Christianity and Atheism.

[Epirote]

Well I believe it is time this subject to have it's own thread so opinions can be exchanged.
Many discusion about religion end in this but it is hard to go in depth since that would be off topic.

Just to give a starting theme.

Atheist exist mostly in western societies not to say exclusively.

But you can open a different issue for discussion.

[LegionnaireX]

I think the point of this thread is a flame war.

[Epirote]

I think the point of this thread is a flame war.

You can make a flame war with any subject.
It depends in your intentions.

I just want to exchange views.

[LegionnaireX]

The only way for a devout Christian and a hard-liner atheist to exchange views is through insults, thats really the only way you can do it. I'm speaking from some experience. Besides, what views do you want to be exchanged? I believe in God and you don't or vice versa? Those are the only views you can exchange.

[Epirote]

The only way for a devout Christian and a hard-liner atheist to exchange views is through insults, thats really the only way you can do it. I'm speaking from some experience. Besides, what views do you want to be exchanged? I believe in God and you don't or vice versa? Those are the only views you can exchange.

Most people in western societies are indifferent of someone's beliefs even the one of their relatives.
If you go for trouble, trouble you will find.

[the Black Prince]

sorry legionnaire, but you're wrong

my flat consists of:
hardcore Christian Moderate
non practising Christian
Atheist Philosopher
Practicing Pagan Druidist


we've had many good long debates about religion, mainly me and lisa, (druid and atheist) ganging up on Dan (the Christian) while poor dave who isn't all that interested just nods and smiles... but dan defends himself well, and we're all good friends
we debate, we don't argue

the question isn't so much you don;t, or oyu do believe in god, but WHY
making people question their own gfaith (or whatever) helps them to better understand the deeper menaing behind it, and actually tends to strengthen their own beliefs.

[Epirote]

sorry legionnaire, but you're wrong

my flat consists of:
hardcore Christian Moderate
non practising Christian
Atheist Philosopher
Practicing Pagan Druidist

non practising Christian - That would be me.
Pagan Druidist - I am curious about this one.
hardcore Christian Moderate - Both hardcore and moderate????

[Siblesz]

Christianity and Atheism? By those lines, you're singling Christianity into an equation that is a lot broader than you give it credit. Why not "God vs. Atheism" instead?

[Last_Crusader]

The only way for a devout Christian and a hard-liner atheist to exchange views is through insults, thats really the only way you can do it. I'm speaking from some experience. Besides, what views do you want to be exchanged? I believe in God and you don't or vice versa? Those are the only views you can exchange.

Wrong. I think that, knowing through some experience, you'll find that I am a hard-liner atheist, and there is a very stongly theist member by the name of Lord Rahl on these forums. Well, I've settled into a respect for his beliefs, and I'm sure that when he sees this post he'll testify to the respect being mutual.

[Epirote]

Christianity and Atheism? By those lines, you're singling Christianity into an equation that is a lot broader than you give it credit. Why not "God vs. Atheism" instead?

Well you have the secular Christian societies with the biggest Atheist numbers.
It has nothing to do with existence of God or not.
Not the subject of this thread.

[Atheist Peace]

Of course it has to do with existance of god, thats all atheism is, a lack of belief in god and the main point of christianity is believing in god and all the other things that come with it.

[Epirote]

Of course it has to do with existance of god, thats all atheism is, a lack of belief in god and the main point of christianity is believing in god and all the other things that come with it.

Well it is not the point of this thread.
There is a specific thread for that.

I should have been more specific but the title would have been too long.
This title attracts more attention.
You must admit.

[Gray24]

I must weigh in. Even the most devout Atheist beleives in God. They just have rejected that belief that has been given to them either through birth or dogma. I think humas, as a whole have no right to try and "know" God as no one can, for he exists in the relam of the divine. Some people spend thier lives attempting to characterize God, and they fail as, logically, no one has come back from the dead and said, THIS is what he is. Even giving him a gender is a fool's errand. Why "must" he be a male? For all we know, it has no gender...Now I know this is flame worthy, but look at it like this...either one of us is right or.....

we are all wrong...

Furthermore, the big three forget one all-important thing...they are of the same father....A'bram.

[LegionnaireX]

Wrong. I think that, knowing through some experience, you'll find that I am a hard-liner atheist, and there is a very stongly theist member by the name of Lord Rahl on these forums. Well, I've settled into a respect for his beliefs, and I'm sure that when he sees this post he'll testify to the respect being mutual.

