Help For Historically Accurate Settlement And Region Names Required

[Space_Ed]

I think the title pretty much says it all. We have finalised the settlement list and province list and I have been given the task of finalising the list with the names authentic to the language of the area in the medieval period. So as an example we have:

Reference Name / Native name 1080 / Region Name 1080

London Lunden Eastsexe (In England)
Canterbury Cantwareburh Cent & Sudsexe (In England)
Cordoba Qurtuba Qurtuba (Arabic name for the place in Spain)
Inverness Inbhir Nis Fionn (in Scotland)
Rennes Roazhon Breizh (in France)

It's quite a tricky task and is taking quite a while. Also another thing we are aiming to do is have alternate names for places if they are taken by another culture. We have done this for the holy lands i.e. Jerusalem etc and for Spain e.g. Qurtuba above becomes Cordoba if the christians take it and Santiago de Compostela becomes the arabic name for it as the arabs at the time called it (can't remember what it is off the top of my head).

So yes basically it would be good if anyone who knows what they are talking about would volunteer and help with this job. If you are interested in becoming a member of the team specifically to help out with this task message me first before you contact anyone else.

Thanks in advance.

[Sab99]

Maybe it is an idea to put the list of settlements here first?
Or is that something that you guys would like to keep private, i.e. members of the team?

[Space_Ed]

Maybe it is an idea to put the list of settlements here first?
Or is that something that you guys would like to keep private, i.e. members of the team?

Er well I think you can see the settlements on the interactive map thing that was put up and yeah I think they'd rather keep the finalised list quiet until an official preview or the game is released. I don't want to put my work in progress list up yet because it is likely a lot of the names will change a few times until it is finished. I'd rather have one or two people who know what they are talking about than a load of people throwing in names at random.

[Monthy]

Poland:

Name / native / region / province / native province name

Szczecin / Szczecin / Rebel / West Pomerania / Pomorze zachodnie
Gdansk / Gdańsk / Rebel / Pomerania / Pomorze
Poznan / Poznań / Poland / Greater Poland / Wielkopolska
Plock / Płock / Poland / Masovia / Mazowsze
Wroclaw / Wrocław / Poland / Silesia / Śląsk
Krakow / Kraków / Poland / Lower Poland / Małopolska

City names can be changed only in case of seizure of Germany. Czech or Rus names are very similar.

Szczecin - Stettin
Gdansk - Danzig
Poznan - Posen
Plock - Plock
Wroclaw - Breslau
Krakow - this will never hapend!

Do you collect information about the number of urban dwellers in 1080 ?

[Space_Ed]

Do you collect information about the number of urban dwellers in 1080 ?

Thanks I will look at your information carefully when I get to this part of the world. Currently I am on western europe.

Yeah there is information on the number of urban dwellers in 1080 in the research archives for the mod. I personally do not because they have already collected information like this but it is factors such as these that have helped determine which settlements have been selected.

[Space_Ed]

Poland:

Name / native / region / province / native province name

Szczecin / Szczecin / Rebel / West Pomerania / Pomorze zachodnie
Gdansk / Gdańsk / Rebel / Pomerania / Pomorze
Poznan / Poznań / Poland / Greater Poland / Wielkopolska
Plock / Płock / Poland / Masovia / Mazowsze
Wroclaw / Wrocław / Poland / Silesia / Śląsk
Krakow / Kraków / Poland / Lower Poland / Małopolska

City names can be changed only in case of seizure of Germany. Czech or Rus names are very similar.

Szczecin - Stettin
Gdansk - Danzig
Poznan - Posen
Plock - Plock
Wroclaw - Breslau
Krakow - this will never hapend!

Okay I just had a quick look and we already have these names. We need them in the medieval forms.

[Monthy]

Okay I just had a quick look and we already have these names. We need them in the medieval forms.

Hmm if I understand You correctly... this city names was that same in 1080 as today. Nothing was change.

[Lemming69]

seeing as its in 1080 i would suggest you do not use the saxon names for the english towns and regions... although i guess about 90 percent of england was saxon people during the time

[Monthy]

This is XIV c. data but mayby will help:

Polish History in numbers. Population, territory, CSO, Wa-wa 1993 (based on: I. Gieysztorowa, Population, in: Encyclopaedia of the history of the Polish economy to 1945, Volume 1, Wa-wa, 1981, p. 431):

Year 1340:

Territory:

Total - 145.600 kilometers square

Great Poland - 57.900 kilometers square
Lower Poland - 55.900 kilometers square
Masovia- 31.800 kilometers square

Population:

Total - 1,300,000 (an average of 9 per sq km)

Great Poland - 600.000 (an average of 10 per sq km)
Lower Poland - 400.000 (an average of 8 per sq km)
Masovia - 300.000 (an average of 8 per sq km)
Pomerania - 130.000

Member of the Order in Prussia and Livonia - 750.000 - 800.000 people
including: (Prussia proper around 270 000, Chełmno approximately 80 000, , Livonia, approximately 250 000-300 000).

