Iran's new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad...

[MoROmeTe]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said at his speech following his swearing in: "If our faith is weakened, our identity is weakened".

I'd like comments focused mainly on the idea, but of course taking into account the identity of the speaker...

[removeduser_487563287433]

What if Bush had said it?

[Ummon]

Bush is not a terrorist and has not kidnapped diplomats inside an embassy as far as I see it...

[removeduser_487563287433]

My point remains. Both men use religious mumbo jumbo in their rhetoric.

[Major.Stupidity]

Bush is not a terrorist and has not kidnapped diplomats inside an embassy as far as I see it...

But, the president of Iran was not a hostage taker. He was part of the group, but he wasn't a kidnapper. And I believe CIA analysts were sent the picture in question of the kidnapper who looked remarkably close to the Iranian president, and determined it wasn't him.

[Sidus Preclarum]

Bush is not a terrorist and has not kidnapped diplomats inside an embassy as far as I see it...

neither has the Iranian president as far as the CIA sees it .
And he has yet to invade another country ...

[Tom Paine]

Faith does play a major part in personal identity, for things like morality and so on. However, as an unchanging and pretty static belief system, it has no art to play in national identity or politics; those have to react and change to situations that weren't around a hundred years ago, let alone one and a half millenia.

[Kanaric]

My point remains. Both men use religious mumbo jumbo in their rhetoric.

Except one lives in a theocratical country where it is used to oppress people and the other lives in a country with freedom of religion.

[Custor]

Cue daft 'God speaks through me' quotes from both Presidents, followed by a flameing.

[Ummon]

My point remains. Both men use religious mumbo jumbo in their rhetoric.

I use religious mumbo jumbo and I am a killer, I use religious mumbo jumbo and I am not a killer. Different situations. Killer here is meant as: directly responsible of killings.

But, the president of Iran was not a hostage taker. He was part of the group, but he wasn't a kidnapper. And I believe CIA analysts were sent the picture in question of the kidnapper who looked remarkably close to the Iranian president, and determined it wasn't him.

Ahamdinedjad was the one in charge with the whole operation, apparently.

neither has the Iranian president as far as the CIA sees it .
And he has yet to invade another country ...

Have you seen the photoes? I have had my abundant share of anathomy: that guy is the boss of the hostage crisis, a few decades older.

[Tom Paine]

I use religious mumbo jumbo and I am a killer, I use religious mumbo jumbo and I am not a killer. Different situations. Killer here is meant as: directly responsible of killings.

So conspiracy and being at one remove excuses it/them? Really?

Have you seen the photoes? I have had my abundant share of anathomy: that guy is the boss of the hostage crisis, a few decades older.

I'd go with the CIA on this personally: they have experts for this sort of thing, and you are not an expert on it, Ummon. If we wanted comparative psychological profiles, now, that would be a different matter.

[Ummon]

So conspiracy and being at one remove excuses it/them? Really?.

I didn't get this, really. Please reformulate.

I'd go with the CIA on this personally: they have experts for this sort of thing, and you are not an expert on it, Ummon. If we wanted comparative psychological profiles, now, that would be a different matter.

I am a doctor, Squeakus. Not just a psychoanalyst.

Furthermore, the CIA has political motives to keep a low profile, for now. There's a negotiation on nuclear weapons going on.

[Tom Paine]

I didn't get this, really. Please reformulate.

Organising and allowing murders on a grand scale (and to the sound of trumpets), or facilitating murders, is better than being responsible directly for the killings?

I am a doctor, Squeakus. Not just a psychoanalyst.

Furthermore, the CIA has political motives to keep a low profile, for now. There's a negotiation of nuclear weapons going on.

True, but I'd still trust them and their experts: the experts have no political agenda and if the CIA released a flase conclusion don't you think we might have heard from a ******-off expert or two by now?

[Ummon]

Organising and allowing murders on a grand scale (and to the sound of trumpets), or facilitating murders, is better than being responsible directly for the killings?

Yes. War is a codified action which has rules, and as such, it is not kidnapping innocents and killing them, or torturing them, starving them, etc. All heads of state have to take difficult decisions, but terrorism is not one of those.

True, but I'd still trust them and their experts: the experts have no political agenda and if the CIA released a flase conclusion don't you think we might have heard from a ******-off expert or two by now?

I don't want to tell you who to trust.

[Tom Paine]

Yes. War is a codified action which has rules, and as such, it is not kidnapping innocents and killing them, or torturing them, starving them, etc. All heads of state have to take difficult decisions, but terrorism is not one of those.

a) What is innocent? Is diong things to avoid having them done unto you evil or just selfish, is it punishable? Because it is being punished, and was being punished, at Abu Ghraib...
b) State-sponsored terrorism. Would you condemn Reagan and Bush Sr for the taliban and Al-Q? Both sponsored, along with other jihadists, by the regimes to remove the Soviets.

[Erik]

Other experts say the same thing: Ahmadinejad is not the kidnapper.
At first glance they look pretty simular but they have different shaped noses and ears.

[Ummon]

Other experts say the same thing: Ahmadinejad is not the kidnapper.
At first glance they look pretty simular but they have different shaped noses and ears.

The nose can get wider with old age. The ears, I must confess, I have never seen them.

[Tom Paine]

The nose can get wider with old age. The ears, I must confess, I have never seen them.

I'm not disagreeing (I don't have the knowledge), but how does it do that? I would have thought it would stay proportionally the same...

[Ummon]

Possible motives:

1) A broken nose (one case that has to be taken into account, I have a broken nose and my profile has changed alot from the photoes of ten years ago infact).
2) Hormones. Growth Hormone variations due to age-related (and unrelated) pathologies may cause changes in cartilage or soft tissue width and thickness.
3) Injuries or other causes resulting in plastic surgery. Iran has been through a war, remember.

Of course, these are just three examples.

[Erik]

The nose can get wider with old age. The ears, I must confess, I have never seen them.

This would only be a factor if they used a recent picture of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, but they didn't.
They compared a picture of Ahmadinejad from around the same time.

I was mistaking about the ears, btw, since they aren't on the pictures.
I saw a Dutch expert talk about it on TV a while ago, he showed several places where the faces didn't match, maybe it was nose and eyes, can't remember.
But if you look at the picture the noses are clearly different.
I would not recognize them as the same person.

edit: both the top and lower part of his nose looks very different: much wider
That would have been a heck of a broken nose.

Actually the only thing that makes them look alike is their facial hair because they are somewhat the same style.
The hostage taker is far better looking, lol.