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Thread: Syracuse: A Tale of 1000 Pikes - Update 8

  1. #1

    Default Syracuse: A Tale of 1000 Pikes - Update 8

    Lets start! - Part 1


    I'm going to try the Syracuse campaign.
    Settings are (as you can see) Hard campaign - because VH campaign is buggy - and Very Hard battles.
    Also, unit size is Large, and Fatigue is off for the AI. I also let the AI have its full bonuses. Landbridges are also on.
    The system is 2hp.
    Spoiler for Update 1 is all in here!


    I started by disbanding units. My army will probably feature slingers as the "hammer" and swarms of militia phalangites as the "anvil".

    Look at that force balance thing.
    Spoiler for Messana




    Some of the enemies go striaght for the pikes, while others try to get around the flank.

    You can see in the second image that the general died (he was in the first group to try and get around the right side, he got charged and died nearly instantly.).

    You can probably make out the slingers that are ready to shoot the enemy in their weapon side.



    On the left side, the heavy forces basically pushed through the pikes and made a mess before the sligners shot them off.

    However, in the middle, the lighter troops couldn't make much headway against the sarissas.







    Nice job by the slingers and archers. However, the general stole many kills.

    The phalangites either got kills off the lighter enemies, or stabbed routers in the back (if you're inside the pike formation and turn around ...)


    The first of many shipments of slaves, hopefully.



    Up to 3 family members now.



    Lets start clearing some of these guys ...

    Spoiler for Yay

    The general was attracted to my general, and the infantry to the pikes.



    Bit of a messup, shows why pikes are a little annoying. They didn't get into their formation, as a result, those heavy infantry are right in their face!

    Oh no! Luckily the slingers have something to say about that.





    Hehe.







    Now things get good.

    Spoiler for Liby

    I begin by trying to lure cavalry units away. Usually, the AI will use its general if it doesn't have other horsemen.

    Spoiler for Chase me!







    Bye bye General #1



    You can see what's happening.

    On the far left, two units of pikemen are unengaged, so I push them forward. There's one unit of slingers who will shoot the enemy off the middle two pikemen units.

    On my right, the Greek Hoplites (I got the mercs, thought they might be useful against the Generals) are in place to hold back some Liby Light Infantry.

    There's a unit of archers ready to clear the enemy off them, too.



    Elephant charge into the middle!



    Notice how the 12 elephants have turned into 2 routing ones. Pikes seem deadly against elephants.

    On the negative side, the right edge of the pike line is getting mobbed. However, there's a unit of archers and slingers behind my hoplites who can shoot those guys in the back.



    After a bit of shooting, I give them a good charge and they break. That's cleared the pikes!



    Now the garrison comes ...





    The general went straight for the pikes and broke them. Unfortunately for him, the hoplites broke HIM.



    Once again, the enemy is attacking the flank of my pike formation.

    Once again, the AI fails to notice that it is taking armor piercing missiles to the weapon side.





    Furthermore, these overhand hoplites are in Guard mode or something, so my pikemen can easily walk away, form up, and be fully prepared by the time the enemy reacts.

    All while the slingers are getting off more and more shots. Even with 2 hp, it's painful.



    Too painful, lol.





    Too many survivors, couldn't take the city by walk-in. Oh well.



    Spoiler for Libyaeum





    Clear the walls and have the general kill light troops.






    Slingers and infantry work together to kill the last troops.



    Victory!





    Poor slingers had all their kills stolen...




    How surprising! And another family member. Awesome.



    Time to clear some of these guys off my island ...


    Spoiler for No way

    Can't hide in a shield wall, I guess.



    Disappointment.




    Luckily I remembered that
    • Carthago is a large, well built up settlement.
    • The AI has mad bonuses, and a lot of its mad bonuses are tied to "faction_capability" with a specific building. In Carthago.
    • The AI likes to show off its good public order by taking garrisons out.


    Ta da! Time to take Carthago.

    Spoiler for Carthago

    Intercepted this guy, caught him between the two generals and killed him nearly at the very start of the battle.



    The AI and I moved troops back and forth. When the AI moved back, I shot it in the back.

    Very nice, especially since these armored guys are in shield wall. It keeps them packed close and slow.



    Same thing, he ran out, got caught, died.



    Killing a schiltrom with pikes.







    Oh yeah. That'll teach you. Didn't think that I would follow up on my threat to keep you off my island, eh?