[Monthy]

Interesting article on the demographic situation in Poland in the twelfth century.

Article from the following page translated by Google. May contain grammatical errors:
http://historia.na6.pl/osadnictwo_w_...iecznej_polsce



In the twelfth century there was a large difference between the population of eastern and western Europe. In the west, the population grew faster than in the east, and land for the population was less. The average population density in the early Piast monarchy twelfth century is estimated at 5 to 6 people per km ², and in Russia it was even smaller. By contrast, in France, Germany and Italy, population in some regions, there were up to 20 people per km ². In the agricultural society, the relative congestion was felt very badly because there was land under cultivation. Western Europe's population began to be sought for each seat in the east. This process appeared particularly strong in Germany. The German population settled primarily on the shores of the Baltic Sea.

In Poland, the period of feudal disintegration is a period of intense internal colonization. Settlement in the Piast monarchy supported both the princes and lords, because the land owners were profitable only when it was inhabited and cultivated. To encourage newcomers to settle, proposed settlements on the same basis as in Western Europe. These principles were called in Poland under German law. Between the owner of the land and settlers written up a contract. Settlers generally represented by the so-called. ambush. Franklin received the fief of land use. Ian was a long measure of space. Ian played a smaller, called Chelmno, which had approximately 16.8 hectares and Ian larger, called the Franconian, or approximately 24.2 hectares. Ian was more prevalent lower. In return, you have provided in-kind tribute set. Often also undertook to free odpracowania few days in the field of the owner. Behaved, however, the personal freedom the right to inherit land utilized. The legal status of the settlers were often better than the local population but also many local settlements ran structured in accordance with German law. Villages deposited in the German law had self-government, consisting of a village elder (the German Schultheiss) and the judicial bench. Soltys stayed mostly ambush, or organizer invested in the settlement. After the office is usually fulfilled the heredity of his successor. Soltys received several fiefs of land. Collect rents for you from all the settlers, and the sixth part of the fetch for themselves. As chairman of the judicial bench also received a third of the legal penalties. He also had a right to have stalls, a slaughterhouse or a mill. He was nevertheless obliged to riding military service. For several early years are necessary to land the settlers were exempt from the services provided to you. This period was called wolnizną. Keep in mind the fact that the settlement agreement had to be beneficial for both parties, being in fact a long-term investment. Owners often arbitrarily shorten the time contrary to the findings of the contract.

In the twelfth and thirteenth centuries to promote the use of the Polish lands new, more efficient methods of land cultivation. Dwupolówkę replaced traditional trójpolówką. Franklin began to have an excess of grain, which they could sell on the open market and thereby acquire crafts. Prevail conditions conducive to the development of commodity economy - money and the emergence of cities.

Especially numerous locations of cities occurred in the thirteenth century. Frequently they were created on site of existing settlements. A model for cities invested in Silesia, Wielkopolska and in the Cracow region of Silesia was Wednesday, and for the Pomerania and Mazovia - Chelmno. Handling, thus defining the law or the law średzki Chelmno. His base was in force in northern Germany, Magdeburg law, then adapted to local conditions. Location of the city resemble the establishment of the village. Included an ambush on behalf of the settlers agreement with the owner of the land, and later became the hereditary mayor. There was a judicial bench. Over time, a decisive role in the life of the cities began to play-offs will determine the city council and its mayor, and the office of mayor underwent gradual liquidation. At the end of the thirteenth century the Piast monarchy has worked in about 100 centers of urban character. Belonged to the largest cities Wroclaw and Krakow. In the twelfth and thirteenth centuries in the Piast monarchy and settled in the Jewish population. Sizes shares colonization is difficult to determine due to lack of resources. At the beginning of the fourteenth century the population of the Piast monarchy has risen to about 8 people per km ². This was partly the result of the settlement shares and partly by natural increase of the local population. Carried out in the twelfth and thirteenth century colonization of the interior received very positively to the economic development of the country, but this process from the Polish point of view was not always beneficial. Typically German settlers quickly assimilated in the Polish neighborhood, but in some regions of Silesia and Pomerania large influx of settlers meant that the Polish population of these areas was in the fourteenth century in the minority, and started to Germanization. Succumbed to the influence of German culture and some of the princes. The relationship between these areas with the rest of the lands of the Piast dynasty began to relax. Locations of towns and villages were in fact part of the same process and are based on a similar procedure. Varied only the scale of investment and the nature of the created medium.

Autor: Roman Przybylski

[Space_Ed]

seeing as its in 1080 i would suggest you do not use the saxon names for the english towns and regions... although i guess about 90 percent of england was saxon people during the time

We have decided to name settlements what the locals would have called them. There has been much discussion specifically about England and it was decided as the anglo-saxon names were the most prevalent at the time and that as it was the anglo-saxon names that evolved into their current ones and not the latin-norman versions then it makes sense to have the anglo-saxon names.

