Making Historical Battles

[Wundai]

Tried your suggestions mate, even on locations where there are cities on the campaign map, to no avail I'm afraid

BUT Bardo I am afraid there is something I totally forgot to tell you.

When I create a settlement with victory conditions,armies etc. etc. and try to start the battle it gives this error:
Script error in SHOGUN_NEW/data/world/maps/battle/custom/Settlementas/descr_battle.txt, at line 94, column 1
Trying to flag a general as sieging an non existant settlement.

What I did EVERY time to prevent this message from coming, was deleting the "Sieging" command in the descr_battle.txt, and then the battle loads but without the buildings, only the layers.
Sorry I didn't mention this before, its actually quite important, what if by removing the "Sieging" line in the descr_battle.txt does something to the buildings?
And if I should not remove the "Sieging" line what should I add to it, to make it work, any idea's?

[Bardo]

I also need to delete this "sieging" flag to avoid that same error, it is included in the tutorial. And I have not found any way to play a siege battle unless you remove this "sieging" word. I have no idea how vanilla siege battles does work this way.

About your problems with buildings, it might be the way the settlement have been designed in your mod, it might be related to overlay and underlay of the city. It is curious, because we are tring to find a way to create a dwarven city under the ground and you have got it unintentionally
I have no idea how did you placed the wall under the ground, it always appear over the ground in all my tests.

I don't have other ideas, sorry, I'm just curious to know if my method (removing map.wfc) works if you use a vanilla settlement in your mod? Then you can know for sure if the difference is caused by the custom city or by the mod itself.

[Wundai]

Yes, yes indeed I can at least try it in the vanilla BI game to limit down the problem factors.

Well all in all thank you for your help, I'll try wrestling with the problem some more

Oh btqw not in your last post, but the post before that. You said the way you did it was create a settlement then remove the map.wfc and start the battle. I assume you also meant creating units with siege equipment and victory condition etc right?

Since I tried the method of only implementing the settlement, then remove the map.wfc but when i try to start the HB it just says "pick an item from the list" like its not being seen in the "pick HB menu"

[Wundai]

Hey some interesting things to note.

I made a vanilla settlement battle and it loaded just fine.
What was especially strange, was that you DON'T have to remove the Sieging command in the desc_strat.txt in vanilla HB's. It just loads fine.

Another thing, when I made a battle with my mod and NOT removed the sieging line, ofcourse the battle wouldn't load, BUT when loading the editor again the Buildings Were Still at their good original places.

This leads me to conclude I shoul somehow make the battle work with the sieging line intact. And Bardo you must have been right about making a city HB on the exact same location as the settlement exists on the Campaign map.

So there are a few commands in the descr_strat.txt that go about the placement of settlement.

(for example the:
tile 52 105
and
battle_pos 96.000 222.949 96.000 rotation_0 0
and
battle 52, 105(in the battle section)

I see the same locational numbers in the descr_regions.txt and the descr_battle.txt I think I have to input a number from the descr_regions.txt into the strat.txt to make it work, but which value(s)?

In your work for LOTR:TW when you made Minas Tirith in a HB, you must have taken the position Minas Tirith had on the campaign map, do you know a little more about positions you might be willing to share?

[Wundai]

Okay ehm sorry for the triple post...but it works....

I'm not sure why since it gaves errors a few times and just stopped.

What I did is use HouseOfHams Settlement Locator and pick a settlement location on the Campmap, loaded it in, first nothing changed(i couldnt even load the battle without sieging line)
Both armies have the FE_non_playable attribute but I do have them both Playable in the top menu.
The sieging line is removed now, and I also deleted a blank line between the units and the siege_equipment.
Still one lesson though, the battle works now and the A.I. very neatly attacks my settlement with his ladder which is good. But FE_non_playable does not have to be removed it seems

Well I'm fearful of changing the descr_strat.txt ever again after this
Thanks for all your help in any way Bardo I'll keep checking this thread to see what you find out yourself, and I'll post my observations if its useful.

[Bardo]

It is hard to add information about siege battles since my experience is similar than you: it seems same commands works different at different siege battle, and it is hard to discover the general rules. Though I would be glad to add to the tutorial any information you discover.

I have also seen the command "sieging" does work in vanilla RTW, but I have been unable to use it in our mod, and I have seen other people, like MasterofNone also needed to remove this word in his HBs.