    Wait a sec, is that ... ergh, I forgot a group back on my Sicily.

    Embarrassing.



    The enemy attempts a counterattack.


    Spoiler for Defending Carthago from Carthaginians

    Skirmishing, as always, comes down to stones and arrows in the back.





    Shooting infantry, taking elephant charges. All the same by now.





    The AI + shield wall + guard mode = easy shots.



    Look at those two units. They're really not doing much except being showered in stinging bullets.



    One good (overhand) phalanx deserves another (pike one) ...



    Last few units left ...





    Look at those slinger kills! Nice.







    The survivors ran for the ships, but I couldn't sink them, sadly.



    So THAT'S what those two assassins were doing.


    So, I looked at my income and came to the following conclusions.
    • I have cheap pikes
    • I have a lot of money
    • I can make many cheap pikes by building militia barracks everywhere
    • These cheap pikes are good for pinning enemies on, and can actually kill sometimes
    • Human wave tactics, with cheap pikes

    In Sicily, I'm starting to build said barracks, to begin spamming pikes. I also need an onager or two in order to assault Roman settlements (easier to take).

    Possibly even to get past Rome's garrison script, though I don't know if it'll take several units of onagers.


    Artillery, 5 turns away. Pikes will be spammed in the meanwhile.

    Time for a second stack to start biting Rome. I haet Romani. Very much hate. Stick them with pikes and shoot them with bullets, that works well enough.

    If anyone is wondering, actually the pikes are horrifically bad at killing anything that's heavy like the Libyan Spearmen or Civic Infantry.

    That said, slingers are horrifically good at killing them (even on 2hp) with the right positioning. Also, given that this is 1-turn, it isn't hard to constantly arrive to find the AI has less than a full stack. If you have many units of pikemen, the AI can't attack them all, so some are free to do horrible things like ... run behind and enemy and then sandwich them between pikes in the front and pikes at their back.

    No, the phalanx sandwich is actually better than the slinger trick, I think. However, it is very easy to pin enemies and shoot them from the side. Getting pikes in the right place to stick up people from behind is very complicated. It works better near the end, when you have some last holdouts and are out of ammo.

    Ideally, you want the enemy unit to be slightly into the "anvil" pikes, and then have your "hammer" group move very very close to the enemy's back. This way, no matter where it faces, the unit will have one units worth of pikes sticking in its back.

    And yes, I changed advice to "LOW" because apparently if you don't have it on, the scripts don't work. Which is odd, as I think other mods don't need that. Apparently, you have to CLICK for the garrison script to fire, as well. >___> I think?
    Last edited by Alavaria; January 26, 2014 at 10:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Boriak's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: We're (building) the Empire of Syracuse - with PIKES

    For very hard settings you have very little losses. Is this due to the 2hp system?

  3. #3

    Default Re: We're (building) the Empire of Syracuse - with PIKES

    Imagine you're stuck on a pike line. People are shooting you where your shield doesn't help.

    Generally, you can't get through the pikes before dying. For the heavy infantry, they're on shield wall and guard mode, so they're incapable of doing anything, it seems.

  4. #4
    TM Is Back's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: We're (building) the Empire of Syracuse - with PIKES

    No garrison script

  5. #5

    Default Re: We're (building) the Empire of Syracuse - with PIKES

    And without using onagers, either!

    If the AI hadn't left that group sitting outside Carthago, I would have needed to fend it off for several more turns before being able to guarantee a one-turn taking of the settlement.
    Last edited by Alavaria; November 11, 2009 at 10:46 AM.

  6. #6
    TM Is Back's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: We're (building) the Empire of Syracuse - with PIKES

    I don't like one turn taking. Better fight the script But it's your AAR

  7. #7

    Default Re: We're (building) the Empire of Syracuse - with PIKES

    Like it's really a problem... come on, we all know the wall towers have infinite ammo. As long as the player gets to assault, with ladders, it's no problem at all. I've killed no less than 2 full stacks before (one + reinforcement) down to 4 units or so using nothing but the wall towers and a speedy general.

    Whoever made the script only made it fire when the settlement was under siege, not when it was taken. I've seen campaigns where the emergency levy units spawned once the settlement was taken, and there isn't such an obvious way around that.

    Besides, I obviously just want to have fun abusing the AI here.
    Last edited by Alavaria; November 13, 2009 at 02:40 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: We're (building) the Empire of Syracuse - with PIKES

    Spoiler for Update 2 is in here!
    Update 2!




