France - Information & Discussion

[IrishHitman]

Work in Progress : Philosophy techtree (France vs Great Britain)


France should have a weaker economical system than Great Britain, at least a less developed financial system.
On the other hand, France will have more Republican technologies and will earn more national prestige for social and natural sciences technologies.

J'approuve bien, et j'attends avec impatience pour la traduction des autres mots

[wangrin]

As it is not possible to have more than 8 technologies per building level and no more than 4 technologies per line, I've modified French and Brittish philosophy techtree :

FRANCE :


GREAT-BRITAIN :

[wangrin]

Chasseurs à cheval - 1791 ordnance

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Chasseurs à cheval - 1793-1800

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Guides d'Egypte - 1798-1801

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Guides aux colonies -

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An VII (1796) : Aide de Camps - plumet et brassard

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[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

You may already know them (first one for sure, already posted before)

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You know how the "bonnet d'ourse" was looking from behind now xD

Just can't wait to see them and play them, and I hope, give them more role than in reality xD

A small but interesting enough picture of Canadian militia, c1750

[wangrin]

Those plates come from "Historical Arms Serie n°18 : French soldier in colonial America" by René Chartrand



I think we could use 2 or 3 milicia units in North America :

• canadian milicia (mostly no uniform but a red cap, mostly act as light troops but with good melee attack and defence stats)
• Quebec militia / Montreal Milicia or City militia (uniform, mostly act as a standard milicia)

[SimonB1er]

Those plates come from "Historical Arms Serie n°18 : French soldier in colonial America" by René Chartrand





I think we could use 2 or 3 milicia units in North America :

• canadian milicia (mostly no uniform but a red cap, mostly act as light troops but with good melee attack and defence stats)
• Quebec militia / Montreal Milicia or City militia (uniform, mostly act as a standard milicia)

Is those have been worked on yet?

[wangrin]

Not yet, I have to work on British mid-XVIIIth cavalry models first.

[wangrin]

I've begin to search documents about the French navy.

FRENCH FLEETS

EARLY / MIDDLE / LATE

• 1st rank : 26 (with "extraordinary ranks" vessels such as Royal Louis) / - / 9 (118 guns)
• 2nd rank : 20 / ? (1st order), ? (2nd order) / 12 (80 guns), 60 (74 guns)
• 3rd rank : 50 / ? / -
• 4th rank : - / ? / -

FRENCH LINE VESSELS

1. 1690 :
   
   • 1st rank : length around 163 feet, 1rst deck battery : 14x36pdr cannons, 2nd deck battery : 15x18pdr cannons, 3rd deck : 14x12pdr cannons, artillery from poop deck, outermost deck, outside deck and forecastle allow to have 80 or 100 guns ;
   • 2nd rank : length around 145 feet : 13x24pdr, 2nd deck battery : 13 or 14x18 or sometime 12pdr cannons, artillery from poop deck, outermost deck, outside deck and forecastle allow to have 76 to 64 guns ;
   • 3rd rank : lenght around 135 feet, 1st deck battery : 12x24 or 18 or a mix of 24 and 18pdr, 2nd deck battery : 12x12pdr, artillery from poop deck, outermost deck, outside deck and forecastle allow to have 50 to 62 guns.
   
   
2. 1750 :
   
   • 1st rank : no 1st rank since 1742
   • 2nd rank - 1st order : length aound 165 feet, 1st deck : 15x36pdr, 2nd deck battery : 16x18pdr cannons, artillery from poop deck, outermost deck, outside deck and forecastle allow to have 80 guns ;
   • 2nd rank - 2nd order : length varying from 168 to 178 feet, 1st deck : 14x36pdr, 2nd deck battery : 15x18pdr cannons, artillery from poop deck, outermost deck, outside deck and forecastle allow to have 74 guns ;
   • 3rd rank : lenght around ? feet, 1st deck battery : 13x24pdr, 2nd deck battery : 14x12pdr, artillery from poop deck, outermost deck, outside deck and forecastle allow to have 64 guns.
   • 4th rank : lenght around ? feet, 1st deck battery : 12x18pdr, 2nd deck battery : ?x?pdr, artillery from poop deck, outermost deck, outside deck and forecastle allow to have ? guns, considered as too weak to fight in the line of battle
   
