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Thread: Greek Cities

  1. #1

    Default Greek Cities

    I've played this game (and love it) with the romans a few times. Its time for a new challenge, so I thought I would try out the Greek Cities.....anyone have any battle advice? I'm struggling trying to decide how to best use them in the field.


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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Look in the guide sticky and look at the greek guide.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Get Spartans as soon as possible.

    <<Un collègue; un ami.>>

  4. #4

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    The Spartans are fairly crap in RS1.5 for their price, 1 turn recruitment and AOR.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    u dont neccesarily need spartans, i used an army with a few units of syracusan hoplites in it to attack the romans as a suicide attack when i was playing as the greek cities. The army managed to take 2 roman cities with phyrric victories before the number of casualties hurt them too badly and they were destroyed, but at least i got a load of money from relocating the populaces and destryoing the buildings.


  6. #6

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    The Spartans are fairly crap in RS1.5 for their price, 1 turn recruitment and AOR.
    The Armoured Hoplites have a 'push-back' value of ~3; the Spartans have a 4, the highest non-cavalry value in the game. They can literally, when they impact the enemy, kill people by hitting them with their bodies. Three units of Spartans can, theoretically, take on an three times their number if used correctly. Of course, you have valid points. They are extremely expensive to recruit and maintain, they take 1 turn to recruit, and they can only be recruited in Sparta. Comes down to this, in my eyes; pay for two militia hoplites who will run when they hit 30 men left, or recruit Spartan hoplites who will never run; never retreat; never surrender, and looked wicked cool?

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Islands, wonders, Spartans.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  8. #8

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by General Brittanicus View Post
    i used an army with a few units of syracusan hoplites in it to attack the romans as a suicide attack when i was playing as the greek cities. The army managed to take 2 roman cities with phyrric victories before the number of casualties hurt them too badly and they were destroyed, but at least i got a load of money from relocating the populaces and destryoing the buildings.
    If it's Romans, you should try using the militia to go in first, so they are the ones that eat the pila.

    As an added bonus, as you take their cities, you can depopulate those settlements further by turning everyone into militia. Nothing quite says "haha Romans" like turning Rome into a ghost town because everyone left to go swarm the other roman settlements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoroshia View Post
    Comes down to this, in my eyes; pay for two militia hoplites who will run when they hit 30 men left, or recruit Spartan hoplites who will never run; never retreat; never surrender, and looked wicked cool?
    You're exaggerating. I've had units get down to literally 2 or 3 people. When they run at 30 soldiers (which is already very few) it's usually the case that I've been using them for something like catching pilas. In which case they can still catch pilas with their backs ... (and then the whole unit heals post-battle).

  9. #9

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    You're exaggerating. I've had units get down to literally 2 or 3 people. When they run at 30 soldiers (which is already very few) it's usually the case that I've been using them for something like catching pilas. In which case they can still catch pilas with their backs ... (and then the whole unit heals post-battle).
    Well, I didn't have an exact number to go on really. Usually, militia hoplites rout (for me at least) at around 10-20. Sometimes, however, a cavalry charge from behind that catches me by surprise (I was most likely watching the hockey game ) will break their will, and they'll rout with 50-60 guys left.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Militia are also very General dependent.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

  11. #11

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    I use militia with even new generals. One thing that helps is having a city hoplite around, which helps increase morale. What's really important is to not get them in a situation where they'll take losses quickly. A unit can literally be shot down to the last man, but slowly, wheras if it loses 50% in just a few seconds, they'll run. From light cavalry, too - sheesh.

    Definitely, though, if you have the right tactics, you can easily get militia to be steady at possibly 50/242 men left (new general). My faction leader, though, can actually get them to fight down to 1 person and still be "eager" - which actually doesn't help much, since if they ran at 20 or so, I could get a unit of reinforcements in faster.

    Archers (volley fire) and cavalry (charges) are the most dangerous enemies. For the former, make sure the unit faces the archers and try to pull them out into a thin line. Even if enemies hit them, it's fine if you have help. For cavalry, don't ever get hit in the side. Rather than that, have your men run and counter-charge. I think you'll lose 25%, possibly, but the unit tends to be confident as it wasn't attacked in the side and also probably got some charge bonus off. Also, the cavalry will be stuck in the middle of all those stabby stabby spears.

    Defensive/Guard mode is definitely the best way to have miltia take on heavy infantry. Especially the Romans. The thing is you'll want your men to be in position, and have the enemy come to them. Because sometimes if they're all spread out, when you turn on guard mode, they'll form up facing the wrong way. Similarly, to keep them cohesive, don't run if you're planning to form up. Just walk slowly and then form up. Bonus of this is that Romans will throw all their pila (they're on fire at will). Yeah, it'll decimate the first unit, but if they leave, say, 2 units of romans pila-less, it'll be worth it. That and SOMEONE would die to those pila anyway ... >.> Whoever it is, the pila has a high attack + AP, so anyone will take some pretty horrendous casualties walking up to Romans or just in general fighting them - since they can throw pila while engaged in melee combat.

