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Thread: The Conflict In Colombia

  1. #1

    Default The Conflict In Colombia

    I was wondering... I have always been wondering; how do you end the civil-war in Colombia? Some people say the government is corrupt, and they probably are, and other people say the Guerrillas are just "killers" and then you got the drug business... its a mess. So how do you fix that country up?

    I also got another question; do you guys think the FARCs is as strong as how the Vietcong was?

    This are some options, I guess;

    A. Keep on negotiating with the Guerrillas for peace... but probably this won't be sucessful and it will just make the conflict and bloodshed last longer... And that is the problem; in a country that is suppose to be Democratic, in Colombia you can't have a legal Communist party or something like that because that party would be exterminated by another party etc etc, this is one of the reasons the Guerrillas can't negotiate... And as it stands right now, the Farc is so strong that the terms are on their hands... and that is not good for democracy...

    B. And this I think is the policy of the current president; to weaken the Guerrillas through military action to such an extent that they are force to the negotiating table. And this way the government would make the terms.

    C. Perhaps a little too much, but some people in Colombia think that the USA should sent troops to Colombia to fight the Guerrillas... like in Vietnam... but then, would not this cause just another Vietnam war... and you know how that ended... I wonder what would be the result of US intervention...

    D. Perhaps not a solution the government can give, but what about if the FARC grows strong enough to overthrow the government? hmmm

    What other solutions to this conflict can there be? A good thing to think about in this coflict is; Do the Guerrillas want to end the bloodshed?...
    Under the wing of Nihil - Under my claws; Farnan, Ummon, & Ecclesiastes.

    Human beings will be happier — not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie — but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That’s my utopia.
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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus The Inane
    I was wondering... I have always been wondering; how do you end the civil-war in Colombia? Some people say the government is corrupt, and they probably are, and other people say the Guerrillas are just "killers" and then you got the drug business... its a mess. So how do you fix that country up?

    I also got another question; do you guys think the FARCs is as strong as how the Vietcong was?

    This are some options, I guess;

    A. Keep on negotiating with the Guerrillas for peace... but probably this won't be sucessful and it will just make the conflict and bloodshed last longer... And that is the problem; in a country that is suppose to be Democratic, in Colombia you can't have a legal Communist party or something like that because that party would be exterminated by another party etc etc, this is one of the reasons the Guerrillas can't negotiate... And as it stands right now, the Farc is so strong that the terms are on their hands... and that is not good for democracy...

    B. And this I think is the policy of the current president; to weaken the Guerrillas through military action to such an extent that they are force to the negotiating table. And this way the government would make the terms.

    C. Perhaps a little too much, but some people in Colombia think that the USA should sent troops to Colombia to fight the Guerrillas... like in Vietnam... but then, would not this cause just another Vietnam war... and you know how that ended... I wonder what would be the result of US intervention...

    D. Perhaps not a solution the government can give, but what about if the FARC grows strong enough to overthrow the government? hmmm

    What other solutions to this conflict can there be? A good thing to think about in this coflict is; Do the Guerrillas want to end the bloodshed?...
    As long there is a corruption in a government, and someone actually making money, those kind of wars will never stop.I have a very good example of it.Russia novadays.We have been engaged with chechens for a long time now and i don't really see any progress made (no it's the not "poor quality" russian troops, we didn't make the same mistakes of first chechen war and sent a trained spetsnaz troops there.)And you know why? Because 1.Chechnia is a good arms sell for the russian government 2.It's an open passage for drug trafficing in to the country (alot of high polititions of russia somehow involved in it.) So as long we, or columbia, or any other nation will have a corrupted government and some gains from those kind of wars, they will simply never stop.

    There is a good saying in russian " A fish rottens from the head"
    Manstein16 This is especially for you and your bill.