   
3. 1790 :
   
   • 118 guns vessels : length around 194 feet, 1rst deck battery : 16x36pdr cannons, 2nd deck battery : 17x24pdr cannons, 3rd deck : ?x12pdr cannons, artillery from poop deck, outermost deck, outside deck and forecastle allow to have 118 guns ;
   • 80 guns vessels : length around 180 feet : 15x36pdr, 2nd deck battery : 16x24pdr cannons, artillery from poop deck, outermost deck, outside deck and forecastle allow to have 80 guns ;
   • 74 guns vessels : lenght around 170 feet, 1st deck battery : 14x36pdr, 2nd deck battery : 15x18pdr, artillery from poop deck, outermost deck, outside deck and forecastle allow to have 74 guns.

Evolution through 120 years (from 1670 to 1790) can be resume to :

• progressive lengthening for hull allowing more scubbles (sabords)
• decrease of upper bodies (oeuvres mortes)
• establishment of 2 decks system over 3 decks one
• generalization of 36pdr for lower deck battery and 24pdr to 2nd deck battery for line vessels
• better design and conception, allowing a better naval performances and stability

[IrishHitman]

I believe the term is feet, not foots

[Herr Doctor]

Some nice embroidery elements for Guard Mousquetaires:

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And a very beautiful thing:




Some more photos: http://www.bertrand-malvaux.fr/p/579...1740-1750.html

[knight of virtue and valor]

Hey, uh, I have a CTD issue with france after 1724ish, after blitzkrieging the crap out of Britain. Could it be caused by the early advent of the USA caused by the destruction of Britain?

[wangrin]

Some link for mid-XVIIIth century infantry uniforms :
EL REGLAMENTO de 1757 EN FRANCIA, ( 1º Parte ), laminas de BOISSELIER
EL REGLAMENTO DE 1757 EN FRANCIA, ( 2º Parte ), laminas de BOISSELIER
EL REGLAMENTO DE 1757 EN FRANCIA, ( 3º Parte ), laminas de BOISSELIER
EL REGLAMENTO DE 1757 EN FRANCIA, ( 4º Parte ), laminas de BOISSELIER

[Rohi]

I understand IS currently relies on the 'no_forts' mod to enhance game-play via AI effectiveness.

However, I've noticed that two very significant French regions in New France do not have forts in the early campaign and this is very, very inaccurate. In particular, Quebec (Quebec City) remains the oldest fortified city in North America to this day - and for a reason. Considering the French colonies in New France were severely underpopulated in North America when compared to the British colonies, the French strategy became one of 'building forts' to protect their provinces.

Even before the French strategy of building forts in New France, the French created two very significant fortresses: Quebec (City) and Louisberg (Acadia / Nova Scotia). The purpose of these forts were to defend the the St. Lawrence River regions from British invasions thereby protecting the French trade interests in New France.

Notably, Louisberg eventually fell without a fight as the French more or less abandoned the fort to the British. Nevertheless 'The Battle for Quebec' (1759) or 'The Battle of the Plans of Abraham' became a significant turning point in North American history. Although the 1759 battle was fought outside the city, this is arguably considered a tactical blunder by the French General Montcalm. Furthermore, the city had undergone a period of heavy bombardment from across the river. The British forces of course led by General Wolfe.

Finally, The Battle of Quebec (1775) was another attempt by an opposing force to capture the city and change the balance of power in the region. This time the Yankee revolutionaries attempted to capture the fortified city from the British. ... They failed, arguably because of the strong city defences. One can argue that if the Yankees captured Quebec, all of 'Canada' would eventually fall.

In all, my point here is that an early France relies heavily on the use of forts to protect its colonies in New France. Removing these severely alters the historical reality. I understand the Battle AI is not well equipped to attack forts - however the French colonies in New France are already under a severe 'handicap' with regards to low populations when compared to the British, so removing the forts makes the French situation in New France rather dire indeed...

[Rohi]

Those plates come from "Historical Arms Serie n°18 : French soldier in colonial America" by René Chartrand



I think we could use 2 or 3 milicia units in North America :

• canadian milicia (mostly no uniform but a red cap, mostly act as light troops but with good melee attack and defence stats)
• Quebec militia / Montreal Milicia or City militia (uniform, mostly act as a standard milicia)

Hello wangrin!

