Portugal - Information & Discussion

[Lazy Knight]

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Portugal
Portugal is strongest with its Light Infantry and its British-trained Line Infantry Regiments.

Portugal's horses are of small breed, and the harsh land does not yield many of them. The light infantry however is numerous and thus maybe the only one in Europe able to hold their ground in open fighting. Both professional and partisan infantry is available early and plenty. At first, Portugal must rely on its self trained infantry, but later, in order to keep the Spanish at bay, Britain helped to train Portuguese Infantry to be among the best disciplined and effective in Europe. The Portuguese Artillery also follows the British model.

[JMSlayer]

For light infantry, I found Portugals initial European roster to certainly be respectable. However, their researching rate is extremely slow, especially when compared with Russia's (the faction that I'm playing right now).

With improved Diplomacy, one can take the Dutch's Ceylon in the Indian Theater, and then give the Goa province to GB to get back in their favor, which saves you from naval headaches. I haven't played since the latest hotfix, but I imagine the Spanish War of Succession will give many opportunities to carve out a chunk of land in Europe (particularly Madrid) without immediately gaining the Ire of any of the great european powers other than, obviously, Spain.

[Notees]

I've always played Portugal (and I've played them numerous times, in all versions of IS) very diplomatically. The only real offensive maneuver I do is usually take Ceylon from UP, and sell Goa to other people for things and alliances. Otherwise, especially in 1.4, I avoid war with neighbors, especially France, to make sure i don't get out-naval'd. I like to harass north africa some, and sometimes I invade Hanover or Prussia for kicks. Eventually I capture part of main-land India or America. Often, if they're still around, I'd entice Mysore into an alliance and then DoW Marathas.

Their light infantry was nice, but I really loved their Fuzileiros. Compared to any neighbouring nations, they were total win. Ate through French and Spanish line like a knife through butter, especially with Platoon fire. My Army compositions would often consist of 1-2 units of their horribly expensive Cavalry, a general, 4 Fuzileiros, 1-2 Grenadarios, and 1-3 light infantry. Rarely ever used Artillery, and rarely ever used a full stacks. Seemed overkill and against my playstyle for the nation.

My favorite nation by far =)

[Society]

With the new versions, Portugal is pretty capable. They have a good navy, the best light infantry, and good line. All in all, however, they are extremely defensively oriented and don't have a ton of striking power.

They are, however, a good nation to play as when you're going for Prestige. They can become MASSIVELY wealthy if you can manage to dominate a few trade theaters. (which is easy)


edit: I noticed that the caçadores are just a cheap knock off of the spanish Cazadores in-game... Ditto for the Atiradores. The weird thing on these two is that the Spanish light infantry of the Napoleonic period (which these units are most likely based on) were more or less militia grade (they were handed brown pancho's and a white shirt... not real uniforms) compared to the First and Third caçadores who were the absolute elite of the Portuguese army and among the finest light infantry of the period. The only thing the Portuguese got going for them is that they have MORE caçadores than the Spanish have Cazadores in their units 140 vs 100... which is again odd because the total strength of numbers of caçadores was smaller than the various Cazadores regiments of Spain. (again, being that they were basically mass volunteers, one unit of Cazadores aside... I forget their name)


Part of what this causes is that the Portuguese one ace in the hole isn't really much of an ace... the defining characteristic of the faction... If nothing else, maybe change them to pander to the MYTHOS of the caçadores if nothing else, being smaller but ludicrously high quality skirmishers in a fashion to how Prussian line infantry are to other line.

Also, conveniently, the Green Jackets model can be simply painted brown, given a black hat, a green plume, and yellow cuffs and ...well ... you got yourself a true caçadores unit!

[Notees]

Good idea Society =)

Methinks Portugal is in need of colonial revamps, too. Their India and America roster is lackluster, even though they're one of two european factions that actually start with territory in India.