  3. #3
    TheKwas's Avatar Civitate
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    Just about every option HAS been tried, from peaceful negoiation to military nearly open war, and neither produced results. The paramilitares of the right continued to terrorize the public they consider to be sympathetic with the FARC, and they continue to make millions of dollars of the drug trade, and FARC, pretty much did the same thing on a lesser scale. The only group I can really say I supported (ELN) is pretty much dead or merged with FARC. The sitituation doesn't look good. Just about every political group has lost it political flavour and focuses mainly on mantaining the drugtrade, which may ease up the open conflicts, but it gives the government an excuse to use it's "drug-fighting money" from America for political purposes, which again results in only more corruption.

    Right now, the only solution I can see that won't result in more corruption and open conflict, is the literal splitting of the country. Granting each area within the country to choose who they wish to be ruled by and allowing the FARC to become a legitlament force in non-violent politics.
    1) The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
    2) The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
    3) The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
    4) The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
    5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
    6) Therefore, God does not exist.


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  4. #4

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    So pretty much the conflict will never end? That is the feeling I get.

    As long there is a corruption in a government, and someone actually making money, those kind of wars will never stop.I have a very good example of it.Russia novadays.We have been engaged with chechens for a long time now and i don't really see any progress made (no it's the not "poor quality" russian troops, we didn't make the same mistakes of first chechen war and sent a trained spetsnaz troops there.)And you know why? Because 1.Chechnia is a good arms sell for the russian government 2.It's an open passage for drug trafficing in to the country (alot of high polititions of russia somehow involved in it.) So as long we, or columbia, or any other nation will have a corrupted government and some gains from those kind of wars, they will simply never stop.
    Yes, but how do you end corruption in the government? Is the answer as radical as somehow making the government, senators, president, etc etc, lose the right to hold private property? Atleast for a period of time, lets say, ten years... ofcourse this idea will cause many problems but it might take away corruption...

    But the real solotion that would bring peace, it seems, is that the entire government be taken away, and a new one created... in other words, that the FARC takes over the country?

    The only group I can really say I supported (ELN) is pretty much dead or merged with FARC
    What makes you think that? Last time I check they were still around. Do you have any useful links about this?

    Just about every option HAS been tried,
    What about if option B is tried but this time to the death? And with the help of a foreign army? Ofcourse the casualties of such plan would be huge, but it might end the war...

    Right now, the only solution I can see that won't result in more corruption and open conflict, is the literal splitting of the country. Granting each area within the country to choose who they wish to be ruled by and allowing the FARC to become a legitlament force in non-violent politics.
    Interesting idea. So one side would become Communist (Farc side) and the other remain a Republic? Will not the republic be the same corrupted government though? And I don't see the government splitting the country and given half of it to the FARC. And will the UN accept the new creation of a country which is control by a "terrorist group"?

    hmmmmmmm
    Under the wing of Nihil - Under my claws; Farnan, Ummon, & Ecclesiastes.

    Human beings will be happier — not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie — but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That’s my utopia.
    Kurt Vonnegut

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    What makes you think that? Last time I check they were still around. Do you have any useful links about this?
    Link

    I think offically the ELN is still around, but it's only a shadow of it's former self and has become far to involved in the Drug Trade in order to survive (where they used to be the only rural group not to be involved in the Trade).

    Personally, I think the country needs a new M-19 that can be involved in politics and at the same time have a urban connection and support group. The other groups (FARC, ELN, EPA) are all disconnected from the cities, which should be where they gain the most support.

    What about if option B is tried but this time to the death? And with the help of a foreign army? Ofcourse the casualties of such plan would be huge, but it might end the war...
    Highly doubtful, has it has been tried with plenty of American funding. Having an actual foreign army do Colombia's dirty work will most likely only get the citizens more ****** off at their government and cause more upheaval. The ELN and (to a lesser extent) FARC already have taken strong stances against foreign intervention, such a move will only into their hands I think.

    You can't think of guerilla wars as straight forwards wars with numbers on both sides and a fight to the death. Guerilla warfare relies on local support and public opinion, and that is where the real battles take place, and you can see that in the success of the hugely popular Zapatista Movement in Mexico, and to a lesser extent, the success of the Cuban Guerillas. Even the ELN was once reduced to a mere 12 some members during it's history (1970s?), but due to it's image as being the sole group walking on moral high ground it quickly regained it's former strength and some more.

