Confucius says...

[Amorphos]

Confucius says

Add your favourite Confucian sayings and your interpretation of questions about them…

“At home, obey the father.
Married, obey the husband.
Widowed, obey the son”

quetz wisdom; Obey wisdom and knowledge wherever it may lay’

“Eating and Sex are alike”

‘To each thing give only itself’ [classifying things together causes confusion and a lack in understanding of the particular].

"The ritual of revering Heaven and Earth is to give thanks to the grace of God."

I am curious about this one, what would an ancient chinese philosopher think god is? misinterpretation perhaps.

[finsternis]

What if the son is a drunken bastard like his father and grandfather?

[Amorphos]

What if the son is a drunken bastard like his father and grandfather?

that’s fine until you get some laim offspring who’s all sober n stuff. I was a punk but my daughter does ballet! It just goes like that.

[Chicken]

the "god" in chinese culture is not the "god" as in the christian or islam or judaism deity, like the all-powerful god, but the chinese 上帝 or 神 doesnt mean as in a all-powerful deity, but like an divine being in the sky that people look up to and sometimes pray to, its symbolic, and chinese people generally dont believe in Gods. Some do, but they believe in lots of gods which controls different things, like the "wind" god in chinese mythology, the "sea" god, ...etc. u get the gist of it....

hope this answers your question

[Stalins Ghost]

I don't actually think the Chinese form of "God" is that different - at least that's the impression I get from reading the Tao te Ching. Both refer more to a universal order of things (Dao/Tao, to use Chinese terminology) to which the whole world orientates it around; which isn't that far from the Abrahamic God at least.

[Amorphos]

Both refer more to a universal order of things (Dao/Tao, to use Chinese terminology) to which the whole world orientates it around; which isn't that far from the Abrahamic God at least.

you think so? i would say the Tao is nothing like god, as far as I know it is never described as such except in interpretation, certainly not a creator, it simply means ‘way’. equally, that ‘the way’ is arrived at just as it is for a skilled artisan and is always relative.

[Stalins Ghost]

But ultimately, is the Tao not the order by which the world is governed as a God or Gods is/are?

The language and pageantry are different, but ultimately they are much the same if you swap the names about a bit.

[Banana Jelly]

Confucius says

Add your favourite Confucian sayings and your interpretation of questions about them…

“At home, obey the father.
Married, obey the husband.
Widowed, obey the son”

quetz wisdom; Obey wisdom and knowledge wherever it may lay’

“Eating and Sex are alike”

‘To each thing give only itself’ [classifying things together causes confusion and a lack in understanding of the particular].

"The ritual of revering Heaven and Earth is to give thanks to the grace of God."

I am curious about this one, what would an ancient chinese philosopher think god is? misinterpretation perhaps.

I don't think Confucious religion is in belief with a god. Not many chinese cultures believe in god.

[Amorphos]

But ultimately, is the Tao not the order by which the world is governed as a God or Gods is/are?
The language and pageantry are different, but ultimately they are much the same if you swap the names about a bit.

I don’t think so, firstly there is no-one pulling the strings, changing things around from the outside, the tao may seam like a god but it doesn’t have a god at its core. The tao doesn’t change things by itself, things just arrive at the tao by themselves ~ perhaps as a natural consequence of balance and order. The fact that it isn’t a person of any kind is enough to say it is not a god.

Chinese religion had many gods so cannot be thought of as monotheistic.

[bushbush]

I don't think Confucious religion is in belief with a god. Not many chinese cultures believe in god.

actually confucianism is not a religion, to this day, predominant religions in china are buddhist, taoist, or traditional folk religion, often mixed together.



wutai mountain, one of the largest concentration of temples and etc in China, it has religious buildings and organizations ranging from Tibetan buddhism (the white tower u see), to chinese buddhism (the traditional eastern style building) to folk religion (legendary characters like Guan Yu are even gods lol).

Confucianism itself is not a religion, but it recognizes the idea that heaven and earth are beyond control and understanding of human beings. That's why emperors in the past have to pay tribute to heaven and earth for protection and blessing. Confucianism doesn't really regulate ppl's everyday religious belief, that void is filled by the three major religions i have listed.

