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Thread: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Victor's rights - France folded and Vichy was damn pliable for the Germans. You didn't see a Vichy Poland. At the end of WW2 the French were in no position to reoccupy their Asian colonies except with OK of the UK and US - who should have vetoed any return of colonial rule.


    I doubt the British would have seriously considered vetoing France out of their colonies. The post war government was not Vichy it was De Gaul and a new constitution. Though France did screw up, it is likely had they left Vietnam would have still gone communist.

    I think the only ones who were innocent were the ones who were non combatant and trying to avoid the fight. Unfortunately when the locals are being coerced by Vietminh and later Vietcong. Then when that happens it makes it harder for the French later the US to root out.



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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    There is no conceivable angle from which America would be the bad guys here.
    How about this angle: supporting the side that didn't want to hold a reunification referundum, despite otherwise being advocates for democracy, self-determination and all that.

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    There is no conceivable angle from which America would be the bad guys here.
    You're certainly not counting that revealing historical angle through which we see that...

    1. The US actively supported South Vietnam in its decision to scrap the plebiscite on reunification. They knew the crooks in SV would never win a democratic contest.

    2. The US government actually entered the war under a fabricated excuse (Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?).

    3. The US propped up a brutal regime that had zero support from the peasantry and the small Vietnamese middle class.

    It is shameful that there are people unwilling to admit that during the Cold War America was more than ready to prop up any corrupt/genocidal/authoritarian government as long as it was anti-Communist.
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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Gentleman View Post
    Hey, much as I am not France's greatest fan, what right does America have to tell them what they can and can't keep? Same with us and the Suez. None of their business.
    When you use US money, you ask US first when you do anything.

    About Suez, it was rather because France and Britain got scare and asked US's permission and support; if they did not ask, may be things would turn much favor to them.
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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    About Suez, it was rather because France and Britain got scare and asked US's permission and support; if they did not ask, may be things would turn much favor to them.
    I thought Suez was special because it Britain and France decided to act unilaterally without consulting the Americans, when America threatened to sell off its holdings of pounds sterling to destroy the British currency they had to humiliatingly withdraw? They didn't ask US permission beforehand, and when the US administration learned of if they came down on the UK with a vengeance.

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    That may have had something to do with it, but the Soviet threats of war and troop build up in Syria is probably the main reason

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pious Agnost View Post
    That may have had something to do with it, but the Soviet threats of war and troop build up in Syria is probably the main reason
    No, he's right. The American involvement in the Suez crisis was purely from a moral perspective, rather than any geo-political ramifications that may have resulted. And yes, they did threaten to destroy sterling.

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    There is no conceivable angle from which America would be the bad guys here.
    The fact that they bombarded and deforested large parts of Vietnam; sprayed chemical weapons over Vietnam; committed atrocities and supported a maniacal, autocratic regime which was actually worse than the opponent's might be, I don't know, viewed as a bit distasteful by some?
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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Obviously as godless atheists with no conception of the value of human life they deserved to be bombed to oblivion by people who know the fundamental sacrosanctity of human life.

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Rambo

    Seriously though, I don't realy believe in "good guys" in a war, so none for me.

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by cupoftea View Post
    Rambo

    Seriously though, I don't realy believe in "good guys" in a war, so none for me.
    WW2?

    I admit that that is an isolated example.

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    When you use US money, you ask US first when you do anything.

    About Suez, it was rather because France and Britain got scare and asked US's permission and support; if they did not ask, may be things would turn much favor to them.
    Well, then I think it is time USA took it's hat in it's hands and started begging for permissions from Europe, China, Japan and other big debt owners.

    Because you guys are running your country on their money.


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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    The USA, they came and helped out the south vietnamese

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    The USA, they came and helped out the south vietnamese
    Yep, the problem was that the US Foreign Policiy had built up the very problem requiring them to lend assistance in the first place.

    And after the mass invasion in 65 and the change from a vietnamese to an american war (of attrition), things deterioated (as in any counterinsurgency war not lead as such and with people not trained for it).

    It's not that the Communist Regime was graced with unwavering support (in fact, after they took power in the north, the first problem they had to conted with were agrarian uprisings by farmers opposed to collectivization), only while the North wasn't any more liberal than the south, at least they ran their show alot more efficient, as opposed to the corruption ridden south.

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    There is no conceivable angle from which America would be the bad guys here. The good guys were clearly America and South Vietnam, just like South Korea. The bad guys were North Vietnam and China, which supplied NV endlessly and in many occassions actually had several hundred thousand of the Chinese army fight on their side. It's through tactics that this that the US lost many soldiers, and the electorate back home got weak knees and decided to run.
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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by UCMENOMOR View Post
    The USA, they came and helped out the south vietnamese
    Using a fabricated incident.

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    It's the fault of the frenchman!
    They were not able to keep that place secure.

    But the main problem is colonisation itself.
    So colonists are evil!
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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    There is no conceivable angle from which America would be the bad guys here.
    I'm not sure this is a joke, but I can give a few. American military involvement was essentially a result of their desire to prevent free elections (agreed to by NK and the French at Geneva in 54) which would have united Vietnam under a single government, since they knew their guy (Diem, winner of the rigged electionin the South) would lose. A military intervention based on the premise of preventing the democratic reunification of a country seems like a bad thing.
    Also, US and South Vietnamese strategy was incredibly brutal, and including horrific bombing in the rest of Indo-China.
    Also, the main aspect of the war, particularly early on, was a liberation stugle by South Vietnamese peasants against the brutal regime. There's only one right side there. When you add in NK and China's involvement things become more complex, but that was always a small theatre of war compared to the war agianst south Vietnamese peasants untill the 70s.
    Last edited by Bovril; November 20, 2009 at 01:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizam89 View Post
    It's the fault of the frenchman!
    They were not able to keep that place secure.

    But the main problem is colonisation itself.
    So colonists are evil!
    In fact the problems started after the french left and the americans stepped in.

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    Default Re: Who were the good guys in the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    In the spirit of the WWI thread, same idea here.

    In war arent good guyies just agressors and defenders

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