    Interesting idea. So one side would become Communist (Farc side) and the other remain a Republic? Will not the republic be the same corrupted government though? And I don't see the government splitting the country and given half of it to the FARC. And will the UN accept the new creation of a country which is control by a "terrorist group"?
    It most likely be as simple as having two sides (the whole issue is an anarchist conception of autonomy, which can be explained for hours) but that's the main jist of it. Basicly the country goes under a decentraliztion period and reforms how it sees fit. It's a very unlikely solution due to the government refusing to give up half it's land despite democracy (as any government is relentant to give up power). And quite frankly the UN won't have a choice in the matter, it's democracy at it's roots, It's not up to the UN to choose other people's government. And if the UN accepts other terrorist nations like Russia, Turkmenistan, Iran, China, and even America, it has no legit reason to deny a FARC or Colombian leftist country.
    1) The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
    2) The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
    3) The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
    4) The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
    5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
    6) Therefore, God does not exist.


    Garbarsardar's love child, and the only child he loves. ^-^

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    The censor doesn't like "P i s s e d"?
    1) The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
    2) The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
    3) The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
    4) The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
    5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
    6) Therefore, God does not exist.


    Garbarsardar's love child, and the only child he loves. ^-^

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKwas
    The censor doesn't like "P i s s e d"?
    You better be careful TheKwas.Admins don't like double posting on this forums, i had problems of my own.As to what to do with the corruption.Unless a country changes their fundamental rights and constitution, i don't think the corruption will go away, as in countries like russia, or columbia, a fundamental rule of the wolfs apply "you eat what you catch".So the polititions try to catch as much wealth as possible.Also it's hard for a new goverment to stay democratic if the old one wasn't because there are "non-political" people, which are extremely powerfull, always influence them, by money, violence,etc.
    Manstein16 This is especially for you and your bill.

  8. #8

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    Interesting website you gave me, lots of pictures in it too, thanks for that.

    You can't think of guerilla wars as straight forwards wars with numbers on both sides and a fight to the death. Guerilla warfare relies on local support and public opinion, and that is where the real battles take place, and you can see that in the success of the hugely popular Zapatista Movement in Mexico, and to a lesser extent, the success of the Cuban Guerillas. Even the ELN was once reduced to a mere 12 some members during it's history (1970s?), but due to it's image as being the sole group walking on moral high ground it quickly regained it's former strength and some more.
    I'm not sure about that, I mean, I don't think that many people like the Guerrillas, they view them as thiefs, atleast in Bogota (I guess), and I mean, doing masacres doesn't really help them gain support... I guess the guerrillas must be missing that part or something...
    Under the wing of Nihil - Under my claws; Farnan, Ummon, & Ecclesiastes.

    Human beings will be happier — not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie — but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That’s my utopia.
    Kurt Vonnegut

  9. #9
    TheKwas's Avatar Civitate
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    Most people don't like the Guerillas OR the government, so their support for either is slim. If the government pulls a move like bringing in foriegn armies into the country, you can rest assured that there's going to be a public backlash, as nobody likes imperialistic involvement (because, let's face it, you're not going to find a foriegn army willing to do this work unless they gain somehow from it). I'm unsure of the sitiuation in Bogota, but you must realize that none of the modern groups are based in Urban areas (the M-19 was the last group that I know of that had a big Urban support base), and the mere fact that the FARC has survived this long through several praticely open civil wars indictates that they do have a support group of some sort.

    As the old Mao quote goes "The guerrilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea". In order for the guerillas to operate effectively, they need the support or the apathy/uncertainity of the people. Without it, they are merely a standing army and not guerillas.
    Last edited by God-Emperor of Mankind; January 27, 2013 at 06:10 PM.
    1) The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
    2) The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
    3) The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
    4) The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
    5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
    6) Therefore, God does not exist.


    Garbarsardar's love child, and the only child he loves. ^-^

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