    Since we've got the upper hand, time to keep on attacking Carthage until the faction is wiped out.

    Well, not really, but since it has so many coastal provinces, it's the perfect time to stage a massive landgrab.

    Spoiler for Hadrumetum

    Spoiler for Wall-runners attacked by libyan javelins

    I let them fire all their ammo, since they aren't too painful when my men are well spread out over the walls, and at a significant height, as well

    Spoiler for Archers get revenge




    When the libyans turned to throw javelins, I got shots ar their back.

    It so happens that they turned to run in such a way that their weapon arm was open for shooting, as well.



    And the gate was taken. Easy!


    Spoiler for Useless Pikemen




    It seems that they can't be standing on top of another unit and form phalanx properly.

    Actually, what's happening is the general's bodyguard just has too much defense, and can walk through the pikes.


    Then there's weird bugs like this T___T


    Spoiler for Finishing off everyone




    Had the general fix everything.

    It's funny to see the two opposing generals duking it out in the middle of a forest of pikes.


    Spoiler for Details and Results






    An assassin, eh. There were two, and one of those died, seems the survivor is still messing around.



    You have got to be kidding me!!! He actually killed a faction leader? That should only have like a 1-in-100 chance or something.

    That AI got pretty lucky there.



    Pike time.


    Spoiler for Really Lucky


    Usually assassins find other assassins easy prey

    Not this tough guy, he got my fella killed instead.


    Spoiler for Checking Family Members






    Ergh, this isn't good. Luckily the AI probably can't get assassins over to my characters on Sicily.

    However, I still need generals to fight in Africa.

    Spoiler for Clearing Pirates




    They looked liable to clog up my straits.


    Spoiler for Die! Dieeee!!!




    Ok, that one is down.

    I'll make sure to have spies and assassins cover my African general. Just in case.


    Spoiler for Is this some kind of joke?




    Usually the AI is very timid, but it sends a single unit of militia into my lands?

    Scouting, perhaps? But it doesn't actually have any issues with the Fog of War ... I think.



    General! *grab*



    Why does a concubine give +1 Command? Is she a really good tactician in disguise?


    Spoiler for Onagers...



    Keep on grabbing all of Carthage's land. All for Syracuse!!

    Spoiler for Sabratha"

    Another half-year's work. Just gotta keep taking cities, is all.

    He took a year or so to arrive, since he had to come from Sicily.


    Spoiler for Clearing walls




    It's very odd to see the AI coming out of the walls.

    Amusing though.



    Heh.


    Spoiler for General > Pike




    You'd think they would skewer him since they're in perfect formation, but.

    No.

    He actually pushed the two units back quite a bit. Initially, they were flush with that alleyway there.





    Didn't help him much though, since my general got him in the back while he was stuck in pikes.





    And he then went on to get the last kill. Go new general!



    Spoiler for Details and Results






    ... Ok, now you've done it.

    Spoiler for Die stupid militia





    The idiot who thought to siege my settlement was executed.





    Hey, I got another general out of it (was expecting this MoTH, actually) so I guess it's not all bad.



    Our African force continues to grab everything they can.


    Spoiler for Lepcis Magna

    The AI came out again ...

    However, the slingers cut them down as easily as they would in the field, so I don't really get it.


    Spoiler for Militia Phalangites VS Citizen Militia



    Yes, he turned to ran and got jabbed in the back. Amusing.



    Pikes in mid-drop. That soldier died as though the pikes broke his skull.




    Ahaha, got them all.

    Spoiler for Results



    Good I got a town to grow.

    Pity I was hitting ENTER just as the results screen came up.


    Spoiler for Clearing More Pirates



    It's good experience, and I might as well have the ships doing something useful ...


    As before.

    That's about all the settlements here. After this we'll cover the northern coast of Africa.

    Spoiler for Cydaus

    Those hoplites were in a perfetly formed up shield wall + guard mode, but still, somehow, they ...



    Ok, that's just insulting. You can't just run through a phalanx like that.







    Spoiler for Details & Results





    Ok, NOW I'm clearing those guys out of my Sicily.


    Spoiler for OUT!!

    And THIS is why you should never ever fire an onager with troops in front of it unless they're REALLY in front of it.

