Unit Stats

**Kylan271** · October 24, 2009, 11:44 PM

Oh it was on your thread-Parthia that I made my 1000th post,lol..hiihii. Anyway congrats with your work as I downloaded your Mod now.

Darn detailed and had my brain rattling in my head at all the work..aghhh. Excellent!!!

Only thing is what the diddly oh is there such a huge charge range for skirmishers???? I mean I want the buggers to keep out of furball fights not kamikaze into them from way across the battle map???? 300 range for charge bonus????? Why??? I have increased my missile range by 10% and reduced charge distance by 1/2 to help,but you go opposite..hmmm.

And can anyone help explain the -50000 etc for stat_fire_delay. I have been told it helps with foot missile bug,but Aradan mentions it is not confirmed..or so. It is a Darth thing yes? Is there a link to how it works and how to assign the stats-as they vary,so not sure what number does what for which unit???

The armour data I was working on as the vanilla didn't give some armours to match unit types,so your's helpful...and detailed. Wow..^_* Appreciated.

I have to ask consent also to 'kidnap' one of your units,the Hiils Sword,aka hills axe,as I have RTR unit consent for TE Alex,but no axe for easterns. With my lack of skinning I sorely need such help. It is a 'Takabara' type I think correctly?

Anyway again congrats on your work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you need the full Variag roster???? I have it if you need? I don't use all their units as the legs look out out place when used with normal vanilla types. Rambos...

Speaking of Russian,I picked up a model from East Wind mod,but they use other people's units,ie KLA,SoR etc,but no credits that I see???? This one is from "Maxmus" but he has SoR units also,so I don't know? To use I need correct credits so can you ID or anyone here????? It looks Dark Fenrirish..hmmm

**AqD** · October 25, 2009, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by Kylan271

Oh it was on your thread-Parthia that I made my 1000th post,lol..hiihii. Anyway congrats with your work as I downloaded your Mod now.

Darn detailed and had my brain rattling in my head at all the work..aghhh. Excellent!!!

Only thing is what the diddly oh is there such a huge charge range for skirmishers???? I mean I want the buggers to keep out of furball fights not kamikaze into them from way across the battle map???? 300 range for charge bonus????? Why??? I have increased my missile range by 10% and reduced charge distance by 1/2 to help,but you go opposite..hmmm.

And can anyone help explain the -50000 etc for stat_fire_delay. I have been told it helps with foot missile bug,but Aradan mentions it is not confirmed..or so. It is a Darth thing yes? Is there a link to how it works and how to assign the stats-as they vary,so not sure what number does what for which unit???

Both come from Darth's tests. I cannot confirm the effects, but since charge is useless for infantry, why not?

Originally Posted by Kylan271

The armour data I was working on as the vanilla didn't give some armours to match unit types,so your's helpful...and detailed. Wow..^_* Appreciated.

It's not detailed enough in the mod, because armour/defense value is too low to represent everything - for instance the roman helmet with cheek guard is as weak as cheap pylos helmet . Have you checked the TIC's unit stats (made by mcantu I think)?

Originally Posted by Kylan271

I have to ask consent also to 'kidnap' one of your units,the Hiils Sword,aka hills axe,as I have RTR unit consent for TE Alex,but no axe for easterns. With my lack of skinning I sorely need such help. It is a 'Takabara' type I think correctly?

Yeah. You could also replace it with the full 3D axe from Bactrian medium cavalry. The one used by hillmen and other early units sucks.

Originally Posted by Kylan271

Anyway again congrats on your work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you need the full Variag roster???? I have it if you need? I don't use all their units as the legs look out out place when used with normal vanilla types. Rambos...

Speaking of Russian,I picked up a model from East Wind mod,but they use other people's units,ie KLA,SoR etc,but no credits that I see???? This one is from "Maxmus" but he has SoR units also,so I don't know? To use I need correct credits so can you ID or anyone here????? It looks Dark Fenrirish..hmmm

not sure what you meant.. If you need a list of contributors and credits of the mod, check the credits thread

**Kylan271** · October 25, 2009, 07:55 AM

Oh Bro,thanks..appreciated the unit use.