[Los San Patricios]

Imperium Globale (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=252117) has some new Portuguese units and reskins. You might want to add those units and/or use it as an inspiration for your own untis. It's historic accurate I think, or at least it has pictures showing how they looked.

[Ahiga]

They actually helped me with figuring out the Ordenanças.

[Society]

Could the caçadores/Cazadores be reworked? (The Portuguese "huntsman" being a very professional force, the Spanish ones not so much) Ditto for the Atiradores/Tiradores... This is not to say that the Spanish versions weren't capable (they were, to varying degrees...) but Spain didn't have the same emphasis upon light infantry that Portugal did. Portugal's light infantry were its bread and butter while Spain's light infantry was a supplementary force by comparison.

[Knight of Heaven]

Yes guys you can rely on imperium globale for that historical units. also on the note the elite light infantry Caçadores also served in the bristish army in manny campaings. And example later on in the napoleonic era under wellington.
Also i dont want to contradit what had been said, but the portuguese had also very good cavalry there is a horse race called the "lusitano" wich was one of the best horses for war, they were easy to use in military manouvers, to exercise, as well fast. On the note if you guys remind the Lord of the rings movies the horses used were of that race "lusitano" that said its true that the portuguese cavalry wasnt so high on numbers but their horses were very praised at the time aswell today they were meant for war specialy at the time. on the other hand the spanish als had good breeds with the Andalús. From Andálusia, near Sevilla.
Here is an example today. The rider is spanish, but his horse is a lusitano a portuguese horse.
Never mind the music though. couldnt find a better video.

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[Hellenikon]

I disagree, that horse showed in the video (independently about procedence) is trained to "the jineta". This school of riding was already very outdated by ETW timeframe, at that time it was not a riding for warfare any longer, but only for shows.

The jineta riding style was only employed during the middle ages and the early modern era, by for example the moors in Al-Andalus or the spanish in the campaigns of Italy. But very soon was left behind as gunpowder started to become more common in battles.

Here is a web just in case you want to read more about it: http://www.xenophongroup.com/EMW/article001.htm

The iberian people only conserved this style of riding to this day because of their traditional games, where it is still employed for show.

[Geronimo2006]

Portugal should start with primarily white-coated line-infantry and cavalry, as was historically the case in the early 18th century. See here. They only went en masse for blue after the Seven Years War because of Prussian influence. In the early 18th century, the white-coats of the main Catholic powers (France/Spain/Austria) were the primary influence on the Portuguese uniform. Later on, the uniforms changed as follows (see uniform pics from 1759).

[D.Sebastian]

Do you have the uniform templates of portuguese cavalry too?

[Geronimo2006]

Do you have the uniform templates of portuguese cavalry too?

Sadly not. But see descriptions at link in my above post. In the War of the Spanish Succession, they tended to wear white/grey coats with the following variations:

Horse
Prior to the new regulations of 14 Feb 1707, the Portuguese horse basically didn't have a uniform. "some had hats, others caps, and in all colours clad, so one would take them for a band of vagabonds rather than for trained horse" (Francis, 1975, p. 52, cited in Condray, 1992, p. 14).
After the new regulations the white grey uniforms started appearing, along with tri-corns and jack boots. Some units had breastplates.

Dragoon cap: Red turned up with light blue, edged with white fur. (Note, it is likely each man had both the Dragoon cap and a tricorn, as this was the practice in other armies.)

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[Geronimo2006]

I have sent everything I have on Portugal to Filitikos. I'll post most of it here:

Some Portuguese pictures (I'll send more later):

I have some more pictures. Before 1725 the marines (Armada) wore green coats with yellow cuffs. In 1725 it changed to green coats with red cuffs. Below is a sketch from an old book I have of an early Portuguese marine around 1721. The sash around the officer's waist is red with gold trimmings The source is "The Portuguese Army during the War of the Spanish Succession" by Pat Condray. The officer is wearing a large white wig with a tassle coming down onto his right shoulder, and has gold decorations on his green coat.:

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This is how I implemented it in the early period version of the Portuguese Unit Pack mod:

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My book also has this sketch of a painting of a Portuguese militiaman in 1710 (described as a "militiaman of the Tercios Auxilios") and I have added labels to describe where the colours are according to the text:

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I implemented this in my mod as follows (though I need to remove the epaulets - I may already have done so these screenshots were from ages ago):

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More pictures:

1762:
1st Braganca Infantry regiment:

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1759 expulsion of Jesuits. Note old-style uniforms of soldiers. Some regiments may still have worne the old style ones that didn't have lapels:

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20th century painting depicting 1759 expulsion of Jesuits from Portugal:

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Early-mid 1700s tile pictures:

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http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/9839/82043562.jpg

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From Manuel Ribeiro Rodrigues' private collection:
Army encampment (maybe mid 1700s):

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Graduation?:

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Turn of century 20th century paintings (by Artur Ribeiro) of generic Portuguese 18th century uniforms:
Grenadiers in 1732:

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Grenadier in 1740:

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Officers in 1732:

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Officer in 1740:

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Statue of Grenadier wearing mitre-cap (Portuguese grenadiers might have worne mitres before bearskins which were worne since at least the 1720s.
The mitre cap has a grenade symbol on the front plate and a cloth bag behind it.

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Drawings of statue by Manuel Ribeiro Rodrigues:

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Sr Rodrigues' book (translation by Google Translate) gives this opinion on the colours of the uniform worne by the Grenadier in the statue:

Cloth mazarine Alvadia or color, open the front without bands, with the back collar of his uniform and red color (it was one of the more distinctive colors in use), yellow brass buttons with buttonholes of wool or embroidery thread gold ( as the post) .. Cannons of red sleeves with three buttons of yellow brass, with buttonholes equal to the uniform. The coat has a button on each side from where a series of tweezers in order to make it more loose, thus giving, as was habit at that time, more freedom of movement for exercises militaires. The pockets are designed in the width direction and has eyelashes wide, much to the use of the time, and buttoned by three buttons embossed with a flower in the center with their buttonholes on it or gold wire of different model. the crack on the back of his uniform, has three false buttonholes on each side, embroidered in the same kind of wire shown above. Linen white socks and black cordovan shoes with buckles. The pockets for grenades, placed in tow, from left to right, and much decorated floral, both could be leather or cloth embroidery on it a yellow or golden wire, as the post was suspended by a wide leather belt white.

If you look closely at the grenadiers from the 1740 march picture, the musicians seem to be wearing mitres while the other grenadiers are wearing bearhats:

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Sr.Rodrigues' book mentions a Portuguese order for mitres in 1735.
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Mysterious drawing of a grenadier wearing a turban inside the arch of that gate with the statue on it. Not known whether this was an actual uniform or just fantasy:

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1755 picture: reconstruction of Lisbon after Earthquake and tsunami:

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Colonial units (1783):
1st Infantry Regiment of Goa:

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2nd Infantry Regiment of Goa:

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3rd Infantry Regiment of Goa:

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Goa Artillery Regiment:

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1790:
Mozambique Company of Sepoys and drummer:

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1788:
Mozambique Sepoy officer:

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Portuguese colonial units in Brazil:
Fig 291-2 (1st 2 pics): Regimento do Infantaria Auxiliar da Vila do Principe (1786).
Fig 293-4: Regimento do Infantaria Auxiliar da Arraial de Tejuco (1786),
Fig 295-6: Regimento de Infantaria Auxiliar de Lavras do Funil (1787),
Fig 297-8: Regimento de Infantaria Auxiliar de Juruoca (1787),
Fig.299: Regimento de Infantaria Auxiliar da Vila de Sao José (1784-1806).