    Five ranks in front is safe, but if you're say 10 ranks in front, you can be hit - I've actually had phalanx battles in front of onagers, and a firepot hit the enemy who was just in front of my own men.

    Spoiler for Denied :(




    I thought I had those spearmen nicely lined up to be shot, but those Libyans came up and started throwing javelins.

    Painful, but they didn't kill anyone (only one volley, and it's 2hp) so I got lucky.



    They proceeded to pin themselves to the pike line, and I started shooting up them AND the spearmen together.


    Spoiler for Left flank






    I was trying to get slingers lined up to clear my left side, but as you can see they were forced back by the enemy general.

    They simply ran back, waited for everyone to get stuck on the pikes, then flanked them and started shooting. Heh.



    Back in the center, you can see the enemy slingers have closed to melee without firing a single bullet. Odd.


    Spoiler for More Left Flank Hijinks






    Those spearmen, I don't know where they came from.

    I was rather surprised to see them attacking my slingers in melee, since I though the enemy had all their men pinned on stuff. Apparently the AI had decided to try and flank some more.

    Still, as you can see, once they realized they couldn't catch the slingers, they went and pinned themselves to the edge of the phalanx. Silly AI.





    And the enemy general finally got scared after the pikes and bullets. However, he was taken down as he ran away.


    Spoiler for Last Man ... Falling




    Lol, Schiltrom.


    Spoiler for Details



    Spoiler for Trouble in Africa




    That's Carthage's faction leader. He was alone when I moved north, but then suddenly he appeared with 6 units of mercs.

    Those might not look like a lot, but it's 6 units of ranged ... javelins and stuff. I don't have enough slingers to kill them from range, and my pikes would just get shot up to little purpose.



    Declared war on Rome. They need to be prevented from ever thinking of setting foot on Sicily unless they're citizens of the United Sicilian Alliance.


    Spoiler for Capua

    Onagers are good, they can knock holes in walls and destroy towers from a safe range.


    Spoiler for Killing Hastati at the Walls







    Not much to say, just get them pinned safely on the pikes, then have slingers come up and shoot them from behind.


    Spoiler for Killing Principe




    Very messy, because the general got involved. They chewed up pikemen by breaking into the formation when it's hard to reinforce.


    Spoiler for Killing General





    Yay for killing glowing Romans!




    Spoiler for Details & Results






    Capua is "depopulated". Specifically, everyone is "depopulated" into the sea.

    Take that!



    The next turn, we continue our blitz of Italy.

    Can't take Rome yet, probably not with just a unit of onagers. More importantly, the Romans will swarm us and siege the settlement - it's important we have MORE PIKES.


    Spoiler for Another Cannae?

    Having bad luck with onagers. At least they didn't kill any friendlies.



    Seperating and killing some velites.



    Hastati run for the exit. I shoot some bullets at their back.







    That failed pretty badly. However, we can still assault. As a plus, there's very few people to worry about!

    Spoiler for Cannae for Real
    Spoiler for Super Slingers





    I lost SO MANY MEN to those slingers. They simply refused to acknowledge people were stabbing them in the face and continued to shoot bullets point blank.

    It was so stupid, they killed a lot of the general's bodyguard by slinging while they were being stabbed.

    Spoiler for General and Pikes & Spears








    He took a lot to kill. Lost every one of his bodyguards, then ran to the square and after that fought for a good while before someone finally brought him down.



    Spoiler for Details & Results



    With more Romans "depopulated" into the ocean in a truly civilized manner ...


    More good men who can lead armies. Good.

    Spoiler for More Pirates? No, Romans!




    Rome isn't going to trouble me if I'm in their Italy, taking their bases.

    Still, doesn't hurt to be safe. I mean they got Hannibal away by going for Carthago. But it wouldn't work on me, as Sicily is where all my spam gets made.

    I mean trained.



    Continuing our march...

    Spoiler for Tarentum

    This is a tactic I like. Have something heavy in front (or expendible works as well) and have the pikemen such that anyone fighting with the front troops gets piked.

    It doesn't work. Quite worthless as you'll see - because the pikes just generally suck at killing. They're really pinning troops, I suppose.









    Spoiler for Details & Result




    See how few the pikemen killed *sigh* oh well.





    Ah, opps. That's a GREEK militia barracks. I can train pikemen here!

    Don't worry, only the Romans were "relocated" into the nearest large body of water. All the loyal greeks are free to grab a shield and sarissa and join the Alliance's forces.