I must say you and the rest of the IS modding team have created remarkable units. Although my post seems to be about three years late, I was wondering if there are any plans to add the militia units for France in its North American colonies? Based on what I can see from the latest French unit roster you posted there appears to be a relative gap concerning unique French colonial units especially when compared to the British. In particular, I've read that the marines ("Compagnies Franches de la Marine") were an integral aspect of the French military particularly for the defence of Quebec and the rest of New France.

If it helps, I've come across this useful source for the military of New France according to the Government of Canada. In particular, this passage (quoted below) suggests there might be justification for adding an 'elite guard unit' for Quebec, possibly restricted to 2-4 max recruitment.

The appointment of Louis de Buade, Count Frontenac, in 1672, resulted in the creation of a permanent corps of personal guards for the governor general. The energetic Count Frontenac used his guards as a kind of personal police and had them arrest several people, including the governor of Montreal, Nicolas Perrot. This gesture was thought excessive, and it led to Frontenac's recall in 1682. As a result of these abuses, it was specified that the only function of the Governor General's Guard was to ensure his personal safety.

From 1672 until the end of the French Regime, the guard consisted officially of "a company of 20 mounted men-at-arms, known as carabineers," including a captain, a lieutenant and a cornet. Reality, however, was often quite different. First, the men were on foot. Second, since their wages were included in the stipend allowed the governor general, they could become fictional at times, depending on his financial circumstances. By the late seventeenth century, governors general usually limited their guard to two or three men, adding sufficient reinforcements on holidays and ceremonial occasions to bring it up to full strength. Early in the eighteenth century, the Marquis de Vaudreuil had only two men in his retinue, while the wealthy Marquis de La Jonquière disembarked at the town of Quebec on August 4, 1749 with much pomp and circumstance, preceded by his entire company.

Little is known about the clothing and armaments of this guard. However, it appears that Count Frontenac's guards wore cassocks in 1673, as did those of the Marquis de Vaudreuil (1703-25), although there is no known description of their clothing. The Marquis de La Jonquière's guards were dressed upon their arrival at Quebec in 1749 in "green costumes, their muskets on their shoulders." This was obviously the Marquis' own livery, and seems to indicate that guards, after 1672, wore the colours and personal coats of arms of their masters, as was the custom in France.

Also, this article from the same Government of Canada historical source, suggests there might be justification for the creation of a unique 'marine' unit for the Acadia (Nova Scotia) region for New France. The particular unit was called "Compagnies franches de la Marine in Acadia" and according to this historical source, as of 1702 it had a 'permissible' strength of 200 soldiers.

Finally, I've been reading through that government of Canada source I've quoted in this post, and I noticed a passage which justifies my argument for enabling forts in particular for New France. Here is the quote:

The Iroquois were not the only enemies whom the French officers arriving during the 1680s would have to face. It was a decade during which the signs of imminent conflict between England and France were increasing. How could a British invasion be repulsed when the colony was spread out over such a wide area and defended by so few men? This was the critical question to which an answer had to be found.

From a defensive point of view, good fortifications remained the most important measure. However, when they existed at all in the colony, they were in a deplorable condition. It was decided therefore to restore Fort Frontenac and surround Montreal with a palisade, since these two places were most vulnerable to attack by the Iroquois, the allies of the English. Quebec had the advantage of being a natural fortress, but it still had no surrounding wall, only a few batteries, and a paltry fort, Château Saint-Louis, which doubled as the residence of the governor general. Although the court at Versailles believed at first that Quebec was safe from attack by sea, this view was revised in 1690, and the town was provided with surrounding fortifications consisting of 16 redoubts connected by a palisade. These were the first of numerous defensive works to enclose the town within walls.

Source: CHAPTER 5: The Compagnies Franches de la Marine of Canada | The Strategic Defence Of Canada

I hope this helps!

* I am away from my ETW and IS files at the moment (currently working in a lab), however I plan to edit the necessary startpos campaign file to give Quebec and Acadia 1st level fortifications. If anyone's curious with how this turns out, just let me know.