I understand that, but when a christian and an athiest debate "christianity vs. atheism" the debate normally doesn't run very well.

[Tom Paine]

I must weigh in. Even the most devout Atheist beleives in God. They just have rejected that belief that has been given to them either through birth or dogma. I think humas, as a whole have no right to try and "know" God as no one can, for he exists in the relam of the divine. Some people spend thier lives attempting to characterize God, and they fail as, logically, no one has come back from the dead and said, THIS is what he is. Even giving him a gender is a fool's errand. Why "must" he be a male? For all we know, it has no gender...Now I know this is flame worthy, but look at it like this...either one of us is right or.....

we are all wrong...

Furthermore, the big three forget one all-important thing...they are of the same father....A'bram.

I fear I must very strongly disagree here. I was an atheist before I knew about other alternatives, I have never even half-believed or prayed. In churches or other religious places I look at the architecture. I have no hollow spot or whatever, nor do I acknowledge the existence of God. I cannot see this argument, it simply makes absiolutely no sense to me per se; it is a strange theory that I absolutely cannot understand. What experience allows you to say we believe in God?

....Anyway, multiple of us can be right (according to Islam anyway).

[al-caid]

You are not according to whole islam, but only Averroes and his weird attempt to make a compromise with the clerus There is only one truth and question is how to write it in a normal language. That opens a question: could not the word "God" be defined as "universal truth" as it used to be in middle ages? Absolute reality, unperceivable in its boundless essence? Atheism is then either a religion of negating truth, non-truth (and then be it worship of lies or negative theology - which is a philosophical way in christianity as well!) or a latent form of scepticism, when the sceptic is satisfied with only partly knowledge.

[Tom Paine]

You are not according to whole islam, but only Averroes and his weird attempt to make a compromise with the clerus There is only one truth and question is how to write it in a normal language. That opens a question: could not the word "God" be defined as "universal truth" as it used to be in middle ages? Absolute reality, unperceivable in its boundless essence? Atheism is then either a religion of negating truth, non-truth (and then be it worship of lies or negative theology - which is a philosophical way in christianity as well!) or a latent form of scepticism, when the sceptic is satisfied with only partly knowledge.

The word God does not mean ultimate truth however, and I could believe in an ultimate truth (a nihilistic one certainly, but still ultimate). God means we must also believe in omnipotence and so on, which I cannot, absolutely cannot, accept on multiple grounds, logical, philosophical and moral. And that this being is enevolent is seriously stretching even the most faithful mind, surely, especially in the past few years?

[MaximiIian]

I'm an athiest. I don't like christianity, especially protestantism, but some of my best friends are christians. Weird, huh?

[al-caid]

Well, here it is. In english, I don't know ethymology of "God", in slovak it is "Boh", derived from indoaryan "bhaga" (grace). Christianity is based on jewish culture, and so we should define God by jewish term "jehajah aser ve'hajah" (being, which is), and here it does not talk about (omni)potence, but already (ethernally) realized existence. Ultimate existence, or truth, as these terms are compatible. Acting of judeochristian God is a natural act, it is a part of ethernal "plan of the universe". God is not going to change anything, he simply created it all; but to understand it, as well as the logic behind the "divine might", we must erase our perception of time first.

God as a sorcerer, as a warrior, as a force driving part of the nature, is an european pagan concept. Even if we claim God to rule/serve only a part of the world (the good, the faithful, untouched nature etc), or even react on change in the world, we are pagans. In judeochristian metaphysics, the force could be an angel (dh also natural force or matter) or human and changing can be only the whole world (assiah).

[Tom Paine]

Well, here it is. In english, I don't know ethymology of "God", in slovak it is "Boh", derived from indoaryan "bhaga" (grace). Christianity is based on jewish culture, and so we should define God by jewish term "jehajah aser ve'hajah" (being, which is), and here it does not talk about (omni)potence, but already (ethernally) realized existence. Ultimate existence, or truth, as these terms are compatible. Acting of judeochristian God is a natural act, it is a part of ethernal "plan of the universe". God is not going to change anything, he simply created it all; but to understand it, as well as the logic behind the "divine might", we must erase our perception of time first.

"Being, which is" does not mean eternal or ultimate truth, it is a statement of existence. otherwise we are all, as things that exist and able to say of ourselves that we are beings that are, we are all God. Belief in God is not natural otherwiuse Judaism would not have been predated by paganism and so on, for example.