    We're "advanced" at "dealing with" Romans.

    Or training or something.


    Ok, good - a field battle.

    Spoiler for Last bit of South Italy - Croton!



    Early skirmishing nets some kills for the general.



    The first group is dispatched easily, as you can see. Bye bye hastati.

    I wonder why the AI likes armies of Hastati+Velite+Vilgils

    Spoiler for The garrison arrives!





    The garrison is a unit each of Hastati and Principes.



    I m not sure - these guys were "charging" while slowly inching backwards from the pike line.

    I just shot them and kept a close eye - was wondering if they might suddenly think to pila the slingers.



    The light hastati can't penetrate the spear line. The Principe can, but they bugged out for some reason.



    Spoiler for Detail & Result



    You know the drill - into the ocean!!


    I'm thinking about letting you chose who should be the next target. Carthage is being stomped, and Rome will soon be taken (and everyone sent into the ocean).

    Who should get piked next?
    Last edited by Alavaria; November 23, 2009 at 11:45 PM.

  9. #9
    Magmaniac's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: We're (building) the Empire of Syracuse - with PIKES

    Take the other west med islands, then invade Iberia starting with the Carthaginian colonies there.
    Insatiable as the flame, I burn, and consume myself.

  10. #10

    Default Re: We're (building) the Empire of Syracuse - with PIKES

    Love the Syracusan hoplite, unfortunately you're not going to recruit them .
    Anyway I think you should head for the majestic wealth and beautiful women of Trapezus.


    I'm immortal! Unfortunately it wears off after 80 years..

  11. #11

    Default Re: We're (building) the Empire of Syracuse - with PIKES

    Spoiler for Update 3 is here
    Update 3


    After I took Croton in the last update, it CTDed as I was going to kill everyone.

    Spoiler for Second Time







    Spoiler for Third time is a charm







    Had to do it two more times. Finally figured out that if I left some enemy units alive and had all my men run away, I would "win" but my troops wouldn't automatically take the settlement.

    It worked, who cares.




    It was also very satisfying

    --------------------------

    Excerpts of a Pikeman (Standard Bearer)



    Under the command of Demetrios of Syracuse, the Alliance marched out to meet a large Roman force that had begun counter-attacking.

    Their hold on South Italy had been broken, and we had to ensure that it remained broken.

    Spoiler for Battle outside Cannae




    The battle started with the usual deployment, however while the Romans refused to come to us, reinforcement arrived from the town.






    Our general look the lead by attacking the usual Roman skirmishers. Though a great man, an almost total lack of cavalry means his own bodyguard must run the Romans from the field.






    Officers are "walking the line", checking that our formation has no walls. As I am carrying the banner of the Sicilian Alliance, I follow behind my unit's officer.

    In front of us, the light infantry are screening our advance from the javelins of the roman velites.




    Despite attempts by the slingers to draw the enemy into an attack, we were only able to isolate this unit of Roman militia. However, when they formed up in a large circle, the general ordered us to ignore them.

    Apparently once huddled together behind their shields, they are unlikely to break their formation.




    We begin advancing slowly, and the Roman host appears in disarray, for no particular reason.

    Perhaps they were uncertain about the wisdom about engaging us on such ground - not entirely level, but elevated in our favor.






    As the Romans attack, they head for our left flank.

    The order goes out and the officer and I retreat to the back of the unit as pikes are levelled.






    From behind the line, all that is audible is the sound of rocks bouncing off Roman helmets and pikes hitting Roman shields.

    However, their Hastati were unable to penetrate the line before they were stoned to death.




    By the cheers coming from unengaged portions of the line, our general was still out taking on enemy forces, unlike the cowardly Roman who was safely behind all his men.






    A unit of Principe approached the line and began breaching the spear line.

    Even without seeing, simply hearing the men in front scream "armor!" is enough to tell me that the heavy troops have arrived.






    Disaster struck. At first, I didn't understand what had happened. I actually thought that perhaps the line had been broken in a part.

    Our leader had mounted a furious charge into more skirmishers. Despite all the skills of his bodyguard - and himself - he died nearly instantly.

    Some captured Romans claimed that a velite had thrown a javelin at our general and knocked him off his horse. For a while we accepted this possibility, as our own men, could not see the general during this charge (we were facing the right side of the unit, whereas he rode on the left).