    As greek cities, I think you can train Athenian Marines, which are long ranged archers - so use those. Also, onagers are quickly trainable at Athens, so use those as well. There are certain tricks you can use with onagers and long-range archers that let you shred enemies who guard settlement walls. In some cases, killing maybe 16 out of 18 units in a settlement with just arrows (the AI tasks one unit to guard the city square, and the general unit tends to hang out there too). The greeks are rather well placed to kill Macedon and quickly start killing the Romans (especially with the settlement trick). Egypt, too.

    Speaking of archers, pinning enemies against a unit of militia and then shooting them in the back with archers works very well. It's my favorite way to kill Spartans, since they hated archers. Surprisingly, if the men are in an orderly formation and are charged by the spartans, they'll lose only a few people to them. Takes about 4-5 volleys of arrows to get the Spartans to rout. Romans die even easier - less armor.

    Another one is to have two or even three units gang up on one of the enemy - they'll all share losses, so they're more stable. To some extent, being able to do this is dependant on being able to catch an enemy half-stack with a full stack of yours. 3 units of militia can kill a unit of Spartans and take only 50% casualties (or 1.5 units worth). Probably because being stabbed in the back (or shield side) prevents the defender from using their defense skill.

    If you have BattleSurgery (get a Doctor/Chirgurgeon from an Academy +priest of Apollo) then it seems people who die to projectiles (ie: arrows or PILA) tend to heal a lot. Like - a while unit worth will heal. As a result, don't feel guilty if you lose some units to pila, or horse archers (put them out for the archers to target, while your own archers shoot them down) similarly for being shot at by your own guys - if they're pinning something good like triarii, a litle friendly fire isn't a real problem - and they might heal back anyway ...
    Last edited by Alavaria; October 10, 2009 at 07:40 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    A note, Alavaria; I like your idea of using guard mode against heavy infantry. What I personally would add to it would be to switch 'Guard Mode' off when your men start to lose formation; the hoplites will then surge forward and regain the ground they lost.

    <<Un collègue; un ami.>>

  13. #13

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Not necessarily. If they're in a dense formation, the might get more attacks in. Definitely, it is better to have a unit come from behind them (or standing behind them. Regaining ground isn't really important ... your men tire very little in guard mode, since they don't move much - whereas the enemy will hopefully get very tired. Also, even if the formation is being pushed through by the enemy, sometimes you won't take many losses. Especially in narrow streets, where the enemy can't start nibbling on the formation's flanks.

    More importantly, though, if you've got men coming from behind, sometimes the enemy will turn around and attack them instead of your unit that's on guard mode - in that case, definitely turn it off, as they're not "tanking" the enemy anymore.

    I should also add that hoplites from Athens/Corinth/Rhodes all have swords, which I believe are worse than their spears (even against infantry). So, I would suggest using those from Crete (or Pergamum/Syracuse).

    Spartans also have swords, which I would guess does less damage against infantry than their sword ... and seeing them use swords against cavalry is pretty sad.


    Militia in front of the phalanx hoplites is also very effective. The latter's spears are long enough to cover the back two ranks of the militia. I suggest putting militia 5-deep so so. The enemy has to kill or push the formation back 3 ranks, and then (after being bled a little and tired) the hoplites with long spears will be able to hold them off. With militia in between the speartip and the hoplite using it, this is very hard to break. Even spartans seem to have problems pushing through (though they can and have).

    Even funnier is if you have those merc hoplites that use pikes. Very tough to get through.
    Last edited by Alavaria; October 10, 2009 at 07:56 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoroshia View Post
    The Armoured Hoplites have a 'push-back' value of ~3; the Spartans have a 4, the highest non-cavalry value in the game. They can literally, when they impact the enemy, kill people by hitting them with their bodies. Three units of Spartans can, theoretically, take on an three times their number if used correctly. Of course, you have valid points. They are extremely expensive to recruit and maintain, they take 1 turn to recruit, and they can only be recruited in Sparta. Comes down to this, in my eyes; pay for two militia hoplites who will run when they hit 30 men left, or recruit Spartan hoplites who will never run; never retreat; never surrender, and looked wicked cool?
    My point is that you're not going to take over the world with Spartans or militia. It'll be up to the armoured hoplites, who also seem to have fairly bad stats. I think the whole Greek Cities faction is underpowered. The fact is that a unit of Chosen Axemen will give spartans a run for their money, they cost half as much, you can make nine a turn from a single city and they can be recruited almost anywhere.

    I edited them in my game to give hoplites a stat that makes them stick together and push (when out of guard mode) rather than spread out and fight individually. Makes them much more effective and realistic imo.

