OFFICIAL: Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[MorganH.]

Thanks Dartanianx
All units stats will be updated and redone for the most part,so im sure TAR II will be to your liking!

Regards

[Tango12345]

Please remove all fire by rank ability it was not used in the American Revolution.

Since it was a common tactic both before and after the revolution, it should stay. (That and the fact that the new Darthmod AI TAR II will use requires FBR to make it truly epic).

MorganH dealt with the rest of your post I believe

[MorganH.]

Thank you mate !

[Dartanianx]

Since it was a common tactic both before and after the revolution, it should stay. (That and the fact that the new Darthmod AI TAR II will use requires FBR to make it truly epic).

MorganH dealt with the rest of your post I believe

Perhaps it was used in Europe but I have never ever heard of three rank “Fire by rank” being used in the American Revolution. Perhaps some historians will give advice on this. Any Re-enactments and movies I have seen are always rank fire like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ZgTD60PhA&feature=related
Apart from anything else when its used the battles are over in the blink of an eye with it because the rate of fire is so devastating.

[MorganH.]

I will ask our TAR Historian to shed some more light on this soon Dartanianx,but its also ''just'' a ''game'' for which we are using the DMUC BAI on the Battlefields.
So compromises will have to be made to get the best gameplay results!

[hip63]

Perhaps it was used in Europe but I have never ever heard of three rank “Fire by rank” being used in the American Revolution. Perhaps some historians will give advice on this. Any Re-enactments and movies I have seen are always rank fire like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ZgTD60PhA&feature=related
Apart from anything else when its used the battles are over in the blink of an eye with it because the rate of fire is so devastating.

As Morgan said, there some things that will remain as it is just a game after all. If we did pull it, you will hear many more complaining about that, plus we have disabled volley fire (because it so borked) and we don't want to remove features that actually work. That being said, TAR 2.0 is massive upgrade of battle mechanics (courtesy of DM) so I think you will have a different experience in 2.0 battles.

However, once TAR 2.0 is released, feel free to make a submod to remove or change whatever you like.

hip63

[Tango12345]

disabled volley fire

??
Do you mean fire and advance by any chance hip?

FBR is volley fire

[hip63]

sorry my bad, you are correct

at work ATM so ya know....

hip63

[Tango12345]

No worries Hip!

[Newman55f9]

Morgan asked me to chime in on the subject and I am happy to provide my impressions.

I actually remember addressing this back in the old mod, but it would take a while to find it.

There are a few important considerations:

1. Total War Empire is a game. It is a fun game, but when it comes to the way troops move around on the field, load their muskets, etc it really is not that accurate and I doubt it could be made accurate by a mod alone. It is close enough to be fun for me.

2. There could be any number of game related issues that justify going what goes best with the game, because trying to make it more accurate could have forseen and unforseen negative effects. For example, Toon innitally gave his units something like 100 rounds of ammunition and better overall accuracy than vanilla. The game gives 15-30 I believe. I innitially dropped it to 60 rounds in my game because that is what men were supposed to carry in the British army in the field. Because I play Vanilla campaigns a lot this set my TAR units against non-TAR units often. I found after 1.4 or 1.5 that the opposing army was not shooting it out much. When I reduced the rounds and accuracy to vanilla game standards I got more firefights. I suspect part of my melee bug issue was the AI always determined it would lose in firefight so it charged more.

Now to history:

Prior to General Howe taking command the British army (battalian or hat companies) generally fought in close order (so close elbows touch) and three ranks. At Breed's Hill (Battle of Bunker Hill) this amounted to the rebels almost shooting at a human brick wall (a target rich environment). They took about 50% casulties, the highest in the war.

When Howe assumed command late 1775 or early 1776 he issued orders that from that point forward even battalian companies would adopt certain light infantry tactics. The standard line formation was open order in two ranks. Open order amounts to one arms length between men. This had the following advantages:

1. Now the enemy is shooting at a picket fence instead of a brick wall and is not as easy to hit;
2. Enemy terrain was often rough and it was easier to maintain a coherent line when there was more space between the men (trees, rocks, etc, were easier to walk around);
3. It made it easier to take cover when available (The British didn't win an empire by acting like they are portrayed in American movies);(Speaking of which, at Camden I believe the British were at extended order (two arm's length) because they were so outnumbered and they needed the distance to match the frontage of the rebel lines). That wouldn't have looked as cool as the way they portayed it in the "Patriot" though, right? I look at the "Patriot" the way some people look at "Star Wars," cool, fun, but not really actual history. But I digress...

normally there were two distinct disadvantages to open order and less than three ranks:

1. In an open field with good ground it is harder to keep a well dressed line in open order as the men are not physically touching each other;
2. The men are more vulnerable to cavalry attacks.