    However, extensive questioning of allied troops who were just behind the enemy velites at the time revealed that the brave Syracusean had fallen prey to the bane of many a horseman - rock or gully or hole in the ground. His horse having tripped, Demetrios was flung headfirst into the ground.






    However, we did not know this at the time, only that our commander was dead by some evil stroke of fortune.

    His second in command immediately realized that we had to press the Romans and push them from the field, or risk being overrun.



    Spoiler for Schiltroms





    The order was given for the line of advance. The officer and I made our way through the unit (completely unengaged as of yet) and checked that the formation was in order.

    Along the way, we paused to use our pikes against the Roman militia formations. They were completely helpless against the reach of a sarissa.




    With this, the Romans started fleeing the field. We were unable to catch the killers of our beloved general as they fled like frightened sheep.






    One unit, however, was too slow. While the Romans abandoned them, we took good care of the stragglers.


    Spoiler for Details



    After the battle, the men wanted to press on, make those Italians pay for our loss. However, without a leader, we would have to wait for one to arrive from High Command in Syracuse. We entered Cannae victorious but downcast.

    The next day, there was a loud cry in the barracks. "Come out! Come out!" Men snatched up their pikes and shields before running outside. Some remembered their helmets, others forgot everything but their weapon.

    In the courtyard, however, was no Roman attack, but a gathering of all the officers, who had met secretly in the night.

    Nymphodoros of Syracuse, who had accompanied Demetrios from High Command at the start of the Italic Landings, was also our commander's "heir apparent" even from the time he had become captain of his bodyguard. Sizing upon this opportunity, the officers announced to us that Nymphodoros was our new general, who would carry on the legacy of Demetrios. The bodyguard that he had commanded would continue to stay, in his service.

    There was also the usual paperwork, which was held aloft before the gathered soldiers. Apparently, though our general had been given the rank via field promotion several weeks before the fateful battle, there was no time for a bodyguard to be gathered for him, and no need perceived. It was, therefore, ironic and fitting that he "inherit" the bodyguard that he had been commanding up until then.




    This providence of the heavens was not missed by any of us, and immediately we began to march on Roma, to ensure that it was not lost on the Romans, either.

    Spoiler for Wow

    Spoiler for Carthage and Rome made peace

    News of a ceasefire trickled down from somewhere - a messenger or diplomat, perhaps.

    The men found it amusing - we were already taking ground from the both of them. Clearly they had not been fighting one another for several years now.

    Spoiler for I didn't kill these, not sure where they want afterwards

    Spoiler for These were near Capua, and I did not want to lose more generals

    Spoiler for African Army setting out



    Though we had siege equipment from High Command, it did not seem likely that we might be able to fight the Romans man to man.

    Having reached the walls of Roma, we settled down for a siege, wondering if we might perhaps be reinforced.




    The Romans were not foolish enough to afford us this possibility. Defenders began pouring out of the gates.

    Spoiler for Battle for Roma






    Two units of the famed Roman triarii rushed out upon our flanks. Unsure of how to take this, they were shot to death in short order. Our general then ran down the last routers.






    Rather than fight so close to the walls, we were ordered to move away. By doing do, we could present a better front and distance the Romans from their beloved city.

    Move away we did. We watched the approaching enemy with a mixture of feelings. But these were all swept away when we heard the next order.

    "Listen up men, you have to follow my orders very closely."

    The message was relayed down the front by officers.

    "Alright, you need to .. very carefully, mind .. run for it"

    "Sir? What?"


    Standing in front of the line, I could only guess that one of the officers riding with him was objecting to the idea of retreat.

    "Just do it. Now run! The Romans can't catch up."

    Spoiler for A few free kills










    So run we did. We had killed some of Rome's elite, and made our point. But it wasn't the time for an assault proper.


    Spoiler for Details



    We retreated into a nearby fort. The Romans drew up another army of levies and hastati to force us to ground.

    Our general received fairly precise orders from High Command as we formed up and prepared to march out to meet the Romans.
    • High Command to Nymphodoros. We congratulate you on your promotion. Our condolences on the loss of your father.

    I should mention that Nymphodoros had also been adopted by Demetrios several months prior, though the arrangements could no be finalized as we had been on the march. For whatever reason, this was kept between the two of them and their collective bodyguard. Anyway, the rest of the message:
    • The Alliance is disappointed at the news regarding Roma. Though your men showed admirable courage, the fact that they would be outnumbered by Rome's elite is understandable.

