View Poll Results: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace

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  • Savior

    10 12.99%
  • Neither, He did both good and bad things

    29 37.66%
  • Menace

    38 49.35%
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Thread: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus the Irish View Post
    I suppose it depends upon how far you believe he was acting for the people and how far he (Che) was acting for himself. To be honest, history weighs against the leader acting out of benevolence, even if perhaps they intended to begin that way; especially regarding revolution.
    In my opinion, we can accuse Guevara of many things, but selfishness is not one of them.

    First, giving up a pretty high social position (doctor, from a well-to-do family) to help what was quite frankly an unlikely revolution in Cuba. Then, leaving Cuba, and a guaranteed position in the government (cushy job), to start from scratch an insurrection in Bolivia for several years. He gained absolutely nothing for himself, but gave up his life.


    @BNS

    I'm curious, how did the revolution destroy Cuban unity and spirit?

  2. #22
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    I believe BNS's parents or grandparents were refugees.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Ah, I see. I understand his views then.

  4. #24
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    My girlfriend's parents are refugees... But they love Che, Camilo and Raul.... their problem is with Fidel...
    Last edited by ★Bandiera Rossa☭; October 15, 2009 at 10:48 PM.


  5. #25
    BNS's Avatar ...
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    I believe BNS's parents or grandparents were refugees.
    Both. About half of my family really.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Compañero View Post
    My girlfriend's parents are refugees... But they love Che, Camilo and Raul.... their problem is with Fidel...
    Why then did they move to the U.S.?
    Last edited by BNS; October 15, 2009 at 10:51 PM.



  6. #26
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by BNS View Post
    Both. About half of my family really.


    Why did they move then to the U.S.?
    The mid sixties.. They were in their teens.. their parents are however of the same mind..


  7. #27
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    this makes things interesting.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  8. #28
    BNS's Avatar ...
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Compañero View Post
    The mid sixties.. They were in their teens.. their parents are however of the same mind..
    Their parents are for or against the revolution? What do they find admirable about Che and the unimaginative Camilo and Raul? What do they have against Fidel?



  9. #29

    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by ivan_the_terrible View Post
    I can understand why some disagree though, especially if their families have been adversely affected by some of his actions.
    I think you meant murdered and got confused.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  10. #30
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by BNS View Post
    Their parents are for or against the revolution? What do they find admirable about Che and the unimaginative Camilo and Raul? What do they have against Fidel?
    Their parents I believe were for the revolution initially but became wary of it as it grew in power and shifting towards authoritarianism (which caused them to flee to Mexico and later the US)
    They see in Che, Camilo, and Raul people who wished for change and for the betterment of the world but in Fidel they see a power hungry "mono" which is Spanish for.. Ape? I believe.


  11. #31
    BNS's Avatar ...
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Compañero View Post
    Their parents I believe were for the revolution initially but became wary of it as it grew in power and shifting towards authoritarianism (which caused them to flee to Mexico and later the US)
    They see in Che, Camilo, and Raul people who wished for change and for the betterment of the world but in Fidel they see a power hungry "mono" which is Spanish for.. Ape? I believe.
    Raul hasn't proven to be much different than his brother. What does it matter what Che's intentions where if he had to directly inflicted pain on thousands to try to reach some vague goals. Camilo is rumored to have been killed after becoming wary of the communist infiltration of their originally nationalist movement as had Matos. Neither of those three had any complaints about Fidel's power grabs.

    The only real Cuban hero worthy of celebration is this guy:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mart%C3%AD
    Last edited by BNS; October 15, 2009 at 11:27 PM.



  12. #32

    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus the Irish View Post
    The Crusades weren't about doing good. It was about land, wealth and absolution.
    Ah, no no, my friend. Yes, the Crusades were also about land, wealth, and absolution. However, as have been proven by either Tankbuster or TG many many times already, the Crusades were mainly about doing "good" for the "one true" religion.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Regardless, those burning eyes of the man became a symbol of struggle for justice and equality for all. If Jose Marti and Che got to have a talk, they would find that they have a lot in common

  14. #34
    BNS's Avatar ...
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Sultan View Post
    Regardless, those burning eyes of the man became a symbol of struggle for justice and equality for all. If Jose Marti and Che got to have a talk, they would find that they have a lot in common
    You clearly don't know Jose Marti then.



  15. #35

    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    You clearly don't know Jose Marti then.
    why dont you teach me?

  16. #36
    BNS's Avatar ...
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    He wasn't some maniac homicidal socialist. He in fact had acquired a strong taste for liberal government during his time in exile in the U.S. He admired the U.S. and wanted a future independent Cuba to have warm relations with it. However he was adamantly opposed to American imperialism and struggled for Cuban independence after the Spanish American war as to not just have Cuba controlled by another foreign power.



  17. #37

    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I think you meant murdered and got confused.
    Of course. Thank you. I don't know how I'd cope, without you being here to tell me what I meant.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    I understand why Cuban refugees don't like the guy but for me he was a hero to the poor and I admire things that he has done, not all of them but he wasn't any worse than Batista was.
    Poor people of South America will always see Che as a hero.

    Христе Боже распети и свети, Српска земља кроз облаке лети. Лети преко небеских висина, Крила су јој Морава и Дрина.
    На три свето и на три саставно,Одлазимо на Косово равно.
    Кад је драга да одлазим чула,За ревер ми невен заденула.
    Збогом први нерођени сине, Збогом ружо, збогом рузмарине. Збогом лето, јесени и зимо. Одлазимо да их победимо.
    March 24, 1999 - June 11, 1999


  19. #39
    Spartacus the Irish's Avatar Tally Ho!
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    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by asianboy View Post
    Ah, no no, my friend. Yes, the Crusades were also about land, wealth, and absolution. However, as have been proven by either Tankbuster or TG many many times already, the Crusades were mainly about doing "good" for the "one true" religion.
    Discussing further would be off topic. Lets just say I don't totally agree and leave it there.
    Quote Originally Posted by irelandeb View Post
    how do you suggest a battleship fire directly at tanks...?
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus the Irish View Post
    I don't suggest it. Battleships were, believe it or not, not anti-tank weapons.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Ernesto Guevara: Savior or Menace?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grof View Post
    Poor people of South America will always see Che as a hero.
    Precisely. Although I'd say for the poor of Latin America, not just South.

    BNS, with all respect to your family and the things they suffered (I presume suffered...), I think the Cuban poor they had it worse under Batista than under Fidel/Fidel MkII.

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