Curia Hostilia: Consulate of Celsus and Barba

[Ozy]

He does us harm for as long as his men march on Italy and defy our control over the Peninsula. You just don't get it do you?! Our power relies on our rule over our neighbors, on our control on them! To allow an other Master for them to grow on the South is to open a chance for them to rise against us and join them! We should not let Phyrrus consolidate his position here! We must reach him and his men, defeat them and show everyone who are the sole leaders of Italy!

[KoS]

Senator Tarquinius slipped into the Curia, attempting to not bring attention to the fact that he was late. Flavius was crestfallen at his defeat in the praetorian election, but grateful that he was still in the Senate at all.

[CoolIdiot]

The newcomer Pullo had been watching the debate from the beginning become heated then positively flaming, he finally stood up and spoke, still unsure if he was allowed to at this point, holding no office.

Senators, hold your bloodlust! I say we should raise an army but keep them within our borders, show this King that we are the big dog on the Italian Peninsula, but we are not wild dogs, no! If he manages to unite the whole of the south against us then we must strike, but he will lose many men doing this, the cities of Cannae and Croton will not roll over without a fight, let us use our enemies against our enemies!

[Captain Blackadder]

Senator hold yourself. We need to strike before there armies can join I say we send an army South but wait to see what the Greek does with Croton if he fights them then we wait but if he makes overtures to them we must strike with all hast.

[Raglan]

He does us harm for as long as his men march on Italy and defy our control over the Peninsula. You just don't get it do you?! Our power relies on our rule over our neighbors, on our control on them! To allow an other Master for them to grow on the South is to open a chance for them to rise against us and join them! We should not let Phyrrus consolidate his position here! We must reach him and his men, defeat them and show everyone who are the sole leaders of Italy!

spoken like a true patrician, unable to bear the thought of someone not responding to your beck and call.

They are free men! They may ally with whoever they want, and should not have to be bullied by us. We should make them join with us as friends, not whiped curs that will turn if they get a chance.

Why send Romans to their deaths if we can get Cannae, and Croton to join with us as friends? Then if the Greek decides he doesn't like that, at least then our families will understand why you patricians have sent them to their deaths

[Ozy]

They are not free! They have sworn an allegiance to the Roman Republic, and I'll be struck by a lightning before I allow them to break their oath! The people of the South have rebelled, what makes you think they will not consider joining forces with Phyrrus? Even if they don't what makes you think that their numbers will have any impact at all on his powerful elephants and experienced Hoplites?

Listen to my words, Senators, these are troubled times to come, and we must decide to stand up and face our enemy or to retreat like cowards! Of those, our status as rulers of Italy, as Romans, is very clear: We need to strike! Destroy the enemy now!

[Raglan]

THEN WE SHOULD LOOK AT WHY THEY BROKE THOSE ALLIANCES!

It's in your words PATRICIAN, rulers, even now you think yourself better, simply because they have said no. You spoiled child. Because you think you have been slurred, men must die.

[-Aquila-]

If Rome's alliances work on the basis of waiting for our allies to break their oaths, then I do not want anything to do with this place! This corrupt way of thinking WILL make our allies rebel and turn on us! It is not their fault, we would have forced them into such position with our mistrust and overlording ways!

Why did the south rebel you ask, if it was to join Pyrrhus they would have undoubtedly done it already! No, it is because of our mistrust in them. Why do you act like we are masters of the World, we have done nothing to deserve that title and if we continue to act like a childish bully then we will never deserve it!

[Elendil of Númenor]

“Silence!” sprang up Consul Celsus finally. The House was bursting into chaos, a battle between Patricians and Plebeians. “Enough! Enough!I will not have this Curia turn into a battleground for Plebeians and Patricians! This, Senator Culleolus, has nothing to do with class. All it requires is sense!” he shouted at the man, tapping his temple.

“Those so-called Allies, were bound to Rome by a solemn oath! They vowed to serve Rome, that Rome will be there only master! But what do you say? Let them go, freely! You dare say they are free men to do as they will? Have you never heard of such things as oaths?
As a matter of fact, Senator Culleolus, why don't you go home and write a little letter inviting him and his army to seize Rome? After all, they are also free men, so we shouldn't be so cruel and evil to not allow them to do as they will on our land!” Celsus cried in a mocking voice. “Romans, have you lost your ancestors' blood? Do you no longer value dignity and honour? Do you stand idly by, while others break oaths made to us before the Gods?!”