    There were some dissenting opinions. However, it was likely that our forces, weary from a battle, and then a hard march to Roma, would have crumbled under their attack.
    • You are hereby ordered to begin full-scale recruitment in all Italic provinces and settlements. As the Alliance's sole regent in the area, you are permitted to set up or requisition any and all facilities, manpower or materials you deem necessary for this purpose. However, you are also encouraged to take such areas as you may from the Romans.


    There was a brief silence. The new acting governor of all the Alliance's holdings in Italy then spoke.

    "Men, we have our mandate.
    Let us kill the Romans that we can, and then, a little later, we'll kill the Romans that we can't."


    Spoiler for Vigile, Hastati and Velite army


    There were many Romans to kill, that was for sure.
    Spoiler for State of the Alliance





    Only a few weeks later, the Alliance took council and unanimously declared all-out war on the Romans.

    Men were streaming up to the front from Tarentum and all of Sicily. There was word that a second general might arrive who would take command of a second army that would assist us in the taking of Roma.
    Last edited by Alavaria; December 01, 2009 at 05:37 PM.

  12. #12
    TM Is Back's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Syracuse: A Story of Pikes

    Go on

  13. #13

    Default Re: Syracuse: A Story of Pikes

    Cool posting, good screens and writing. I find though that on very hard Triarii tear through militia phalangites like poop through a goose. Also, they are as likely to route as a mountain. Heck all mighty, on very hard vigiles could put forth an impressive showing against militia phalangites.

  14. #14
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Syracuse: A Story of Pikes

    Rome didn't know what hit 'em. Good progress.



  15. #15

    Default Re: Syracuse: A Story of Pikes

    Quote Originally Posted by AchillesXX View Post
    I find though that on very hard Triarii tear through militia phalangites like poop through a goose. Also, they are as likely to route as a mountain. Heck all mighty, on very hard vigiles could put forth an impressive showing against militia phalangites.
    Yes, but not quite.

    Basically for melee troops, the AI's bonus only helps if they can actually ATTACK. Vigiles and Hastati have serious issues getting through a 4-deep phalanx - they basically can't do it head on. If there are two or three units of hastati concentrated together, their pila can disrupt the formation enough, though.

    Principe and Triarii are different, they can walk through pikes, but it takes a while. The enemy tends to use them on the flanks, and there are problems with clearing a line (takes a while with slingers because of 2hp) so the right side gets chewed up pretty bad sometimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scutarii View Post
    Rome didn't know what hit 'em. Good progress.
    Hehe. Those stacks that have elites or 10+ units of hastati worry me. When you get pila incoming with Romans on your pike line, it tends to break apart rather fast as they can get through even rather tiny gaps.

    That all said, pike troops are waay more powerful than they look, because of the ability to attack at a distance. Still, fighting 6 exp triarii/principes is just asking the men to die. If you have a second unit behind the first, you can hold the line very long (because the rear unit can pike while the front one might be swordfighting the Romans).
    Last edited by Alavaria; November 29, 2009 at 01:26 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Syracuse: A Story of Pikes

    Using a double line of pikes my preferred strategy when facing heavy troops like Romans. If you also put any unit you have covering the flanks in the second line, the Ai likes to run into the pikes straight on, allowing 1 pike unit to pin multiple units. Then just use the double pike line to ensure the pikes don't break (necessary when using militia pikes) and use your 'hidden' non pike flank units to destroy the enemy units on the flanks.

    And good point in response to Achilles. Seeing as the AI's bonuses are only morale + attack, pikes and missiles retain much of their value. You could try stacking two units of pikes on top of one another, it stops even heavy infantry dead, but its also a little gamey.



  17. #17

    Default Re: Syracuse: A Story of Pikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scutarii View Post
    You could try stacking two units of pikes on top of one another, it stops even heavy infantry dead, but its also a little gamey.
    I don't like using double stack. For one, the enemy's missile units have a really fun time with packed pikes. And then there's the fact you have to dedicate 2x the number of units/men unless you make the line thinner.

