Native Names Project for BC - v0.9 RELEASED

[wudang_clown]

First stage of my replacement is mainly done. I mean: IMO it is ready to use without fundamental doubts. There are still few things to check. I will try to confirm some of the names, but I move to the second stage now.

Here's the list of what I've managed to learn from different sources:

• ABBASIDS--- Al-Khilafah
• Great Seljuks--- Saljūqiān
• Turkish Sultanate--- Saljūqiān-e Rum
• KHWAREZM--- Khwārezmshāhiān
• OMAN--- Imamat 'Uman (although 'Uman was ruled by hereditary dynasty back then)
• SINDH--- Silsilah-e-Sumro
• KOJ--- Regnum Hierosolimitanum
• ROMANS--- Basileia ton Rhomaion
• AYYUBIDS--- Al-Ayyubiyyun
• GHAZNI--- Ghāznaviān
• GHORIDS--- Shansabani
• CUMANS--- Qıpsaq Kaganlıgı
• RAJPUTS--- Solanki Rajvansh
• MAKURIA--- Malikat al-Muqurra (despite my efforts I failed in finding native name for Makuria; I know that Greek was in extensive use then, so the name could be in Greek: "Basileia X" or something; but the truth is that there was also Old Nubian in official use; temporarily I've picked Arabic name)
• ARMENIA--- Giligiov Haigagan Takavorutiun
• GEORGIA--- Saqartvelos Samepo
• MONGOLS--- Ikh Mongol Uls

I've decided to go on with next stage. I will try to replace all English names and terms like "army", "general", etc. that show up in the tooltips (except "technical" information) and in the character screen (like "King of", "Emperor", "Crown Prince" etc.). I will try to give them Arabic, Greek, Hindu etc. equivalents. I will post my work systematically to submit it for discussion - I don't know these languages, so I count on you, my friends, and your critical remarks!

Feel free to comment, advice, criticize etc.

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Here's the 0.9v. Enjoy.

Credits: Aqua, Boztorgai_Khan, Hraes, Labrado, Salvatorel. Reps for them.

I hope I didn't forget anyone.

!!IMPORTANT!!
For some reason, NNP "activates" a bug in descr_strat.txt: there are four Saljuq characters named "Sanjar". I have no idea why the original descr_strat works fine, without giving any initial error although there are multiplied names, and why the file won't work when NNP is installed. Anyway, I'm providing fixed descr_strat.txt. So, if anyone is having a problem with starting a campaign with NNP installed, just apply the file and play.

[Cromagnon2]

I wonder what Regnum Hierosolimitanum for KOJ means, 'Kingdom of Herodus Limited'? :b No serious.

Infact i wonder what most of them mean

[wudang_clown]

That's correct Latin name of the state. Seriously.

[Cromagnon2]

Wow! Good guess thanks

[wudang_clown]

Sorry, I wanted to say something different. I've thought you are ironic, and that you think 'Hierosolimitanum' is incorrect Latin spelling or something. It's proper spelling, but it doesn't mean 'Herodus Limited'.

[Raugnar]

As far as I rememer:

CUMANS Dasht-i Qipchaq - The Kipchakian Steppe

ROMANS Basileía ton Rhomaíon - The Empire of Romans (Since there weren't such a name as Byzantium in history, it's mostly made by modern historians. And even the "empire" is not right - read a bit about the starting meanings of "Imperator" and ''princeps")
- The full style of the Emperor was finalized in the phrase "X, in Christ the God faithful Emperor and Autocrat of the Romans" (Greek:"Χ, en Christō tō Theō pistós Basileus kai Autokratōr Rhōmaíōn").
- The Sassanid persian king was referred to as Megas Basileus (Great King) or Basileus Basileōn, a translation of the Persian title Šāhanšāh ("King of Kings")
(Bazilevs Heraclius took the this new title after a victorious campaign against them - just before the Islamic Conquer)


AYYUBIDS Eyyubiyun - I am a bit lazy for now to search further, but as I recently read, "Ayyub" is an Islamic translation of Hebrew (Iov/Job). So the full name of Saladin is Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb - something like "Devout in faith Joseph, son of Job"

I love this digging))

[Cromagnon2]

@Wudang. No, no reason for being ironic. Read the post by Raugnar, that is what i mean. What the actual translation in its native language means.
Btw, you have Cumans listed, didn't you mean Kypchaks.