Celsus paused for a second, breathing heavily. “I will see a division. We are going nowhere, and we need progress. Spring is coming and we need to act. So, those, who support preparing for war against Pyrrhus, stand on my left. Those, who would rather wait for Pyrrhus to attack Cannae and exhaust his men in the assault – if he goes to war against them at all – stand on my right. As for those, who want to sit lazily and do nothing -” he said with a sharp look at Culleolus, “- get out!”


(OoC: I'll make a vote.)

[Ozy]

ooc: whoops, didn't see your post elendil. Imagine this is above your post...


You insolent fools! How do you think they came to be our allies in the first place? WAR! We beat them and forced them into joining our league, and now that they see a chance to bring us down, they have taken it! A war will come to this land, a war that will test our dominion! Men will die, sooner or later! If we strike now, before they gain time to work their alligeances and organize, we can win this! Let us send troops to take Tarentum! I tell you, not responding to him will be seen as weakness, and that will cost us more than some of you think!

Do not judge me for worrying about losing our power, I'd rather act like a "child" than like a cowardly woman who hides in fear!

[Philos Sophos]

Senator Ulpianus, who also had been a bit late because of just arriving, gets to his seat and sits down, while listening to the debate. After listening for a while, he stands.

"Senators, I think this has been approved already that we need to strike now and strike hard against the Epirot king Phyrrus who says that he is in Italy to conquer the people from the savage hand of Romans. If we do not act now, it may even become true as a lie told many times starts to sound true. I say, that we drive the Greeks out of Italy now and show them who's the ruler of this piece of land in the world. I also believe, that we haven't drained the blood of our ancestors from ourselves, so we must make them proud and keep Rome free from tyranny."

[Elendil of Númenor]

"There we are!" said Celsus. "Thank you, Senator for those wise words. Now that majority has agreed on fighting Pyrrhus, let us decide how. What troops shall be ordered where, what forts shall be constructed, and who and when will take command."

OOC: We need to hurry, we haven't decided on anything and half of the week has already passed. The save should already need to be advanced... Who's responsible for the Quaestor's report?

[Stildawn]

The new Senator Manius Titus who so far had remained silent and nearly hidden in the back finally stood up..... His emence height bring much attention to him...

"Senators..... The Merchants of Roma would greatly appreciate the strengthening and securing of the southern lands... This would bring even greater stability and wealth to the Roman economy.... I will support this war... Objectives should include economic objectives such as southern ports or the destructions of enemy shipping...."

[Crozimodo]

OOC: Yumaseven is Quaestor I don't know if he even knows his duty as Quaestor... i'll ask him on his profile.

Edit: YtC's already done it if we don't get a reply by tomorrow night we may need to vote for a suffectus...

[Ozy]

"It is good to see that there are many wise men in this House among the new members of the Senate."

He nodded to Titus and Ulpianus, and proceeded,

"As for our strategy, we must go to Tarentum herself, strike in the head! To do this, and still keep our numbers up, I propose this strategy: What we will do would be gathering troops from Apulania and Capua and making Neapolis a rendezvous point. Once all the troops are there, we should move to the South West of the Meridional Appenines, and then taking to roads of the coast, which should take us to Terentum."

Barba then pulled a map from under his toga, showing he had clearly planned this from way before the debate started, and presented it in the Center of the House.



"This strategy would allow us to take many troops without losing men to the traitors in Cannae, who will certainly lose all hope once we defeat Pyrrhus and his army!"

[Raglan]

“Silence!” sprang up Consul Celsus finally. The House was bursting into chaos, a battle between Patricians and Plebeians. “Enough! Enough!I will not have this Curia turn into a battleground for Plebeians and Patricians! This, Senator Culleolus, has nothing to do with class. All it requires is sense!” he shouted at the man, tapping his temple.

“Those so-called Allies, were bound to Rome by a solemn oath! They vowed to serve Rome, that Rome will be there only master! But what do you say? Let them go, freely! You dare say they are free men to do as they will? Have you never heard of such things as oaths?
As a matter of fact, Senator Culleolus, why don't you go home and write a little letter inviting him and his army to seize Rome? After all, they are also free men, so we shouldn't be so cruel and evil to not allow them to do as they will on our land!” Celsus cried in a mocking voice. “Romans, have you lost your ancestors' blood? Do you no longer value dignity and honour? Do you stand idly by, while others break oaths made to us before the Gods?!”

Celsus paused for a second, breathing heavily. “I will see a division. We are going nowhere, and we need progress. Spring is coming and we need to act. So, those, who support preparing for war against Pyrrhus, stand on my left. Those, who would rather wait for Pyrrhus to attack Cannae and exhaust his men in the assault – if he goes to war against them at all – stand on my right. As for those, who want to sit lazily and do nothing -” he said with a sharp look at Culleolus, “- get out!”