    Lastly though, I think triarii and such can still walk through. It only takes one or two lucky ones - once the front few pikemen pull out swords, it's all over. And then there's the "jumping horsemen" that get right into the formation. And unsurprisingly, I've had generals bodyguard rip up pikes as they get into melee range and the pikemen have a really crappy knife attack. That and their pike attack isn't exactly strong (at 8) for militia in the first place. It's so insulting to see generals walking through my pikes.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Syracuse: A Story of Pikes

    Spoiler for Update 4
    Update 4


    Following our general's lead, the army prepared to break though the enemy's encirclement - heading directly north for a settlement left open by their aggressive maneuver.

    North being right through the enemy's position was no coincidence, of course.




    Thanks to communications with High Command as they were, our backup arrived more quickly than we had expected. We had not been informed that the mentioned general had ALREADY been dispatched some time prior.

    In the end, we were only delayed about a month for the promised assistance. morale was high as men shouldered pikes and prepared to march against the Roman forces. It seemed that Nymphodoros and Epikydes were acquaintances all the way from officer training.

    With several newly raised pike units, our battle group would push first against the Romans. Epikydes, who had both Italian and Sicilian men, would offer support if necessary, otherwise he would guard against a grand encirclement by the two Roman forces.

    Our leaders' plan was to allow the Romans to merge their army, and then pound it with our artillery if they did not advance.
    Spoiler for Break to the North!


    Our "backup", fully half an army, lacking only missile troops. With the enemy outnumbered nearly twice over, odds were good for a prime Roman massacre.
    Spoiler for First Wave





    The Roman hastati (well, most of the other lines didn't exist anymore due to having died in the beginning of our Italian campaign) approached our lines, threw pila and charged.

    Our slingers were ready with their dreaded bullets.

    Spoiler for Killing a general







    On the flanks, the two Greeks baited out and cut down their Roman counterpart.

    It is always a cheery sight to see the enemy thrown onto the ground with multiple holes in them - a regular treat for men on the pike line.




    Even though the engineers say they can't shoot really at really close distances, sometimes machines misfire and drop firepots almost as far as you might throw a stone.

    This is a rather well known fact among pikemen, who don't move too far ahead of such engines. However, the Romans pressing against the line are just at this range. Sometimes we get lucky.
    Spoiler for More Romans!





    The second group of Romans arrived on the scene and started pressuring the flanks.

    The enemy at the pike wall was holding strong, but so were our men.
    Spoiler for Routing begins



    Men on both sides began to crack. The Romans' flank attackers were driven off in disarray, howver they bought enough time for their friends to crack the left edge of the pike line.

    Because slingers start on the left and work their way right, the newest troops tend to be on that end. However if left to long, they have no chance of holding off Romans that come around their flank.
    Spoiler for Battle Continues



    More Romans were killed our routed. Several units of pikes began to crumble as the enemy finally pushed through their spears. One or two outright broke.
    Spoiler for Breach!



    The Romans broke though in the very middle of the line. Uncommon - because the right flank is generally the most pressured, being furthest from the slinger flank.

    Still, they rushed through the hole but couldn't entirely clear it. And more slingers (two units) were standing just behind the pikes, and promptly began slinging away.



    Spoiler for Run Romans!


    Spoiler for Many kills








    Spoiler for Details



    Fresh with victory, we left our backup behind in favor of pressing quickly against the Romans and sheltering within their walls.
    Spoiler for Ariminum
    Spoiler for Onagering the Defenders









    The engineers broke the walls easily, then took potshots as the Romans with firepots.
    Spoiler for Piking Triarii





    There was a general rush into the walls via multiple entry holes that had been made. The surviving triarii were caught between two pike lines and squeezed to death.



    Spoiler for Into the Square!










    Pikemen ironically have issues with horsemen. You wouldn't think it, but horses can clear several rows of pikes, and land their rider (if not themselves) right into the mass of men who had their pikes levelled, instead of pointing upwards.

    Conventional spearmen, or use of slingers is necessary to save a compromised pike formation.





    Spoiler for Details & Results





    We dined well on Roman bread, while the fish did on Romans.

    However, we were by no means satisfied. If the Romans had to hold Rome, they could do so - we would reduce them into being a city-state. Eventually though, they would be crushed by the Alliance's sheer resource base and patience.
    Last edited by Alavaria; December 16, 2009 at 08:10 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Syracuse: A Story of Pikes

    Great AAR! I love the writing, lay-out and the many screens.

    Hopefully, you won't mind the low feedback


    I'm immortal! Unfortunately it wears off after 80 years..

  20. #20
    TM Is Back's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Syracuse: A Story of Pikes

    I like your tactics

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