[Kylan271]

Hmmm I feel noobish,but got the file,opened the WinRAR file and got 2 XLS files but what to do with them,as can't read them? Sorry but I need some pointers with big stick..heh.

[Aradan]

got 2 XLS files

One is the basic, simpler version, where armour upgrades are limited to torso armour upgrades and model variations are very slight (ie different looking version of essentially the same armour), and the other one is the advanced version (with features explained above and in the documentation). You pick only one of them, the one that fits your needs better.

but what to do with them,as can't read them? Sorry but I need some pointers with big stick..heh.

Can't read them as in "Excel won't open them"? Which version of Excel you have? I have tried these on both 03 and 07 and both worked fine.

[Kylan271]

Oh not have Exel,lol mine is via Open Office,so just tried then and can see,but says have 'macros' and has shut down somethings for security vs virus...so will see. I am looking now,and will see how it works then get back to you.


Ok updating,can see it now,beautiful even though the mass of data gives me nightmares...^_*

Some thoughts:

1. Skeletons need updating to include all the available ones here,ie EB,RB and S1 etc. I did not know how to assign lethality to skeleton,so handy to see data here.
2. Slings have bugged me for long time. Ammo wise you have to create a seperate model per ammo type to use,ie clay/lead/stone. Out of tool here,need some tutorial on allowing variance in ammo type for slingers akin to Archers with fire or normal.
3. Terrain effects per culture,hmm no heat scale and culture type listed only dwelling category,so what of mixed 'dwelling' faction? Do all say Greek units have to be assigned seperate terrains depending on their province?

[Aradan]

1. Skeletons need updating to include all the available ones here,ie EB,RB and S1 etc. I did not know how to assign lethality to skeleton,so handy to see data here.

That's for users to do, not me. I can't possibly download and test every existing skeleton in order to find it's 'leathality correction modifier', so users whose projects use skeletons not listed there will have to add respective entries.

2. Slings have bugged me for long time. Ammo wise you have to create a seperate model per ammo type to use,ie clay/lead/stone. Out of tool here,need some tutorial on allowing variance in ammo type for slingers akin to Archers with fire or normal.

In descr_projectile_new.txt you can define new projectiles, including stones, and each one can have it's own model. It's no big deal.

3. Terrain effects per culture,hmm no heat scale and culture type listed only dwelling category,so what of mixed 'dwelling' faction? Do all say Greek units have to be assigned seperate terrains depending on their province?

Not quite sure what you mean with the first sentence.

Dwelling is assigned on aper-unit basis, so for example Eipirotes Hoplitai could have a 'mountain' dwelling, while Athenaioi Hoplitai will have Plains or Coastal. It is a bit far-fetched in this example, as the dwelling category was mostly implemented to account for more extreme cases, eg desert tribes or mountain tribes etc, where the unit is a purely mountain-dwelling/desert-dwelling unit and gets a bonus because of familiarity with a certain type of terrain. But most units would generally not be tied to a certain terrain type 'purely' enough to be assigned anything else other than Plains (which serves as the default/no-bonus one currently).

[Kylan271]

OK about lethality and skeletons,I will check with respective creators how to assign-lethality?

There seems no heat/fatigue rating in data? I normaly assign it as same as sand modifier? The dwelling concept is a new design to me here,but appreciated,will look into it for use. By default I use RTW 'culture' values for heat/sand/snow/scrub/forest, which I have discovered.

Hmm projectile editing,again I have to look at this,thanks I was not sure.

[Aradan]

OK about lethality and skeletons,I will check with respective creators how to assign-lethality?

I'm not sure animators know how effective their skeleton is, tbh. It is not somehting that they can directly assign to a skeleton/animation, tests have to be made to find out. No harm in asking them though.

There seems no heat/fatigue rating in data? I normaly assign it as same as sand modifier? The dwelling concept is a new design to me here,but appreciated,will look into it for use. By default I use RTW 'culture' values for heat/sand/snow/scrub/forest, which I have discovered.

Heat is automatically assigned by the tool depending on the mass of the unit's armour and the mass-to-heat ratio defined in the CoreData (C34). I plan to introduce a heat modifier to armour material in 1.4 as well.

As for culture usage for terrain modifiers: There can be a barbarian heavy cavalry unit and a barbarian shunter/skirmisher unit, I think it would be wrong to give them the same terrain bonuses because they are both barbarian. terrain bonuses steam from unit specialties and familiarity with that terrain, imo.

[fightermedic]

ok i have got another problem
tried to create an elephant unit and while creating the data the debugger startet although your file told me there are no errors in my entries

im not really good at exel but looking at the relevant line in the debugger i think that the problem are empty entries for soildermass and horsemass
maybe its best if you have a look at the file yourself (sorry if i just did some noobish thing again and waste your time )

here is the file http://fileupload.filetac.com/file/e...9559685374d63d

[Aradan]

I'll have a look later tonight, if I get time, and let you know.

[Aradan]

Oversight in the code fixed and a couple formulas changed accordingly. Edited file attached.

Note that it is actually on version 1.3.3 now, which has a couple of improvements compared to the currently released one. I am planning to upgrade to 1.4 (with heat modifiers for armour -and maybe dwellings- implemented) before 'officially' updating the tool, but I figured you wanted a working file asap, that's why I'm only providing this version in this way.


Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

[fightermedic]

thanks a lot
your effort is highly appreciated

[Kylan271]

Oh I think dwelling is more apt if labelled 'habitat',just my thoughts. The heat modifiers for armour,I think a test base on most armoured unit,then see if too unbalanced or not,ie a Cataphract type? In descr_climates.txt gives max heat range of 4(desert),so have to consider this variable also.

Look forward to your updates. Work appreciated.

[Aradan]

Habitat... Sure, if it sounds better.

About heat mdf:

1. I'm adding one to dwelling/habitat, from -2 to +2.

2. How should that armour material stat-heat modifiers work? Would the different layers of armour all cumulatively contribute to heat, or only the external one? Should only the torso armour be taken into account, or every part? Should some combinations of materials have a smaller heat mdf than the sum of their parts (like, chainmail + underpadding is probably less hot than just chainmail). I'm open to suggestions.

[Kylan271]

We are constrained by the RTW system.

Considerations for heat are mounted and unmounted units. I just use basic now,heat +1 per 5 armour infantry and +1 per 10 if mounted,this is on a scale of 0 no armour to 18 cataphract & +5 shield. So max +5 inf/+3 mounted,with barbarians at +2 heat and deserts 4 heat,gives max 11/9 heat. As example of extreme heat range for me. The question I do not know is how heat rating affects play? Is it a measure of base time for fatigue or what? A time delay,either added or multiplied is my guess?

For armour heat,cloth over armour would reduce heat as I see the persians did. Padding is to prevent armour chaffing,but I think adds to heat as restrictive clothing so you sweat a lot. So clothing outside armour -/but anything worn under armour +. From experience heat affects the head more than torso-I work in 40-50C temps at work,lol(35-43C outside +5 inside temp). So my thinking is Head main,followed by torso,then leg&arms,say 3/2/1 ratio.

[Aradan]

Stat_heat affects the speed at which fatigue is depleted, along with the map's heat value. On heat_value 0, stat_heat is unimportant. On heat-value 4, it makes a huge difference. We ahd posted some old research we had done on FATW about this, let me find it...

EDIT: Search function at .Org currently doesn't work, so you'll have to take my word for it.


Thanks for the suggestions.