[Space_Ed]

Monthy I will find out once I get to Poland if the names havn't changed since the middle ages so you could well be right. As for the other information, it is not particularly relevant to me, however if you want to join the team and help with input I suggest you contact Hross and tell him how you might be able to help out. He has started quite a few of the threads on here so you should be able to find him easily.

[spanish_emperor]

Here are some Cities:

Balansiya - València
Ishbiliya - Sevilla
Saraqusta - Zaragoza
Hisn Garnata - Granada
Al-'Ishbūnah or al-Lixbûnâ - Lisboa
Burtuqal - Porto
la'a Ma-anxa - La Mancha (region of toledo)
Tulaytulah - Toledo
Batalyaws - Badajoz
Kulūmriyya - Coimbra
Silb - Silves
Mursiya - Murcia
Sebta - Ceuta
Madina Mayurqa - Ciutat de Mallorca (Palma)
Além-Tejo - Alentejo [Province Coimbra]
Al Gharb - Algarve [Province Silves or Badajoz]

[Giorgios]

Here's some of the settlements for Byzantium

DOTS interactive map name/Native Name/English province name/Native province name

Constantinople/Konstantinoupolis/Thrace/Thrakē
Varna/Varna/Paristrion/Paradounabion
Edirne/Adrianoupolis/Macedonia/Makedonia
Thessaloniki/Thessaloniki/Thessalonica/Thessalonikē
Dyrrachium/Dyrrachion/Dyrrachium/Dyrrachion
Ochryda/Achrida/Ohrid/Ohrid
Nicopolis/Nikopolis/Nicopolis/Nikopolis
Iraklion/Chandax/Crete/Krētē

I'll do more sometime soon.

[Graf Nacht]

What alphabet do you plan to use for East Slavic names, Latin or Cyrillic?

[Space_Ed]

Here are some Cities:

Balansiya - València
Ishbiliya - Sevilla
Saraqusta - Zaragoza
Hisn Garnata - Granada
Al-'Ishbūnah or al-Lixbûnâ - Lisboa
Burtuqal - Porto
la'a Ma-anxa - La Mancha (region of toledo)
Tulaytulah - Toledo
Batalyaws - Badajoz
Kulūmriyya - Coimbra
Silb - Silves
Mursiya - Murcia
Sebta - Ceuta
Madina Mayurqa - Ciutat de Mallorca (Palma)
Além-Tejo - Alentejo [Province Coimbra]
Al Gharb - Algarve [Province Silves or Badajoz]

Thanks we already had most of this but not all of it. Its likely you'll see Al-'Ishbūnah, La Mancha and maybe some others uve suggested in the game. Most of the rest we already had although with occasionally slightly different spelling. Thanks for the input and keep it up if you've got more of that.

[Space_Ed]

What alphabet do you plan to use for East Slavic names, Latin or Cyrillic?

Latin. I would have liked to use native script like arabic and greek etc but we are using the essential latin script for everything although we are having names like Suðreyjar og Norðreyjar and Płock. So not just the classical latin script.

[Space_Ed]

Here's some of the settlements for Byzantium

DOTS interactive map name/Native Name/English province name/Native province name

Constantinople/Konstantinoupolis/Thrace/Thrakē
Varna/Varna/Paristrion/Paradounabion
Edirne/Adrianoupolis/Macedonia/Makedonia
Thessaloniki/Thessaloniki/Thessalonica/Thessalonikē
Dyrrachium/Dyrrachion/Dyrrachium/Dyrrachion
Ochryda/Achrida/Ohrid/Ohrid
Nicopolis/Nikopolis/Nicopolis/Nikopolis
Iraklion/Chandax/Crete/Krētē

I'll do more sometime soon.

Thanks. Yeah put it up

[Hengest]

Maybe it is an idea to put the list of settlements here first?
Or is that something that you guys would like to keep private, i.e. members of the team?

http://dots.axesgame.com/map/
as announced here
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=281400

[PedroL]

Thanks we already had most of this but not all of it. Its likely you'll see Al-'Ishbūnah, La Mancha and maybe some others uve suggested in the game. Most of the rest we already had although with occasionally slightly different spelling. Thanks for the input and keep it up if you've got more of that.

Lisboa ← Lisboa (por.) ← al-Ishbunah (ár.) ← Ulishbona (visgót.) ← Olisippo (lat.) ← Olissipona (gr.) ← Lisso, Lucio, Tajo + –bona,
(Lisboa al-Ushbunah (الأشبونة) or al-Lishbuna (لشبونة))

Braga ← Bracara Augusta (lat.) ← bracari, etnia celtic,

Coimbra ← Conimbriga, Coniumbriga (lat.) ← conii, etnia celtic + –briga, colina (Hill)

Galicia ← gallego ← gallaecus (lat.) ← galo: región de España (Region of Spain)

Silves - as-Shilb (شلب)

Porto Burtuqal (برتقال), or, Ūbūrtū (أوبورتو)

Coimbra al-Qulumriyya (قلمريّة), or Kuwīmbrā (كويمبرا)