This last point is critical. In ETW there generally are a lot of cavalry. If Howe had been facing signifcant cavalry attacks he might not have gone to two ranks at all although men can easily go back and forth from close to open order.

I wish the game would have buttons to go from 1 to 2 to 3 lines, but it does not, although it does allow the player to do the same manually and I often use that function in battles. If someone doesn't want their men firing in three ranks they can use the controls to go to two lines.

In regard to firing:

Officer's could direct fire according to the tactical situation. I really wished the game allowed a player more control there, but it does not. For example steet firing would be really useful for battles in towns, but it is not available. My biggest lament against the game's controls is you can't order troops to march oblique (something like an advance at a 45 degree angle accomplished by putting one foot in front of the other foot instead of directly forward during an advance).

I think there are documented incidents of the British firing in 2 and 3 ranks during the war, as well as general volleys, street firing, firing at will and firing by section.

Perhaps the most used tactic in an open field was firing by section, either by two regimental divisions or by company. "Platoon firing" should be that, but sadly the way it is done in game is nothing like actual platoon firing. Note a "platoon" was a section and did not have the same meaning it does today in terms of number of men.

I don't recall using fire and advance, but if the game does it right, one line is loaded before the other advances and fires. If you check out the Brandywine Videos I submitted, there is a section where this was done.

The fire by rank used in the game is almost silly the way they do it, (I wish someone at CA had contacted an authority as it would have been just as easy to do it right) , but overall it gives the right impresssion and effect and I actually like it quite a bit. There are many accounts of British troops mantaining almost a constant fire and I have to assume it was either by ranks or firing at will. Once the officer's gave the order to fire (and sometimes before) the men often pretty much took over. It needs to be remembered though that they practiced over and over again until they could almost do it in their sleep.

As to accuracy, casulties should be very light beyond 40 yards (unlike the game), but could be devastating at point blank range. I assume no further tinkering is being done in that department. If needed I could actually pull some studies conducted in the 18th century on that issue. An American weakness often was too fire too early. A British weakness was often to not compensate for elevation well enough. Entire volleys sometimes shot up the branches above the men's heads.

There is of course debate about such issues, so these are my own personal oppions.

[Newman55f9]

I just noticed the grenade comments. I agree grenades were not used much during the Rev War (it is possible a few were used at Princeton), but they can be fun. I am assuming one can just go to the table to turn them on again right?

[MorganH.]

Thanks for the insights mate ! Much obliged ! +rep

[hip63]

I just noticed the grenade comments. I agree grenades were not used much during the Rev War (it is possible a few were used at Princeton), but they can be fun. I am assuming one can just go to the table to turn them on again right?

don't worry about that none mate, the wookiee has it all under contol

hip63

[Flavious]

Re: The earlier post about battles happening at lightning speed and being over too quickly...
One reason for that is the unrealistically fast movement speeds that ETW uses over the terrain.
There's a "terrain speed mod" I use that reduces units' movements by 1/3 or 1/2 and greatly improves gameplay. It gives the units time to fire a volley or two before they close to bayonet distance. It works great with TAR and I highly recommend it.
Of course, realistic movement means players have to wait longer for combat to start -- so it's not going to make twitchy-fingered arcade enthusiasts happy.

[hip63]

TAR 2.0 will have reduced speed in battles (ala DM)

hip63

[Flavious]

TAR 2.0 will have reduced speed in battles (ala DM)

hip63

Huzzah!

[Gordon Highlander]

Ok I know that people ask for individual units a whole bunch. I just want to chime in for one of my faveorites. The 46th Foot. They are famous during the era for their attack at Brandywine.

[ToonTotalWar]

Ok I know that people ask for individual units a whole bunch. I just want to chime in for one of my faveorites. The 46th Foot. They are famous during the era for their attack at Brandywine.

ok I hear what you are saying and there are lots of units we would like to add to the mod. because CA will not give or add a scroll bar it is feasibly impossible to add anymore units to this mod!

Can you provide details and pictures of the unit to look into further please? thanks

[Gordon Highlander]

Here are the only good ones I could find on the web. Cheers!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also here is their info, lace, and colours for their service in North America.

http://www.fifedrum.org/crfd/images/D46.htm

[Continental Marine]

I like the Continental Army uniforms from the Continental Army Mod - Updated to Patch 1.4 those uniforms and units were Great the ones from the last TAR but the Continental Marines should look more like the Continental Line infantry - Silver Button but with the same hats but the front right side is folded up like in my avatar I have literally over hundred friends say thats all thats needs changing for them to download the mod. I was wondering if you could do that, change the Continental Marines uniform to look more realistic???

Also luv the TAR video on youtube great video i also like the Cpt. Holding a Spear like in the Patriot kooool