[Amorphos]

I see many paralels with celtic and Chinese religion, they are both pagan and both have a lunar calendar and legendary figures. I guess people all over the world are not so different, although there are many differences for sure.

But yea, Confucianism is a philosophy, a very advanced one.

[Chicken]

I see many paralels with celtic and Chinese religion, they are both pagan and both have a lunar calendar and legendary figures. I guess people all over the world are not so different, although there are many differences for sure.

But yea, Confucianism is a philosophy, a very advanced one.

nope, u are quite wrong....

celt's figures are "mythical", but chinese philosophy and teachings of confucius are actually real people.

AND, celts were barbarians

[bushbush]

nope, u are quite wrong....

celt's figures are "mythical", but chinese philosophy and teachings of confucius are actually real people.

AND, celts were barbarians

actually he is right, there are tons of mythical characters in chinese folk religion/taoism/buddhism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Emperor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Immortals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cai_Shen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zao_Jun

(last one i know well cuz where i am from he is a quite important god).

[Chicken]

i know, thats the mythical figures BEFORE 4000 BCE, which is a LONG TIME ago

but, most chinese "philosophers" (ie confucius, mencius..etc) are REAL people, the "gods" u listed are mythical figures.

[Amorphos]

celt's figures are "mythical", but chinese philosophy and teachings of confucius are actually real people.

They were real people too e.g. lugh, bran the blessed, [mythical but also real] maybe even Arthur was based on someone real. I cant remember the rest but if you read any welsh or irish literature it is full of them. most celtic deities were originally people.

I don’t think 'barbarian' is a relevant classification, warlike yes but who wasn’t. they were technologically advanced, invented chain mail and plate armour etc, but just not on the scale of the romans ~ mainly because they didn’t want to live like that.

Spiritually the celts believed in the awen which is similar to the tao except its thought of as the source rather than the way, but due to it expression in the form of ‘awens’ it is similar to the tao.

Anyways lets keep this to Chinese philosophy.
Chinese philosophy and spirituality is imo more advanced than abrahamic religions, because it doesn’t anthropomorphise the fundamental nature of reality.

A good book to read is capra’s, ‘the tao of physics’, it shows how easily the tao and science can correlate, but try fitting god into physics and see how far you get.

[Genius of the Restoration]

Some sayings:

When it comes to acquiring perfect virtue, a man should not defer even to his own teacher (Analects XV:35)
The pursuit of what is right is more important than obeying commands, even if they come from your superiors. I take this to mean that perfect virtue is more important than honouring others' wishes. More important than filial piety? I think it's in the same boat. If your father is being a good man, then you will be pious. If he is immoral however and breaks his part of the deal by abandonning virtue then you don't need to be loyal to him.

It is man that can make the Way great, not the Way that can make man great (XV:28)
You've got to be the one making a positive change. It's no good believing in a higher purpose thinking it will sort things out for you. The responsibility lies with you.

The Duke of She asked about good government. Confucius said: "A government is good when those near are happy and those far off are attracted" (XIII:16)
Doesn't need much explanation, I just agree with it

[RollingWave]

the concept of Tao is closer to a monotheistic belief like Christianity, but it is neither exclusive (which is really the key signature of Christianity and Islam that it denounce other believes) nor complusary. at it's core it is a philosophy (a very good one ), though later people attach religions onto it. (Daoism as a religion is really a mixture of traditional chinese religion and buddhism, with the Daoist philosophy as cover)

Confucian teachings should really not be taken out of context. and really, this is just plain wrong on many degrees.

Eating and Sex are alike

First of all, I'm pretty sure your translating the term 食色性也， which is said by Meng Tsi, not Confucius . and what's more, it doesn't say they're the same, it says that "The need for food and sex are both part of human nature", which is just pointing out the obvious

[Amorphos]

GTR

The pursuit of what is right is more important than obeying commands

Good ethic and nice interpretation ~ finally I get some Confucian sayings, thanks!

It is man that can make the Way great, not the Way that can make man great (XV:28)

I really like this saying, many people expect destiny to bring then something or to greatness, but in truth we can only make great thing happen ourselves. I think maybe there are the odd exceptions though e.g. some historical figures seam to have destiny right behind them, some things just kinda fall into place seemingly by sheer coincidence.

rollingwave

Confucian teachings should really not be taken out of context. and really, this is just plain wrong on many degrees.

