Jumping people after charge

[Monthy]

Hi,

I was always annoyed when the knights charge throw up enemy units. Is it possible in accordance with the principles of physics to push the enemy soldiers back? I mean in the same direction in which the charge is?

It was made well in the MTW ROME

[Mads]

Or is it possible to make the 'falling arch' lower, to make it look like they are pushed over? It just looks silly when they fly around, especially when they are thrown in the air by a lance.

[sumskilz]

Yeah, it's possible to change it, but we don't have an animator on the team. Hopefully we will at some point though.

[Monthy]

Is there possibility to import this animation from MTW ROME?

[sumskilz]

Is there possibility to import this animation from MTW ROME?

It probably can be done, but we'd need someone who knows about animations to do it and if we had such a person on the team, they'd likely be able to create something better.

[Aio]

What about the numbers quantifing the power of cavalry charge?
They differ quite a lot from mod to mod... For example in Rome: TW Vanilla it ranges from 5 to 8, in Stainless Steel from 8 to 11 and Broken Crescent it goes up to 17 (and, of course, i've chosen this game versions because they propose comparable defence stats for infantry).
What's the modders' opinion on the right values. I'm not actually asking for numbers, but rather for your opinion on how decisive in battle should the cavalry charge be.

[sumskilz]

What about the numbers quantifing the power of cavalry charge?
They differ quite a lot from mod to mod... For example in Rome: TW Vanilla it ranges from 5 to 8, in Stainless Steel from 8 to 11 and Broken Crescent it goes up to 17 (and, of course, i've chosen this game versions because they propose comparable defence stats for infantry).
What's the modders' opinion on the right values. I'm not actually asking for numbers, but rather for your opinion on how decisive in battle should the cavalry charge be.

We won't make any definitive decisions until we've done some testing, but our numbers will likely be based on Point Blank's Real Combat stats.

[Alkidas]

If we forget gameplay (what is possible and what isn't) for a moment, then all I can say is that it depends. Mere cavalry charge isn't able to break well-organized infantry with a good morale. What needs to be done in order to break the infantry is to weaken and disturb it beforehand - missile fire is an effective way to do that. A lot actually depends on the infantry - morale, tactical ability and terrain in general are important factors.

[Taiji]

Hi,

I was always annoyed when the knights charge throw up enemy units. Is it possible in accordance with the principles of physics to push the enemy soldiers back? I mean in the same direction in which the charge is?

It was made well in the MTW ROME

You can balance this with unit mass.

I suppose you could also switch the flying animations for knockback animations.

Just a suggestion

[Alkidas]

Some things are harder to do. I don't think there's any way to represent the actual effect of arrows for instance. So arrows will end up being effective by simply killing a whole lot of people.

[Zombimode]

Moral is effected by loses. A unit constanly pepered by arrows is more likely to break. Of course if the moral numbers are all over the top (eg: 12 moral as a standard) this isnt noticeable. With a vanilla moral level (5 for normal units) it works. And a vanilla moral level is pretty good if the killspeed is NOT vanilla level.

[Alkidas]

But that sounds to me like the normal consequence of losing men, not in any way distinguishing between the effect of arrows and, say, swords.

[Zombimode]

Yes, but there are tactical differences.
1. How much swords do you can bring on to the enemy? A meele combatant needs space to do his work. Of course there are limits on missle troops, but even a single archer unit may preform more attack attempts per minute than a unit of meele infantry. More importantly you can easily concentrate your fire and with less limitations than with meele infantry.

2. The enemy unit may not able to fight back. If you are in meele your enemy is too.

In most cases its not a question of swords or bows, but archery provides an additional option that in combination might achieve more than one of the components alone.

A strong meele unit that is approaching your line may cause a lot of damage if it has to be bested in meele alone. But if pepered with arrows before it may fall far more quickly even if the theoretical damage pontential of the unit is only insignificantly lower (say a unit with 120 men loses 10 men to missle fire, its damage pontential is more or less the same).

I realize that it depends greatly on the rest of the stat system.

[Alkidas]

Yes, but this, it seems to me, still has nothing to do with the archers mainly affecting the way the opponent is organized or its morale which is what I was referring to, but still about mainly killing and whatever is related to it/can be deduced from it in tactical terms.

[Zombimode]

Well, If you ask: can archers be used to demoralize the enemy? then the answers is a clear "yes"
The mechanics behind are irrelevant.

If you ask: can archers mess up an enemy formation? then the answer is a clear "yes" too.
Even if an archery attack is too weak to inflict seriuos causalties to an enemy unit, every "hit" puts the soldier into the "staggering" animation. This breaks up the formation, confuses it and may even bring an advancing unit to a halt. (You may not see this in vanilla or certain mods; again it depends on the stat system, but is definitly possible)

What do you think is missing from the representation of archery in MTW2?

[Alkidas]

So you mean that it could be possible to mod the archers so that instead of being killing machines they would cause less casualties, but mess up the formation so that a cavalry charge could break an otherwise solid spearwall? Also what you wrote about advancing units losing their cohesion because of arrows reminds one of the French charge at Crécy, doesn't it? Interesting, we should really take a look at this if it's possible to do something like this.

[RottenTree]

Hi,

I was always annoyed when the knights charge throw up enemy units. Is it possible in accordance with the principles of physics to push the enemy soldiers back? I mean in the same direction in which the charge is?

It was made well in the MTW ROME

They are not thrown up by the charge
Imagine that you are an inexperienced(in war) peasant who has been given a sharp stick and a wide plank and you are facing a horde of medieval tanks thundering towards you. You can't dodge to the left or right because your buddies are in the way so what do you do?
You try to jump over them which usually doesn't work but still it's better to try, Your odds are a bit better that way.
Now if you want to prevent your troops from jumping you should cling as many pieces of heavy iron on them as you can thus ensuring that they can only use their legs to shuffle forward.

@Alkidas
I think what Zombimode is saying is that it's already in the game.
For example: infantry charging archer volley hits them then the charge stops the infantry regroups and then continues.
Playing in skirmish battles I sometimes noticed this.

[Monthy]

They are not thrown up by the charge
Imagine that you are an inexperienced(in war) peasant who has been given a sharp stick and a wide plank and you are facing a horde of medieval tanks thundering towards you. You can't dodge to the left or right because your buddies are in the way so what do you do?
You try to jump over them which usually doesn't work but still it's better to try, Your odds are a bit better that way.
Now if you want to prevent your troops from jumping you should cling as many pieces of heavy iron on them as you can thus ensuring that they can only use their legs to shuffle forward.

@Alkidas
I think what Zombimode is saying is that it's already in the game.
For example: infantry charging archer volley hits them then the charge stops the infantry regroups and then continues.
Playing in skirmish battles I sometimes noticed this.

You mean cavalry jumping over sharp sticks?
I spoke about the impact of heavy cavalry charge. Not jumping horses literally.

[RottenTree]

You mean cavalry jumping over sharp sticks?
I spoke about the impact of heavy cavalry charge. Not jumping horses literally.

I think I'm going to let the Joke Department be run by Hross & co.

[sumskilz]

I think I'm going to let the Joke Department be run by Hross & co.

Nice!

I spoke about the impact of heavy cavalry charge. Not jumping horses literally.

Yeah, that's not a recommended activity. A guy in my part of the world died a few years back while being on the other end of such a liaison. http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4158101.html