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-More: Fig 319: 3° Regimento de Infantaria Auxiliar da Vila de Sao Joao D'El-Rei (1784). Fig 320-1 - 2° Terco de Infantaria Auxiliar do Inficionado (1786), Fig.322-3: Regimento de Infantaria Auxiliar de Guarapiranga (1780), Fig.324-5: Regimento de Cavalaria Auxiliar da Vila da Rainha (1786), Fig.326: Terco de Homens Pretos da Vila da Rainha (1786), 2° Terco de Infantaria do Termo do Inficionado (1786):

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Viceroy of India's cavalry guard 1755 (drawn by historian Manuel Ribeiro Rodrigues):

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Portuguese dragoon helmet (1780-1806?) closeups:

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Sr Rodrigues says the helmet was probably worne either by the Olivenca dragoons or the Royal Police Guard of Lisbon but we don't have any proof that such helmets were used in metropolitan Portugal.
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Reais Estrangeiros (Royal Foreigners - a Swiss regiment in Portuguese army) in 1763. Drawing by Manuel Ribeiro Rodrigues. Left to right are: Officer, drummer and NCO.
The regiment was disbanded in 1766 because of corruption.

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1777 uniform colours (as per 1764 Lippe reforms - text in Portuguese e.g. "bandas" = lapels, gola = collar, calcoes = trousers, canhoes = cuffs, forro = coat lining, casaca = coat, vestias = waistcoat, galoes e botoes = lace and buttons), S = Soldier, T = Drummer.

Drummers uniforms:

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Artillery uniforms ("T" = drummers uniforms, "S" = soldiers):

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Cavalry uniforms:

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Infantry uniforms:

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1783 uniform pictures:
NB: The men wearing red-sashes (usually around waist) below are the officers. The coat-colours are mostly Prussian-blue except for some drummers and the Armada (before 1797).
Infantry uniforms (1783). They are: First Row: 1st Porto Infantry regiment, Viana Infantry Regiment, Almeida Infantry Regiment. Second Line: Chaves Infantry Regiment, 1st Braga Infantry Regiment, 2nd Braga Infantry Regiment, Third row: Cascais Infantry Regiment, 1st Olivenca Infantry Regiment, and 2nd Olivenca Infantry Regiment:

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2nd Porto Infantry regiment (1783):

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More infantry from 1783: First row: 1st Elvas Infantry Regiment (1783), 2nd Elvas Infantry Regiment (1783). Second row: Peniche Infantry Regiment (1783), Schaumburg-Lippe (1783):

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Next are 4 Artillery regiments: First row: Porto Artillery Regiment (1783), Reino do Algarve Artillery (1783). Second row: Corte Artillery Regiment (1783), Estremoz Artillery Regiment (1783):

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Next are cavalry pictures (1783).The third figure in each picture below seems to be the musician. First row: Meklembourg Cavalry regiment (1783), Alcantara Cavalry Regiment (1783), Castelo Branco Cavalry Regiment (1783). Second row: Elvas Cavalry Regiment (1783), Moura Cavalry Regiment (1783), Olivenca Cavalry Regiment (1783). Third row: Almeida cavalry Regiment (1783), Chaves Cavalry Regiment (1783), Braganca Cavalry Regiment (1783).:

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Next are uniforms from 1764 but they are Lippe-reform uniforms and they were largely still in force for the rest of the century. Top-to-bottom: Artillery regiment of Sao Juliao de Barra, Cavalry regiment of Evora, Royal Corp of Engineers:

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1783 uniforms:
Porto artillery:

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1759 (and some 1754) uniforms:
We only have cloth-orders to go on and we don't fully know which colour went where but I've made this grid of cloth orders from Sr.Rodrigues book.Farda = Livery (coat), Canhoes = cuffs, Forro = coat linings, Vestia = waistcoat, calcao = trousers. Unidades = uniforms.
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So it seems that at this stage at least, most Portuguese uniforms were still white coated. But the pictures from 1762 suggest they were mostly blue by then.
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1717 description of Lisboa regiment wearing a light-blue uniform (in Sr.Rodrigues book which I have a copy of and translated):