** Note: I play IS with the 'no_forts' mod disabled, therefore enabling forts.

[wangrin]

"Compagnie Franche de la Marine" come from France, as most of true military units in Americas up untill the Seven Years' War".
The reason was the very limited manpower available.

So, contrary to English colonies, far more populated, France cannot recruit regular units in North America, only some militia.
Moreover, we have to take into account our recruitment system : we use a ratio of 1/2 between the maximum historical number of each unit type and units in game.
For example, the maximum number of Swiss line infantry regiment was about 10 regiments during the Seven Years' War, so, France will be able to recruit only 5 "Swiss line infantry" units in game.
It become even more difficult when we speak about milicia, because they were not organized in regiments.
So, I have to find data about the number of militiamen and their origin (per regions) to calculate an equivalent of regiments. Solution being to eventually decrease the number of men in unit but increase the number of units.

But we are far from working on North America for France.


About fort, I agree that they should be back, even despite IA behaviour.
All the problem is to modify the startpos.
I suppose that, using the "hybrid startpos" process, it is possible to add fort, but I fear instabilities ingame.

[Steveholmes]

Person of Interest for scholar,

Chevalier de Saint-Georges







Connected to:

MulattoLouis XVIPalais RoyalFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges
Saint-Georges by Mather Brown, 1787.
Born	December 25, 1745 Baillif, Basse-Terre, Guadeloupe
Died	June 10, 1799 (aged 53) Paris, France

Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges(French: [sɛ̃.ʒɔʁʒ]; also Saint-George and Joseph Boulogne; December 25, 1745 – June 10, 1799)[1] was a champion fencer, a virtuoso violinist and conductor of the leading symphony orchestra in Paris. Born inGuadeloupe, he was the son of George Bologne de Saint-Georges, a wealthy planter, and Nanon, his African slave.[2] During the French Revolution, Saint-Georges was colonel of the 'Légion St.-Georges,'[3] the first all-black regiment in Europe, fighting on the side of the Republic. Today the Chevalier de Saint-Georges is best remembered as the first classical composer of African ancestry.
Youth and education

[wangrin]

3D reconstitution : Paris during the 18th century around the Grand Châtelet

[tomySVK]

Great video

There is a exhibition in Milan called La Maison du Roy 1690 - 1792. Photos from exhibition and other pictures here:

https://www.facebook.com/LaMaisonDuR...=page_internal

[Cro_Hunger999]

I've found a French scientist that may prove useful. Louis-Jean-Marie Daubenton (1716 - 1800) was a French naturalist and contributor to the Encyclopédie ou Dictionnaire raisonné des sciences, des arts et des métiers. He introduced the merino sheep into France.

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[Cro_Hunger999]

~Royaume de France~



Roi: Louis XIV (1638 - 1715)

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Gouvernement

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1. Secrétaire d'Etat des Affaires étrangères: Jean-Baptiste Colbert de Torcy (1665 - 1745): +2 for managment.

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2. Contrôleur général des Finances: Nicolas Desmarets, marquis de Maillebois (1648 - 1721): +3 for treasury.

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3. Chancelier: Louis II Phélypeaux de Pontchartrain (1643 - 1727): +2 for managment, +2 for treasury, +2 for justice, +1 for navy.

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4. Secrétaire d'État de la Guerre: Michel Chamillart (1652 - 1721): regular 3 stars.

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5. Secrétaire d'État de la Marine: Jérôme Phélypeaux de Pontchartrain (1674 - 1747): +2 for managment, +1 for treasury, +3 for navy.

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6. Gouverneur général: Louis-Hector de Callière (1648 - 1703): +2 for managment, +2 for army.

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Candidates:

1. Daniel François Voysin de La Noiraye (1654 - 1717): regular 3 stars.

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2. Guillaume Dubois (1656 - 1723): +1 for managment, +1 for treasury.

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3. Henri François d'Aguesseau (1668 - 1751): regular 3 stars.

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4. Claude Le Blanc (1669 - 1728): +1 for managment, +2 for army.

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5. Joseph Jean-Baptiste Fleuriau d'Armenonville (1661 - 1728): +2 for treasury.

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Regions held by France in the start year 1701

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Europe: France, Alsace-Lorraine.

America: French Guyana, Windward Islands, Lower Louisiana, Upper Louisiana, Michigan Territory, Algonquin Territory, Huron Territory, Upper Canada, New France, Arcadia, Newfoundland, Montagnais.

