Better Squareformations

[drake546]

I'm curious if giving infantry the pikewall ability would be a better representation of a square than what we currently have. There's nothing special about forming a square, its just four groups of line infantry, with each line facing a different direction, with bayonets fixed and front rank forward. You could do the sameout forming a square if the enemy was going to only charge from a single direction.

It'd be a more realistic way of setting up a square, you wouldn't be making 20 individual squares. Just make them unable to move, and more vulnerable to fire due to their tight formation, with a bonus in melee. The unit ability is already in the game even. Of course the BAI wouldn't use it right anyway which defeats the thought I suppose.

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

this reminds me that they better fix pikemen. I don't care if they revert back to RTW style of pikemen they better fix pikes this time.

[Didz]

What actually annoys me most about squares at the minute is that the AI forms them in the middle of a melee, even with infantry, and they seem to have a global defence advantage.

[Lance-Corporal Jones]

this reminds me that they better fix pikemen. I don't care if they revert back to RTW style of pikemen they better fix pikes this time.

^This.

Yes, pikemen were obsolete; but they weren't obsolete because they were retarded idiots who fought with their swords instead of their pikes. They were obsolete because of gunpowder.

Nerfing them into oblivion isn't the answer, CA.

[Didz]

Pikemen had that problem in MTW2, I believe someone solved it by taking their swords away, though I'm not sure how thay did that.

[tskhdawson]

this reminds me that they better fix pikemen. I don't care if they revert back to RTW style of pikemen they better fix pikes this time.

Pikeman had completely disappeared from the battlefield by the time Napoleon came to power. So I don't think they'll bother to put them in the game, much less change them in any way.

[Didz]

Both Prussian and Russian militia units were armed with pikes for a while due to a shortage of muskets.

[HMS Empire Broadsword]

i dont think you should need four units of infantry to form square. What if you only have three? Then what? Cavalrydeath, thats what, because apparently their arent enough units to form square.

Yes i know you cant fight realistic napoleonic battles due to size limitations and all that. but think:

-How would anyone's computer deal with 50,000+ soldiers? How? They would'nt. They would blow up.

-Its hard enough as it is to micromanage 20 units as it is. If i spend 30 seconds dealing with my cavalry, i find out my archers have been run down by enemy horsies. I sort out the enemy horsies, to find out my infantry line has been flanked and everyone is running away. Managing 50,000+ soldiers like this would be too hard.



Although i dont like the current Empire square. It is too flimsy. EWhen cavalry charge it, it doesnt fire, it just stands still. The cavalry break through the square,, and the square breaks up. The battle becomes any old mess.

In reality, squares would fire at charging horsies. Then they would present thier bayonets, as no horse would want to charge into a hedge of bayonets. Instead they would flow around the square, trying to attack other sides, but getting shot at all the time by the squares other faces. This is what happened at many battles, notably Waterloo. The Waterloo film portrays this excelently.
If a charge was pressed home, then it would usually be stopped by the bayonets. the Cavalry would try to cut their way in but would almost always fail and retreat. If the cavalry suceded in breaking the square like they do int the game, then the square would die. The cavalry would be inside the square. It would be like eating something from the inside out.

[drake546]

i dont think you should need four units of infantry to form square. What if you only have three? Then what? Cavalrydeath, thats what, because apparently their arent enough units to form square.

Yes i know you cant fight realistic napoleonic battles due to size limitations and all that. but think:

-How would anyone's computer deal with 50,000+ soldiers? How? They would'nt. They would blow up.

-Its hard enough as it is to micromanage 20 units as it is. If i spend 30 seconds dealing with my cavalry, i find out my archers have been run down by enemy horsies. I sort out the enemy horsies, to find out my infantry line has been flanked and everyone is running away. Managing 50,000+ soldiers like this would be too hard.



Although i dont like the current Empire square. It is too flimsy. EWhen cavalry charge it, it doesnt fire, it just stands still. The cavalry break through the square,, and the square breaks up. The battle becomes any old mess.

In reality, squares would fire at charging horsies. Then they would present thier bayonets, as no horse would want to charge into a hedge of bayonets. Instead they would flow around the square, trying to attack other sides, but getting shot at all the time by the squares other faces. This is what happened at many battles, notably Waterloo. The Waterloo film portrays this excelently.
If a charge was pressed home, then it would usually be stopped by the bayonets. the Cavalry would try to cut their way in but would almost always fail and retreat. If the cavalry suceded in breaking the square like they do int the game, then the square would die. The cavalry would be inside the square. It would be like eating something from the inside out.

What I meant was, not four units, just four groups. You can make a square (in reality) with 50 men, and you can make it with 5000. The concept is the same. Men in close order, with bayonets fixed, front rank kneeling. This should be a base option for line infantry, independent of their formation. Then we could create our own square, of any size we desired (or even triangles, as you suggested). Optimally, square formation would be under group formations, but CA has mostly lost interest in this aspect of the interface.

You are right about cavalry and squares, as well. It was entirely dependent on if the infantry holds, and typically a charge would not be completed if the infantry looked stable.