About your first question, yes, my fault while explaining it. I would need a working Historical battle, then to add the settlement, then to give siege engines to attacker, and to remove the sieging flag.
And then, when all is finished it is when I remove the map.wfc. Btw, the placement of the city in battle sometimes is moved a bit when I remove the map.wfc and I need to adjust the deployment area of defenders until they fit the walls again.

About the line "battle_pos 96.000 222.949 96.000 rotation_0 0", I think the value you use in campaign (descr_strat) does not affect historical battles, but only campaign battles.
When I say you to try to place the historical battle in the same possition than city in campaign, I mean the coordinates of the tile, as you have said using HouseOfHams Settlement Locator, or watching it at descr_regions or descr_strat, but you do not need to modify those files.

with Alexander expansion, the descr_strat file read by the historicla battles is placed at:
\data\world\maps\campaign\Battlefields\descr_strat.txt
I'm not sure which descr_strat is used when you play BI or RomeTW, but I guess it must be the vanilla campaign folder. If you discover it please tell me.

So, have you been able to play the battle without map.wfc file? If so, please tell me what do you think make it work.
Also, tell me if you discover how to play without removing "sieging" word, though I have verified that the behavior of AI in siege battles is the same with or without this flag. You will see the defender is non playable in all vanilla HB. When I mod those vanilla HB to allow the player to choose the defender, there are the same problems of additional siege engines appearing for no reason, and the AI finds it hard to perform the siege, same than when you remove "sieging".

I have limited internet connection these days, but I'll try to watch this topic in case you have some other questions where i could help you.

[Wundai]

Okay mate Limited internet connection and an abundant Christmas I assume

Lets see, reaction on your last post:
- No I also have to remove the Sieging command still as with it, the battle will not load.
- I have actually not removed the map.wfc at all yet with my latest battle and it actually works fine.
- I am the defender in my Siege battle and the Attacker is the A.I. in my case only ladders attack my walls, I want it that way since it fits the mod.
One strange thing is I have 2 attacking armies, one has 2 ladders the other has 3 ladders, but the army with 3 ladders changes ingame so that EVERY unit has a ladder, I don't know why this happens, as you have seen the same problem.
- The A.I. attacks me pretty good actually, he sets his ladders to the wall and attacks from 2 sides and even takes the settlement if I'm not careful.
- I tried a reinforcement army(A.I.) for myself to enter the battle after 5 minutes, it DOES but it just stands still, doing nothing.
- When I give no army the option to "deploy" the battle starts and ALL the ladders are stuck in my wall () so I am forced to give all armies the deploy option
- In BI the game uses the desc_strat.txt from the campaign (in the base folder) I also added a Battlefields folder like in Alexander but the game does NOT use this.


All in all Bardo my Siege Battle works good, I defend, the A.I. Attacks.
And I hope my findings help you a bit with the tutorial, unfortunatly I can't CHANGE the battle anymore, as soon as I load the battle in the Editor, I lose all buildings. Almost like the game gave me one chance to make the battle and after that I get the same problem again ( maybe, but I'm not sure, I can edit the battle when putting the siege line back in )
-

[Bardo]

Thank you for the info, I'm glad you were able to get the battle working.

- I tried a reinforcement army(A.I.) for myself to enter the battle after 5 minutes, it DOES but it just stands still, doing nothing.

I think I know the solution for this one: try changing the "general" to a be a "named character"

For some reason, reinforcements commnaded by generals get stuck in siege battles when they arrive, while they act properly if named characters... I think I added it to my tutorial, hidden somewhere.

unfortunatly I can't CHANGE the battle anymore, as soon as I load the battle in the Editor, I lose all buildings. Almost like the game gave me one chance to make the battle and after that I get the same problem again ( maybe, but I'm not sure, I can edit the battle when putting the siege line back in )

I think I also know the solution for this one, since the same has happened to me when I modded manually the placement of the city in the descr_battle file.
You can test to create a new battle with the editor, in the same map tile, then to add the same city at the same position you placed it for your working battle (moving the green area in the editor). Once done, save your "new-battle" in a new folder (you don't need to add anything else: no armies nor victory conditions), make a back-up of your "working-battle" and try this:

1- copy the line "battle_pos" from your new-battle to your working-battle (in descr_battle.txt):
For example: "battle_pos 96.000 222.949 96.000 rotation_0 0"

2- copy the file map.wfc from your new-battle to your working-battle

And you should be able to edit your working-battle again. I think the problem is caused when the coordinates in the "battle_pos" line do not represent the position of the city saved into the map.wfc file.