India: /.

14 regions in total.

Diplomatic relations

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Allies: Ottoman Empire (since 1699), Bavaria, Knights of St. John, Savoy (April 1701).

Trade partners: Ottoman Empire, Savoy, Venice, Papal States, Genoa, Knights of St. John, Morocco, Mughal Empire, Arcot.

At war with: Tunis, Tripoli, Pirates.

Public opinion towards other nations

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-Very friendly towards: Knights of St. John, Papal States, Bavaria, Ottoman Empire, Morocco

-Friendly towards: Savoy, Venice, Saxony, Poland, Courland, Russia, Mughal Empire, Arcot

-Indifferent towards: Scotland, Prussia, Genoa, Denmark, Sweden, Persia, Maratha Confederacy, Mysore

-Unfriendly towards: Portugal, Dutch Republic, Württemberg, Hesse-Kassel, Hannover, Iroquois Confederacy, Cherokee

-Hostile towards: Austria, Britain, Tunis, Tripoli, Pirates

Military commanders

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1. Nicolas Auguste de La Baume, marquis de Montrevel (1645 - 1716)

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2. Sébastien Le Prestre de Vauban (1633 - 1707)

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3. Anne-Jules de Noailles, comte d'Ayen (1650 - 1708)

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4. Claude-Louis-Hector de Villars (1653 - 1734)

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5. Louis-Joseph de Vendôme (1654 - 1712)

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6. Jacques Fitz-James, duc de Berwick (1670 - 1734)

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7. François de Neufville de Villeroy (1644 - 1730)

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8. Louis François de Boufflers (1644 - 1711)

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9. Henri d'Harcourt, marquis de Beuvron (1654 - 1718)

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10. Jacques François de Chastenet de Puységur (1656 - 1743)

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11. René III de Froulay, comte de Tessé (1648 - 1725)

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12. Louis-Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne (1674 - 1753)

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13. Jean-Thomas, comte de Bérulle (1655 - 1715)

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14. Philippe d'Orléans (1674 - 1723)

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15. Louis de France, duc de Bourgogne (1682 - 1712)

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16. Charles Auguste de Goyon de Matignon, comte de Gacé (1647 - 1729)

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17. Adrien Maurice de Noailles (1678 - 1766)

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18. Charles III Ferdinand de Mantoue (1652 - 1708)

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19. Claude François Bidal d'Asfeld (1665 - 1743)

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20. Charles-Armand de Gontaut-Biron (1663 - 1756)

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21. Charles-François-Marie de Custine (1670s - 1738)

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Naval commanders

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1. Louis-Alexandre de Bourbon (1678 - 1737)

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2. Victor Marie d'Estrées (1660 - 1737)

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3. René Duguay-Trouin (1673 - 1736)

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4. Pierre Le Moyne d'Iberville et d’Ardillières (1661 - 1706)

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5. Jean-Baptiste du Casse (1646 - 1715)

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6. Jean-Bernard Louis de Saint-Jean, baron de Pointis (1645 - 1707)

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7. François Louis Rousselet de Châteaurenault (1637 - 1716)

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8. Charles de la Boische, marquis de Beauharnois (1671 - 1749)

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Envoys

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1. Jean Antoine II de Mesmes, comte d'Avaux (1640 - 1709)

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2. Nicolas Mesnager (1658 - 1714)

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3. Charles Auguste d'Allonville de Louville (1664 - 1731)

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4. Jean-Louis d'Usson de Bonnac (1672 - 1738)

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5. Philippe de Courcillon de Dangeau (1638 - 1720)

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6. Jean-Baptiste Louis Picon (1663 - 1727)

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7. Philippe Néricault Destouches (1680 - 1754)

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Gentlemen

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1. Jules Hardouin-Mansart (1645 - 1708)

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2. Jean-Dominique Cassini (1625 - 1712)

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3. Abraham de Moivre (1667 - 1754)

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4. Bernard Le Bouyer de Fontenelle (1657 - 1757)

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5. Robert de Cotte (1656 - 1735)

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6. Jacques Gabriel (1667 - 1742)

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Priests

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1. César d'Estrées (1628 - 1714)

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