@Raugnar. Thank you +rep. I would have thought 'Basileía ton Rhomaíon' would mean 'The Roman Church' as Basileia, Basilicum?

[Raugnar]

No, "Basileus" originally was a title in Ancient Greece (before Persian wars, somewhere like XV-XI century B. C.).
It meaning was some kind of a local tribe chief, so not that great.)
The etymology of basileus is unclear. The Mycenaean form was gwasileus ( qa-si-re-u), denoting some sort of court official or local chieftain, but not an actual king. Most linguists assume that it is a non-Greek word that was adopted by Bronze Age)

@Raugnar. Thank you +rep. I would have thought 'Basileía ton Rhomaíon' would mean 'The Roman Church' as Basileia, Basilicum?

It's probably because of this:
At Athens, the Archon basileus was one of the ten archons, magistrates selected by lot. Of these ten, the archon eponymos, the polemarch and the basileus divided the powers of Athens' ancient kings, with the basileus overseeing religious rites and homicide cases. His wife had to marry Dionysus at the Anthesteria. Similar vestigial offices called basileus existed in other Greek city-states.

+updated a bit the upper post on full Bazilevs title.

[Cromagnon2]

As far as I rememer:

ROMANS Basileía ton Rhomaíon - The Empire of Romans (Since there weren't such a name as Byzantium in history, it's mostly made by modern historians.

Really? How was the city called before the Emperor Constantine then?

No, "Basileus" originally was a title in Ancient Greece (before Persian wars, somewhere like IX - VII century B. C.).
It meaning was some kind of a local tribe chief, so not that great.)
The etymology of basileus is unclear. The Mycenaean form was gwasileus ( qa-si-re-u), denoting some sort of court official or local chieftain, but not an actual king. Most linguists assume that it is a non-Greek word that was adopted by Bronze Age)

I love information from the early bronze age

[Raugnar]

Really? How was the city called before the Emperor Constantine then?

I ment as a state, for yes, before Constantinople there were Byzantium (settled in the early days of Greek colonial expansion, probably around 671-662 BC).
My bad

[Cromagnon2]

I ment as a state, for yes, before Constantinople there were Byzantium (settled in the early days of Greek colonial expansion, probably around 671-662 BC).
My bad

You are good at this. You probably should do some research for this mod if the team decides to add more factions

[Raugnar]

That was just Wiki quotes, so not so good)

I'm just a bit intrested in subject + studying history + planning to make a work on one aspect of Muslim world so it's kind of fun

[Bugout]

ABBASIDS al-Khilafah al-Abbasiyyah (I've found it on some translation forum, I guess it's the modern name?)
Great Seljuks Dawlat-i Saljuqian (that's in Persian? I guess Seljuk were using Persian as an official language?)
Turkish Sultanate Saljuqian-i Rum (as above)
KHWAREZM Khwarezmshahian
OMAN Imamat 'Uman (it's the name of modern Imamate, I couldn't find anything else. Is it even proper for medieval state?)
SINDH Sumra (I didn't find 'Malikate of Sindh' anywhere, so that's my choice, just the name of the ruling dynasty)
KOJ Regnum Hierosolimitanum
ROMANS Basileía ton Rhomaíon
AYYUBIDS al-Ayyubiyun
GHAZNI Dawlat-i Ghazneviyan (that's my construction based on analogy to 'Dawlat-i Saljuqian'. Is it proper?)
GHORIDS Shansabani
CUMANS Dasht-i Qipchaq, Kipchaklar (first is Arabic name, second is in Turkish. Which one to choose?)
RAJPUTS Solanki-Chalukya, I have no idea how to name that state in hindi (?). Someone? Though I guess it can be only: Solanki.
MAKURIA al-Muqurra (It's Arabic, because I didn't find any transliteration of Makuria's Old Nubian name...)
ARMENIA Giligiov Haigagan Takavorutiun
GEORGIA Sakartvelo
MONGOLS Ikh Mongol Uls (I have my doubts on this one, since I guess it's a modern name)

As far as the Arabic names go the Abbasids' and Omanis' are correct.

