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Thread: First Rates, aren't

  1. #1

    Default First Rates, aren't

    Y'know something has been bugging me about empire ever since I first played a naval battle with some ships of the line. Then yesterday it clicked. I looked closely at the 1st Rate for the first time and I realized it was modeled on HMS Temeraire. That can't be right, I thought, the Temeraire was a 2nd Rate. So I did something really nerdy and counted the gunports in the broadside... but sure enough, there's only 98 gun ports. The 106 comes from the counting of the 8 Chasers. That means the First Rate isn't a First Rate at all!

    Heh! It seems CA have done something a little odd and counted the chase armament in some ships but not in others. For instance the 3rd Rate is a 70 gun ship and the chasers are counted, as opposed to it actually being a true 74. Oddly the chasers are NOT counted in the 2nd or 4th Rates, which would otherwise be 94 and 60 gun ships respectively.

    The frigates aren't much better either. The 6th rate has no chasers but does have a 32 gun broadside but with a 32 gun broadside, she's actually 5th Rate! Then there's what the game calls a 5th Rate which is in fact a 50 gun 4th Rate ship but with the cannons missing from the quarterdeck and the chasers counted (again) to make a 48 gun ship.

    Weird...

    I don't get it. Why count some chasers and not others? Can't be for game balance, as it's not like the chasers on the 2nd and 4th Rates are purely ornamental, so what's the score....?
    Last edited by Jayce; October 14, 2009 at 05:30 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: First Rates, aren't

    WHAT?! I want real 1st rates!
    Is she... you know...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    ?

  3. #3

    Default Re: First Rates, aren't

    its pretty old news... looks like they didnt spend too much time in that museum they made those models from... insted they should just take some book and model a proper 18.century ships...

    and as a joke to us all, they locked those models, so we cant change them...

  4. #4

    Default Re: First Rates, aren't

    Yeah. I did a little bit more digging, wanting to get to the bottom of this and it looks like the answer is that alot of the ships are missing guns from their quarterdecks and fo'c'sles....

    Heres a break down:

    Heavy 1st Rate: 120 Broadside guns, 8 chasers. Seems to be modeled on the L'Orient and is carrying 2 too many guns on her fo'c'sle.

    1st Rate: 98 Broadside guns, 8 chasers. Modeled on the Royal George. She's missing 8 guns from her fo'c'sle, otherwise she'd correctly be 106 guns. Chasers incorrectly counted toward broadside.

    2nd Rate: 86 Broadside Guns, 8 chasers. Missing all her quarterdeck and fo'c'sle guns (12), otherwise she'd correctly be a 98 Gun 2nd Rate.

    3rd Rate: 70 Broadside guns, 4 chasers. Looks like she's modeled on a mid 18th century British 70, rather than the later '74' the blurb talks about. Chasers are incorrectly counted towards her broadside.

    4th Rate: 56 Broadside guns, 4 chasers. This one really is a '74' however they've ommited the 18 quarterdeck and fo'c'sle guns and the gunports for them. That she's called a "fourth rate" is a hilarious understatement.

    5th Rate: 46 Broadside guns, 2 chasers. Modeled on an early 18th century British 60 gun ship, actually making her a 4th Rate. (In fact I think she's modeled on George Anson's HMS Centurion. Although her stern gallery appears to have been co-opted for the 4th Rate in-game model.) She's missing all 14 of her quarterdeck and fo'c'sle guns and incorrectly counts her chasers toward her broadside. Bizarely, the short poop cabin is also missing, leaving her only one set of stern windows.

    The Razeé: This seems to be a standard 50 gun ship and not a Razeé at all. Missing 4 guns from her quarterdeck.

    6th Rate: 30 Broadside guns, 2 chasers. Actually a 32 gun ship, making her a 5th Rate. She's missing 2 guns from her fo'c'sle and incorrectly counts her chasers toward her broadside.

    The running theme throughout seems to be missing guns. I wonder if CA were having trouble with pathfinding or clipping issues with the crews? I've certainly noticed crew members randomly fall overboard when a clipping issue happens.
    Last edited by Jayce; October 15, 2009 at 01:33 AM. Reason: Missed the Razeé

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