But..no....not sure what you meant.. If you need a list of contributors and credits of the mod, check the credits thread, I uploaded a model from another Mod,Russian called EastWind.. You have experience in moddeling more than I so maybe you could identify its creator??? It is listed as "maxmus" but he has SoR,KLA and other units under his name,so it is suspect the model is his???? Can you take a looksie and se what you think? Skinners I know leave a figure print in their work for the main,styles are unique that is...so maybe you can pick up on who owns it?

Oh what is TIC???? Max range for armour is 63. I got my data from Swampthing,he made a download of RTW construction tables. Armour data enclosed.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Hmmm,charge useless for infantry???????????????????????????????? Oh confused now sorry...so charge bonus does not work on infantry? I currently have kamikaze slingers and archers after adding in 300ish charge range ^_* . They all think they are Spartans!!!! I have to look at this Darth data as trying to get skirmishers to use all their ammo before closing is very difficult.

Oh data for units hmm,I had to think Russian as they did most work that area-Parthia etc,that I know of.

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...PZ307evdCyJ5k0

**Quinn Inuit** · October 30, 2009, 09:11 PM

For the record, I ran some tests with Darth's suggested fire delay and charge distance values on some small mixed armies (4 phalanx, two skirmisher). One side had the changes, the other didn't. I put my units under computer control, or just fired up multiple enemies and watched them move. I couldn't find any difference in AI behavior.

Has anyone else had any luck with this?

**AqD** · October 31, 2009, 07:35 AM

@Kylan271: they shouldn't charge unless their missile is useless against enemies

Are you playing my mod?
@Quinn: I tested it on Alexander and there seems to be no difference.

**Quinn Inuit** · October 31, 2009, 02:04 PM

Oh, well. It was definitely worth a try.

btw, I'm in the process of testing the "skirmish" class in the EDU. I'm using a version of Sinhuet's formations that I've tweaked a little, and I'm really liking how this works so far. It's really making a difference in how the AI uses light-ish units like thureophoroi or velites--ones that aren't exactly line infantry, but can hold up their end of a fight.

**AqD** · October 31, 2009, 02:12 PM

@Quinn: unfortunately skirmish class is ignored in AI recruitment and I have now restricted it for worthless peasants only, after mcantu pointed it out.

**Quinn Inuit** · October 31, 2009, 04:21 PM

Are you sure about that? I just ran about 25 turns as a test. My one change was to lower the cost of Hebrew skirmishers by 75% as a confirmation check. Test results: the game definitely recruits skirmishers. I saw large numbers of the Hebrew skirmishers recruited.

However, I didn't see many other skirmishers recruited. Part of the problem is that, with the economic nerf, people can't afford as many units period. I suspect, though, that they AI looks at them as worth less than ordinary units, so I may need to reduce their costs a little to compensate.

What effect do you think making them light infantry instead would have on AI usage of them in combat? I'm concerned it wouldn't utilize their missiles well.

**AqD** · November 01, 2009, 04:29 AM

@Quinn: are there any other infantry they can recruit in the same regions? I noticed that once they upgrade barracks they'd no longer recruit any unit of the "skirmish" class

**Quinn Inuit** · November 01, 2009, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by aqd

@Quinn: are there any other infantry they can recruit in the same regions? I noticed that once they upgrade barracks they'd no longer recruit any unit of the "skirmish" class

Ah hah! You are correct. The AI does not appear to be recruiting those units in higher-level barracks. (I just tested another 40 turns to see how it developed.) I'd say this experiment is a failure.

What on Earth were they thinking when they set up AI recruitment priorities? Seriously. I can see not implementing it at all, but setting them up so they're so incredibly deprecated they'll never be used?

**AqD** · November 01, 2009, 11:17 AM

@Quinn: it's set up according to unit classes. If cost isn't a problem, they'll always try to get the best unit of each classes. That's why I restrict the recruitment of elite units such as Hypaspitai to selected major cities.

The skirmish class is obviously skipped unless there is no other unit available - it could be useful for special units like elephants

**Quinn Inuit** · November 02, 2009, 08:18 PM

I see. I've had good luck modifying recruitment times, too, as a way of avoiding the need to tie units to major cities.

I think it will recruit skimirshers from an upper-level barracks if the skirmisher is ridiculously cheap. I saw the Ptolies recruit skirmishers from the Nile Delta region throughout one test game when I had that skirmisher cost 25% of its normal price. It must just deprecate the value of that class tremendously.