    For being a unit that is 'beyond elite' they are absolutely useless except for desparate home defence which is why I edited them. Also, I don't want to hear anything from anyone about "Spartans of this time frame were not so good." The game is about changing history and so a Sparta that regained it's former glory isn't going to retain crap hoplites haha.
    Last edited by keebz; October 10, 2009 at 10:54 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    I edited them in my game to give hoplites a stat that makes them stick together and push (when out of guard mode) rather than spread out and fight individually. Makes them much more effective and realistic imo.
    I'm interested in what you did, as I did something similar (I believe so, anyway).

    For being a unit that is 'beyond elite' they are absolutely useless except for desparate home defence which is why I edited them. Also, I don't want to hear anything from anyone about "Spartans of this time frame were not so good." The game is about changing history and so a Sparta that regained it's former glory isn't going to retain crap hoplites haha.
    Well, yes, they're beyond elite, but the 1 turn recruitment kills them. In my game, I made them a 0 turn recruitment unit but upped their cost and upkeep quite a tad.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    soldier greek_hoplite_spartan_pylos, 60, 0, 4, 0.18

    I think the 0.18 is the amount of separation allowed during combat or something.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Ah...do you have BI/ALEX?

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Nope. I'm trying to find the thread where I found out about this stat though.

    I've got some screenshots to show the difference though. Is yours something like this?

    http://i37.tinypic.com/6z0xuo.jpg
    They're trying to stick together with the 0.18 added

    http://i36.tinypic.com/29nte1d.jpg
    Without the extra figure they spread out and fight individually. They really do push the enemy back in this mode but they over extend themselves.
    Last edited by keebz; October 11, 2009 at 12:17 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by keebz View Post
    My point is that you're not going to take over the world with Spartans or militia. It'll be up to the armoured hoplites, who also seem to have fairly bad stats. I think the whole Greek Cities faction is underpowered.
    Spoiler for Mulling abt Militia
    Funnily enough, I've taken over the world as Syracuse using militia hoplites. Nothing quite beats the satisfaction of killing Romans by having 3 militia for each hastati, principe and triarii they have. Of course, it's slower since you don't start with the wonders nearby or a large economy. It's actually up to the archers to do all the heavy killing in field battles, though. In settlement assaults, it pretty frequently comes down to archery tricks or literally throwing fresh unit after fresh unit at the exhausted Romani. Even on VH battle, they'll eventually kill the Romans ...

    Just took Rome in a new campaign, it has 15K people in it, which means about, uh ... 3.5 full stacks of militia on Huge size. The Roman holdings north of Rome are just gonna be swept away in a tide of roman hoplites, lol. (1 general + 1 unit Syracusean Hoplites + 4 units Syracusean Marines + militia). I figure pushing aggressively will be simple since any random settlement with people can add new militia to replace the fallen ...

    I definitely hate the armored hoplites. I think they're overpriced compared to the city hoplites, and pretty high tier. Archers are key for killing, and I think the greek cities gets a good archer unit.

    I would suggest first securing south Greece with a fort to keep out the Macedonians and then digging into their territory. Second army would go north from Rhodes and start taking the Egyptian holdings along the coast. Third can handle Pergamum and probably head east into Seleucid land. Fourth would take Syracuse and Sicily then start eating Rome. Trickery with ships and a unit of onagers might help to capture a large city like Thessalonica quickly, which you can then use to spam the Macs down with.

    I want to fight Dacia, I'm told the falx and bastarnae troops shred militia like there's no tomorrow. I'm also told those are vulnerable to arrows, though ...


    Quote Originally Posted by keebz View Post
    soldier greek_hoplite_spartan_pylos, 60, 0, 4, 0.18
    I think the 0.18 is the amount of separation allowed during combat or something.
    Isn't that their radius? Smaller radius units fight a lot better as combat becomes 2 on 1 or something. Small circles vs large circles.

    It's usually 0.4 by default if you don't have anything ...

    From the Complete EDU Guide:
    soldier unit_model, soldiers, extras, mass (,radius,height)
    [radius](may not be visible) : Hidden attribute radius of the unit. The default value is 0.4. It's the area surrounding each single soldier that he "occupies" as the engine perceives it (not visually that is). Small radius makes a unit fight better, in that it allows soldiers to fight more closely to each other, resulting in more men of the small-radius unit fighting against fewer of the enemy one's.
    Basically, where there used to only stand 1 hoplite, you've made the unit able to jam 2 into the same space.

    Oddly enough, you kinda get the same effect if you put two units of militia right on top of one another (or if one of them backs into another because some, say, Spartans, are pushing them).
    Last edited by Alavaria; October 11, 2009 at 12:45 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Greek Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by Alavaria View Post
    The Roman holdings north of Rome are just gonna be swept away in a tide of roman hoplites, lol.
    Made me laugh
    Isn't that their radius? Smaller radius units fight a lot better as combat becomes 2 on 1 or something. Small circles vs large circles.

    That's it. No units have a radius set in this mod as far as I've seen and I missed it from XGM.

    I forgot the obligatory 300 shot
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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