I agree, also that they may be questioned and some maybe out of place or outdated relative to our current society and philosophies, but in their own contexts they are right.

First of all, I'm pretty sure your translating the term 食色性也， which is said by Meng Tsi, not Confucius . and what's more, it doesn't say they're the same, it says that "The need for food and sex are both part of human nature", which is just pointing out the obvious

I see. Is that the accepted meaning? If it is then it is of course right, I was seeing it as like French chefs correlate good foods with sexiness and some food items with sexual parts, and sexual parts with foodstuffs e.g. “oh my little cabbage” is a translation of a French saying for the female sexual parts.
Obviously sexual cannibalism is an extreme of this, hence the need for clarification, as I inferred with my examination in the op.

[RollingWave]

Most of the Confucian writings can be found on Wiki source anyway (at least the Chinese versions)

The term 食色性也 come from this passage in MengZhi , the first chapter of GaoZhi

告子曰：「食色，性也。仁，內也，非外也。義，外也，非內也。」孟子曰：「何以謂仁內義外也？」曰：「彼長而我長之，非有長於我也。猶彼白而我白之，從其白於外也，故謂之外也。」曰：「異於白馬之白也，無以異於白人之白也！不識長馬之長也，無以異於長人之長歟？且謂長者義乎？長之者義乎？」曰：「吾弟則愛之，秦人之弟則不愛也，是以我為悅者也，故謂之內。長楚人之長，亦長吾之長，是以長為悅者也，故謂之外也。」曰：「嗜秦人之炙，無以異於嗜吾炙。夫物則亦有然者也。然則嗜炙亦有外歟？」

Gao Zhi says " Food and Sex, the natural need of humans. Compassion, is something from within, while righteousness, is the outter appearance. "

I'm out of time to translate the rest of the passage right now, but as you can obviously see, this passage was just used to first state the obvious, and the key of the passage was to debate on why compassion is a inward feeling while righteousness is an outward appearance. the reason why that first passage gets quoted so much is really just as a idiom to point out the obvious need of humans. so it's pretty silly to quote it as some sort of Confucian knowledge

The story that Chinese textbooks in Taiwan like to use most from MengZhi is this.

孟子曰：「舜發於畎畝之中，傅說舉於版築之間，膠鬲舉於魚鹽之中，管夷吾舉於士，孫叔敖舉於海，百里奚舉於市。故天將降大任於是人也，必先苦其心志，勞其筋骨，餓其體膚，空乏其身，行拂亂其所為；所以動心忍性，曾益其所不能。人恆過，然後能改。困於心，衡於慮，而後作。徵於色，發於聲，而後喻。入則無法家拂士、出則無敵國外患者，國恆亡。然後知生於憂患，而死於安樂也。」

Rough translation " Sun (one of the early fabled kings ) was born in the farmlands, Bo Sho (another early saint) was a construction worker, Jiao Ge (another one) was raised as a coastal fisherman, Guang Yi (the famous Spring and Autumn premier of the Qi kingdom) was born into the solider class (the lowest class of nobles in the Zhou) , Sun Shu Ao was raised next to the sea, Bei Li Xi was raised in the market.

Thus if heaven were to entrust great responsibilities to a man, it must first strain his intelligence, tire his bones and muscles , starve his body, impoverish his life hood, disrupt his actions. All of these are meant to strengthen his will and resolve, to give him abilities which he did not have.

People make mistakes, then they can make amends, they face difficult decision and problems, then they require great resolve. They must first have people be dissatisfied with them, and openly criticize them, then they can find enlightenment. if you have no consuls who will criticize you and obey the law, and you face no foreign threats and enemies, then your state is doomed.

So we can understand that people thrive when faced with trouble and threats, and they die when they experience peace and leisure.

[RollingWave]

As for Confucius, the work attributed to him tend to be one passage lines where he talk about something. like..

子曰：「學而不思則罔，思而不學則殆。」

Confucius says " Studying (books) without thinking would leave you confused, thinking without studying would often lead to false answers."

or

子曰: 三人行，必有我師

Confucius says " if you see three people walking together, then at least one of them would have something you can learn from"