[Wundai]

Hey Thanks, I will try this when I get the time between modding other things to the game

[drogoth232]

hey, anyone know how to add generals, not captains into the historical battles? I wanted to add the Saladin model from Medieval II Kingdoms Total War into the battle, but could not. None the less I am satisifed with just a general. also how to change general names. Im trying to make a historical battle about first crusade.

For example for Holy Roman Empire, there was Godfrey of Boullion, but when i go under the faction HRE to select Captain names, Godfrey is only for France..., how can I change that? Also there isnt any descr_strat or anything like that. I also tried to change the name of the general in the descr_battle thingy.

[Bardo]

These are the 3 files needed to add new names:
descr_names.txt
descr_names_lookup.txt
text/names.txt

To convert a general into a named character you can open the descr_battle.txt and to change the word "general" by "named character". For example:
character Imrahil, named character, age 34, , x 149, y 80

If the name already exists in other faction, you can use the word "sub_faction" followed by the original faction of the name, to use it in a different faction. For example:
character sub_faction scythia, Theoden, named character, age 52, , x 149, y 80

[drogoth232]

Thanks but I need to say something. I cant find the first three files that you listed. They are not there in the "data" folder. I have already modded the game years ago. After reinstalling after a crash I never found it again. Is there any way, I could get them again without reinstallation, or is that regular?

[Wundai]

Are you two sure you are talking about the same game?

[drogoth232]

Yes Medieval II Total War Kingdoms Rome Total War Alexander. The example he gave was for Third Age Total War Lord of the Rings Total War. Just to make sure, do I have to unpack my files?

[Bardo]

Nop, this tutorial is about Rome TW, and the examples are from LOTR-TW.
MTW2 is similar, but I have never modded it, I don't think my suggestions can help you there, sorry.

[drogoth232]

Oh... Well thanks for all the help.

I figured out what it is so yeah I got it. Also where can you add new units to the battle editor? For example I make a new unit and I want to enable it in Battle Editor. Is it possible or do I have to leave it be?

[Bardo]

If the unit is properly added, it should appear automatically in the list of available units into the editor, as well as new character names you add.
There are tutorials arround here about how to add a unit.

[Ramashan]

I'm not sure I've followed this thread properly, but if I'm understanding Wundai properly he wants to put a custom settlement into a historical battle using the Battle Editor? If I'm wrong, stop me here.

I've done this several times. But, I've had to code the custom settlement into the vanilla game, then I did the editing, and then copied the custom tile into the mod folder. I'm not sure if that helps or if its a round about way that I got it to work. But i have several custom tiles with custom settlement plans in them in my mod. I have not tried a Historical Battle, so I'm not sure if it applies.

[Wundai]

Oh but it worked, settlements works fine now in HB of Ran No Jidai, problem was solved, it had something to do with the custom settlement loading methods I think.
Still if you think your information can contribute to this tutorial Rama. Why not share

[Bardo]

I have just found it is possible to add fords to a river map when you create an historical battle.

The command is used at 3 Alexander historical battles: Granicus, Hydaspes and Issus. They add these lines at the end of descr_battle.txt file (between the objectives and the scripts):

objectives

alliance 0
condition destroy_or_rout_enemy

alliance 1
condition destroy_or_rout_enemy
condition destroy_character Alexander, macedon

ford 73.068 175.606 152.283 173.619 50.000
ford 82.159 78.174 157.950 79.147 50.000
ford 67.747 -13.717 142.680 -16.713 50.000

script
descr_script.txt

From my tests, the meaning of the numbers seems:

ford [x1] [y1] [x2] [y2] [width]

the first coordinate is placed at one shore and the other coordinate at the opposite shore, both over the land. And it creates a river cross between those 2 points.

I have verified it works on historical battles, but it does not work on custom maps. I tested it both with AlexTw and vanilla RTW.

I have seen they also use this command, but I still did not find the purpose:

water_boundary_height_adjust -2.000

I'll update the turorial with this info.