1717: In 1717, the Lisboo Infantry Regiment, commanded by Colonel Pedro Goncalves da Camara Coutinho, when he embarked in the fleet of Count de Rio Grande, was dressed entirely in pale blue, with silver gallon three fingers wide and white feathers in tricórnio . The gallon of silver should be applied to cuffs of sleeves and pockets of his coat, as was customary at that time, though officials were also in embroidered waistcoat, and possibly in cuffs and caseados in uniform. This uniform was very unusual for a line unit, especially embroidery and feathers in his hat, however, were as expeditionary forces, should have given them more finesse to score with the presence of foreign troops.

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1715 (translated not perfectly by Google) reference to alvadia (white-grey), blue and green uniforms:

1715: The color Alvadia, aka off-white, was chosen for economic reasons, and not for looks, though, and unusually, continued to appear colored uniforms. In January 1715, was found dead in Lisbon a soldier blue jacket. Around the same time a Spanish writer, Diego Torres Vilarroel, a third soldier was Portuguese, called 'Los Ultramarinos' and had green uniforms that possibly was an infantry Marine.

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Colonial uniforms in India (1735-45) from cloth orders. I made this grid using information in Sr.Rodrigues' book. Livery = coat colour. Encarnado = Red:

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Duke of Cadaval on horseback (year unknown):

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Tras-os-Montes artillery 1762:

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1st Provincia do Minho Infantry Regiment 1762:

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2nd Provincia do Minho Infantery Regiment 1762:

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1st Valenca do Minho Infantry Regiment 1762:

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2nd Valenca do Minho Infantry Regiment 1762:

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Auxiliary Regiment (Terco) of Aveiro 1762 (Auxiliary Regiments were militias):

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Porto Cavalry militia 1762:

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3rd Porto Auxiliary Infantry Regiment:

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Portuguese Fusilier/Musketeer 1740 (from a 1740 book called "Milicia Pratica"):

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Portuguese Grenadier 1740 from same book:

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Portuguese soldiers marching 1740 from same book:

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Naval uniforms (1760s onwards):
Navy Field Marshall (Marechal de Campo) 1760-1801:

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Navy Sea Lieutenant (1760-1801):

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Cadet/Guardha Marinha (1761):

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Captain-General of the Navy (1761):

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Naval officer uniforms (1781):

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1st Armada Infantry Regiment (marines) 1764:

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2nd Armada Infantry Regiment (marines) 1764):

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Cadets/Guardha Marinha (1791):

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[Flikitos]

Thank you mate! I would really like to deserve you some +rep, but I can not for now.

[Lazy Knight]

took care of that for you

[Geronimo2006]

Here is a picture painted in 1760 of the execution of the powerful Tavora family for treason in 1759. It's the earliest contemporary colour picture we have of 18th century Portuguese uniforms:

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Note that the grenadiers are wearing bearhats. But according to Manuel Ribeiro Rodrigues, the Lippe reforms of 1764 abolished the bearhats and grenadiers instead wore tricornes until shakos were introduced later on.

[Geronimo2006]

More information. Manuel Ribeiro Rodrigues has told me in an email today that the Portuguese army didn't even wear gaiters over their stockings until 1762. This is very unusual historically, given they were introduced in Bavaria in 1683 and Denmark in 1712. He says the Portuguese wore shoes with buckles and socks.

[=Prince Nuada=]

Can we get a new unit roster in the first post please?
Cheers.

[Herr Doctor]

It is a bit irritating that the Portuguese colonial possessions are represented with only tiny Goa. Have you guys considered to use French Guyana to represent the remnants of Northern Brazil? Amapá or probably better Pará (as it was more established and populous) with the capital of Belém. At last it could slightly compensate the complete absence of the Portuguese holdings in Brazil that were the core of Portugal's economy, especially considering the importance of the gold and gems from Minas Gerais. I am pretty sure that France could survive without another of many American colonies in contrast to all Brazil that is unrepresented completely.