(OoC: I'll make a vote.)

I am a senator just as much as you are, you have no right to tell me to get out. I do not suggest that we not defend ourselves, just that we look at why our so called faithful allies betray us.

Aulus stands with his back to the two Consuls and faces the rest of the chamber

Senators, It is in the Consuls words, we beat them like dogs, bully them into allying with us, and then act suprised when we discover that they are somewhat unwilling?

Are our Consuls such fools that they cannot see? What would we do fellow Romans? If we had been beaten, and forced into oaths we did not want, we would toe the line long enough to gather strength and then strike.

Cannae and Croton must be spoken to, they must be treated less as beaten dogs and more as allies, ALLIES it is in the word. Each of us here have friends that we rely on in the senate, do we treat those fellow senators as whipped curs? No we treat them as friends and earn their help. Make them WANT to help us, stand by us, rather than betray us if they can.

So why can the Consuls not see the sense in the same approach with our Southern allies?

I am no coward, i have fought in wars and served my call ups. I even nearly reached my 16 years! And i am not ignorant of the threat that the Greeks would hold if they came north, but have they come north?

Aulus makes a show of looking around

Well i don't see them, do you?

Then why must our Consuls be so determined to make foes, that don't yet need fighting? ARE THEY SO VAINGLORIOUS?

[Ozy]

We did not create these foes! They came for us, and we will answer! Now you propose that we send people to the rebels, see if they can be persuaded to turn to our side, but why would they do that? I will not come to them like a common barbarian, asking for the help of those who have stabbed us in the back! We shall destroy them, and Phyrrus!

[Crozimodo]

Festinius applauded and got to his feet,

Hear hear Senator Barba!

He look around at the house,

Senator Culleolus would lead us to believe that Phyrrus causes no slight by being on Italian soil! Answer me this senators if a farmer see a wolf on his land does he leave it and sleep oly to wake the next morning to find his chickens slaughtered? Or does he chase it off and if he gets the chance cuts it's throat! Culleolus tells us that this man who protects his livelihood, is vainglorious!!! If we leave Phyrrus we could one day turn around to see his Epirote troops on the shores marching on the free peoples and occupying them damaging our interests. But Culleolus would tell you that they have the right to be on Italy! What harm, he will say, do the armies of the Greeks do us just by arriving in our land? He will overlook their arms and motives and will flagrantly attempt to block any effort to interfere with them, would any Roman worthy of the name allow an enemy in his country? I think not!


You may not realise Culleolus the harm they do in the south, their diplomats spread word of the riches they will recieve from a foreign king if they ally with him, he will turn them against us. Do you not see the reasons for him not coming north? He is weaker than we are, but if we give him time rest assured Culleolus he will come for us and the free peoples may very well come with him.

We must strike hard at Phyrrus and remove him from our land. This will send a strong message out to all those who have ever thought of attempting to take our lands for their kings. Once Phyrrus is gone and Tarentum is ours then we will turn to our so called allies, if they do not surrender and accept our terms they will soon learn the cost of defying Rome.

Senators this is a war we must support to uphold Roman dignity and honour! I beg that you see that.

[Raglan]

Bibulus, i expected better than that from you.

You have been listening to this retoric to long, the south is NOT our lands, that is what you are forgetting. They are the lands of men who were our friends.

You say we must beat them into liking us? Tell me now, if i was to strike you in the face, would you like me? And if i was to continue striking you? It would not earn your friendship.

So why do you expect that to earn the friendship of Cannae? Of Croton?

Tarrentium is different, they have joined with the Greeks, not just talked. But why should those we have repeatedly beaten have any desire to be faithful?

Mark my words senators, if we continue to do this, sooner or later we will find a 'friend' who punches back.

If Consul, we are stronger, then what harm is there in regaining our 'friends' and letting the Greeks come north? Let us best him when he tries, not because we simply don't like him.

There are many i do not like, and i daresay there are many that do not like me. But has that caused you to be violent with me? or me with you?

Then why, when we simply scale the size up, should we become children who lash out NOT even because our toy has been taken, but because it MIGHT be taken?

[Ozy]

Senators, be quiet! We had already finished this discussion, and you yet continue to deviate our attention! The House has voted, and the great mayority decided to go South and confront Phyrrus! Now quit this discussion on topics already settled, I order that as a Consul!

As for your idea to negotiate with our former allies, I will not kneel down to those who have betrayed us. We do not need them, let it be them who come on their knees to us when they see the magnitude of their mistake!