The Kypchak name you have is not Arabic as the Arabs called them Qumani (I am thinking its Persian) so the Arabic would be Ahl or Qaba'il Al-Cumani but you would probably want to go with the Turkic name.

The Ayyubid state was called Al-Dawlat Al-Ayyubiyyah or Sultanah Al-Misr.

You could add Mamlikah in front of Al-Muqurrah to say Kingdom of Makuria.

I don't know what the Sindi name would be but in Arabic it was called Walayat Al-Sind when it was under the Abbasids.

[wudang_clown]

Raugnar, Bugout, many thanks, guys! Especially for you Bugout, for Arabic names. I will search more for Cumans and Sindh, and then I will decide what names to use.

@Cromagnon, there's an article on Wiki about the meaning of the name 'Yerushalaim' and it's derivative names. As for difference between Cumans and Kypchacks, there's none except of names.

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

With the Ayyubids, the actual dynasty name sounds much cooler. But when you write it, would it be Ad-Dawlat Al-Ayyubiyyah? I know letter for letter it's Al but then people would be pronouncing it wrong. Just curious since I am new to the language and trying to get everything straight.

[Cromagnon2]

@Cromagnon, there's an article on Wiki about the meaning of the name 'Yerushalaim' and it's derivative names. As for difference between Cumans and Kypchacks, there's none except of names.

Thank you

from wiki:

The Semitic root of the name "Jerusalem" is sometimes thought to be "s-l-m" meaning peace,[17] harmony or completeness. A city called Rušalimum or Urušalimum appears in ancient Egyptian records as one of the first references to Jerusalem.

Ironically it is one of the cities with the most tension through history.

About the Cumans, you are right, i thought they inhabited a more northern region and the Kypchaks a more southern region

It is a known fact that the Cumans called themselves "Kipçak", but the origin of this word is not clear. Several sources have tried to explain this, Olzhas Suleimenov in his book Az i Ya proposes the theory that the word "kipçak" came from their tribal tamga (sign or emblem) that is represented by two sticks or two knives (iki pıçak). The modern tamga of the Qıpşaq tribe among the Kazakhs looks like two sticks but it is called "qos alıp" (double alīf). This name probably was changed due to islamisation.

[wudang_clown]

With the Ayyubids, the actual dynasty name sounds much cooler. But when you write it, would it be Ad-Dawlat Al-Ayyubiyyah?

I'm sorry, I have no idea...

About the Cumans, you are right, i thought they inhabited a more northern region and the Kypchaks a more southern region

Citation you've posted is an argument for leaving the 'Kipchaklar' name...

[Bugout]

With the Ayyubids, the actual dynasty name sounds much cooler. But when you write it, would it be Ad-Dawlat Al-Ayyubiyyah? I know letter for letter it's Al but then people would be pronouncing it wrong. Just curious since I am new to the language and trying to get everything straight.

That is of course correct for pronunciation because of the sun letter overriding the L, however in writing it is customary to transliterate letter for letter and leave it as al-dawlat, assuming I suppose that someone familiar with Arabic would know their sun letters from their moon letters as far as pronouncing it goes.

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

Think the confusion over this explains why there's Salah al-Din and Salah ad-Din floating around

[wudang_clown]

It's good to see you, fuzz and Bugout, discussing the matter, I'm learning something new.

Does anyone here knows Turkish and/or Persian enough to correct other names?